Really, there are two things about the Planet X storyline that make me angry.
1. the portrayal of Magneto.
Morrison totally killed Magneto. No wonder every Magneto fan won't like this story : Magnus is really, really ridiculous here. Under Morrison's reign, Magnus has become a drug-addict, a fascist, a mass murderer, a schizophrenic, a disfigured man, and a dinosaur !
Just imagine how you would feel if somebody completely destroyed your favourite character ?? If your character would be mocked ??
2. The characters's death.
[spoiler]It' pathetic to see Jean and Magnus fall like this ! Isn't there something the omnipotent Phoenix couldn't do about this whole mess ? Did the Phoenix return only to be killed a few minutes later ? [/spoiler]
It's so easy to destroy characters, it's so hard to CREATE interesting ones. Xorn was interesting.[spoiler]Jean and Magnus were fantastic. [/spoiler] Death in comics is necessary, but it's so sad to see them leave THAT way.
New X-Men General Discussion
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anthomaniac1023
- Bilge Rat
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:18 pm
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New X-Men General Discussion
Quote: "No wonder every Magneto fan won't like this story "
I wouldn't be so sure about that. There are a lot of Magneto fans who did.
[spoiler]Quote: "Did the Phoenix return only to be killed a few minutes later ?"[/spoiler]
Yes. Look at the second page. "I don't know how long they'll let me stay." This was the powers letting her die.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. There are a lot of Magneto fans who did.
[spoiler]Quote: "Did the Phoenix return only to be killed a few minutes later ?"[/spoiler]
Yes. Look at the second page. "I don't know how long they'll let me stay." This was the powers letting her die.
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Paty
- Deck Swabber
- Posts: 711
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New X-Men General Discussion
;mags:
The three remaining cuckoos as a hive mentality aren't even original with Morrison... He's picking up the three fates that Gaiman created for Sandman. I picked up on that when I red the Wizard preview of 151. The shrouded triune form of the three in one...one more steal. This one was one of the better concepts he stole.
Morrison mostly took every trite, stupid, exaggeration, plotline, and characature of the early silver age...the worst of the old...and MAGNIFIED it and said...Look, kiddies, this is comics! Your characters are worthless and mine are paramount.I mean...Cassandra Nova surviving as Cassie, or Missy Xavier???gimme a break!
And we can['t blame all this destruction ...especially of Magneto... all on Morrison.
Chris Claremont carefully crafted Magneto from the mindless villain that Satn had made to battle the X brats. He gave him a viable and interesting backstory...motivation for his actions. The backstory was sooo deep and thought and emothon provokng that Magneto became an icon for people wo thought that Xavier and his pie in the sky dream was foolish. Magneto was dealing with a real problem with a degree of rationality that was fascinating. He ran afoul of his emotions, admittedly his Achille's heel...but in many respects, he had a better grasp of the problem than Xavier. Claremont even rationally explained the change from maniac to rational man!!! Good storytelling that began the cult of magneto followers.
Then came internal politics. Harras came to power and wanted to wipe out Magneto's ethnic and historical background. the first thing he did was get rid of Claremont... then we had ten years of ups and downs in Magneto character disolvement and puerile storytelling...and still the character was so firmly established in fans minds as a complex character with underlying goodness and convoluted motivations that even the Hardass pogrom couldn't derail it. It wandered back and forth with writers trying to salvage the complex character in spite of Hardass...behind his back...or using clout, in some cases, that other writers and artists didn't have. The Alan Davis run was one such. Davis liked the Claremont Magneto and Hardass couldn't screw with Alan's take on Mags too much because Davis was a well known, well liked and prominent artist. It's sorta like saying "NO" to Jim Lee...not smart. .. if you want him to work for you and you DO want him to work for you cuz his stuff sells books!
People who take canon...even badly written canon ... as gospel...not to be screwed wit, but to be worked coherently into continuity, have got to be crazy here. By ending one story with the death of Jean and Mags and then, in the same book, skipping a hundred fifty years into the future, Morrison has effectively said that neither of these characters can be used for the forseeable future cuz HIS view of the MarvelUniverse doesnnn't contain them until at least 150 years later. RUBBISH! the only positive thing he could do here is to retcon his whole run out of existance, himself...but i am not gonna wait for THAT to happen! You betcha!
there was no coherent sotryline here...it has to be a dream and retconned as such. The art shows buildings coming and going in a dreamlike succession of up and down.. nothing makes sense.
Does anybody believe that a character who can survive the magnetic flux of the sun, bring herself and wolvie back from virtually it's surface and the attendant humongous magnetic fluxes..not to mention the magnetic storms, called sunspots, that shoot far into space and affect even our planet..ninety three million miles away!... does ANYBODY with a rational mind believe a character of this power could be brought down by a kick addled, depleated Magneto whose shields werennn't even strong enough to shield him from Scott's eyebeams...which he has done many times in the past??? the tiny little blip of power he is hitting her with wouldn't even replace the energy she expended getting herself and wolvie from the sun to earth..much less picking up the castaways and doing all the other stuff she has done...probably off panel, since current ideas of good storytelling seem to include a lot of important stuff happening off panel and being told about in badly written word balloons...sigh...
GIMME A BREAK!
Scott says that Magneto LIED! When did Magneto and scott ever have heart to heart talks? If anyone lied to Scott...it was Xavier. If Scott's whole life..enough to produce this outburst...was built on lies, they ceertainly weren't lies Magneto told Scott...so why is he taking out his frustrations on Magneto? Because Xavier's mind control won't let him take it out on the source...Xavier.
Or is this a not so subtle attempt to say that Magneto's back story is all lies.. that he isn't a holocaust surviver and all the wonderful complexity that engenders? Yeah.. that is probably where Marvel editorial, who, Harras-like are still trying to get rid of that pesky , wonderful backstory, is going!!!
Now they have set it up to do it either way.
1. Either it was all lies and Magneto wasn't what he said...or
2. Magneto...the Holocaust Magneto is dead and they can clone him and still have a Magneto to kick around...but one without his backstory that they have been trying to destroy for ten or more years.
The question is why they have been trying to do this? Jealousy of the writing skill that came up with such a solid, wonderful, complex character that most of them don't know what to do with??? Rampant anti semitism???? Rampant bigotry of ethnic and sexual differences?
And how much does corporate shenanigans play in this sordid mix? Is SONY or some other corporate entity buying Marvel and demanding that certain characters historical backstories be abolished? Or is it just stupidity?
The Planet X arc was so totally destructive of the existing status quo that it smacks of wholesale corporate sabotage. Simply because it came out of left field!
Morrison's run until that time had been lackluster and fractured, but not malicious and destructive. This last story arc was rabid. blammo! all of a sudden...or so it seemed. But I was warned over two years ago about what was going to happen to Mags...and every thing I was told has come true...so this has been planned...for over two years!
The fans were lied to and told to be patient it would all come out all right in the end. What? we have to wait a hundred and fifty years when all of the current storylines are dust for this to resolve itself? Gimme a break!
We were told ...and fans wanted to believe...that it would be done right. It wasn't. We were told to trust them...bend over and spread them wider, kiddo...now, beg for more...and be glad we allow you to buy our wonderful stuff!
PTUI
There are stupidities, glitches, mistakes, inconsistancies, misrepresentations ...and just plain bad writing ON EVERY PAGE of New X Men 150. And we have to endure the consequences of this arc for the next one hundred and fifty years????
YOU FREAKIN' GOTTA BE KIDDIN'!!!!
This isn't the REAL Magneto. Nor is it the real Jean/Phoenix. Nor is it the REAL anything. And if Marvelsays it is...there is no more REAL Marvel...it's just that simple.
We as readers and customers, and followers of characters and books for decades must not be treated as nonentities. The audience of any creative work is not disposable. and yet, by destroying the characters we are following, Marvel has declared war on it's diehard readership. New readers who don't want to be bothered with all that history are jubilant. They don't have to get into characters that are simply too adult and deep for them. what a waste!
What a horrible waste.
To have something so shining as the promise of Marvel , be dragged down into the dust by someone so unworthy from outside, and sabotage from within...cuz Morrison didnn't do this by himself...never think that. There was conspiracy and collusion on a grand scale,here. Morrison was a convient tool. A writer with his own agenda that could be used to forward the wishes of some internal vipers.
If Perlmutter wants to have a corporate entity that is worth anything, he better wake up and smell the rotten coffee that is brewing there. If he's gonna sell out to other interests, he may not care. Money is money...Green is green!
Only time will tell, I guess... Thank goodness I am old and probably won't be around to see something I loved so much come crashing down in such a disgusting manner. There are good deaths and bad deaths...Marvel is heading at breakneck speed for the latter.
Paty
:mags:
The three remaining cuckoos as a hive mentality aren't even original with Morrison... He's picking up the three fates that Gaiman created for Sandman. I picked up on that when I red the Wizard preview of 151. The shrouded triune form of the three in one...one more steal. This one was one of the better concepts he stole.
Morrison mostly took every trite, stupid, exaggeration, plotline, and characature of the early silver age...the worst of the old...and MAGNIFIED it and said...Look, kiddies, this is comics! Your characters are worthless and mine are paramount.I mean...Cassandra Nova surviving as Cassie, or Missy Xavier???gimme a break!
And we can['t blame all this destruction ...especially of Magneto... all on Morrison.
Chris Claremont carefully crafted Magneto from the mindless villain that Satn had made to battle the X brats. He gave him a viable and interesting backstory...motivation for his actions. The backstory was sooo deep and thought and emothon provokng that Magneto became an icon for people wo thought that Xavier and his pie in the sky dream was foolish. Magneto was dealing with a real problem with a degree of rationality that was fascinating. He ran afoul of his emotions, admittedly his Achille's heel...but in many respects, he had a better grasp of the problem than Xavier. Claremont even rationally explained the change from maniac to rational man!!! Good storytelling that began the cult of magneto followers.
Then came internal politics. Harras came to power and wanted to wipe out Magneto's ethnic and historical background. the first thing he did was get rid of Claremont... then we had ten years of ups and downs in Magneto character disolvement and puerile storytelling...and still the character was so firmly established in fans minds as a complex character with underlying goodness and convoluted motivations that even the Hardass pogrom couldn't derail it. It wandered back and forth with writers trying to salvage the complex character in spite of Hardass...behind his back...or using clout, in some cases, that other writers and artists didn't have. The Alan Davis run was one such. Davis liked the Claremont Magneto and Hardass couldn't screw with Alan's take on Mags too much because Davis was a well known, well liked and prominent artist. It's sorta like saying "NO" to Jim Lee...not smart. .. if you want him to work for you and you DO want him to work for you cuz his stuff sells books!
People who take canon...even badly written canon ... as gospel...not to be screwed wit, but to be worked coherently into continuity, have got to be crazy here. By ending one story with the death of Jean and Mags and then, in the same book, skipping a hundred fifty years into the future, Morrison has effectively said that neither of these characters can be used for the forseeable future cuz HIS view of the MarvelUniverse doesnnn't contain them until at least 150 years later. RUBBISH! the only positive thing he could do here is to retcon his whole run out of existance, himself...but i am not gonna wait for THAT to happen! You betcha!
there was no coherent sotryline here...it has to be a dream and retconned as such. The art shows buildings coming and going in a dreamlike succession of up and down.. nothing makes sense.
Does anybody believe that a character who can survive the magnetic flux of the sun, bring herself and wolvie back from virtually it's surface and the attendant humongous magnetic fluxes..not to mention the magnetic storms, called sunspots, that shoot far into space and affect even our planet..ninety three million miles away!... does ANYBODY with a rational mind believe a character of this power could be brought down by a kick addled, depleated Magneto whose shields werennn't even strong enough to shield him from Scott's eyebeams...which he has done many times in the past??? the tiny little blip of power he is hitting her with wouldn't even replace the energy she expended getting herself and wolvie from the sun to earth..much less picking up the castaways and doing all the other stuff she has done...probably off panel, since current ideas of good storytelling seem to include a lot of important stuff happening off panel and being told about in badly written word balloons...sigh...
GIMME A BREAK!
Scott says that Magneto LIED! When did Magneto and scott ever have heart to heart talks? If anyone lied to Scott...it was Xavier. If Scott's whole life..enough to produce this outburst...was built on lies, they ceertainly weren't lies Magneto told Scott...so why is he taking out his frustrations on Magneto? Because Xavier's mind control won't let him take it out on the source...Xavier.
Or is this a not so subtle attempt to say that Magneto's back story is all lies.. that he isn't a holocaust surviver and all the wonderful complexity that engenders? Yeah.. that is probably where Marvel editorial, who, Harras-like are still trying to get rid of that pesky , wonderful backstory, is going!!!
Now they have set it up to do it either way.
1. Either it was all lies and Magneto wasn't what he said...or
2. Magneto...the Holocaust Magneto is dead and they can clone him and still have a Magneto to kick around...but one without his backstory that they have been trying to destroy for ten or more years.
The question is why they have been trying to do this? Jealousy of the writing skill that came up with such a solid, wonderful, complex character that most of them don't know what to do with??? Rampant anti semitism???? Rampant bigotry of ethnic and sexual differences?
And how much does corporate shenanigans play in this sordid mix? Is SONY or some other corporate entity buying Marvel and demanding that certain characters historical backstories be abolished? Or is it just stupidity?
The Planet X arc was so totally destructive of the existing status quo that it smacks of wholesale corporate sabotage. Simply because it came out of left field!
Morrison's run until that time had been lackluster and fractured, but not malicious and destructive. This last story arc was rabid. blammo! all of a sudden...or so it seemed. But I was warned over two years ago about what was going to happen to Mags...and every thing I was told has come true...so this has been planned...for over two years!
The fans were lied to and told to be patient it would all come out all right in the end. What? we have to wait a hundred and fifty years when all of the current storylines are dust for this to resolve itself? Gimme a break!
We were told ...and fans wanted to believe...that it would be done right. It wasn't. We were told to trust them...bend over and spread them wider, kiddo...now, beg for more...and be glad we allow you to buy our wonderful stuff!
PTUI
There are stupidities, glitches, mistakes, inconsistancies, misrepresentations ...and just plain bad writing ON EVERY PAGE of New X Men 150. And we have to endure the consequences of this arc for the next one hundred and fifty years????
YOU FREAKIN' GOTTA BE KIDDIN'!!!!
This isn't the REAL Magneto. Nor is it the real Jean/Phoenix. Nor is it the REAL anything. And if Marvelsays it is...there is no more REAL Marvel...it's just that simple.
We as readers and customers, and followers of characters and books for decades must not be treated as nonentities. The audience of any creative work is not disposable. and yet, by destroying the characters we are following, Marvel has declared war on it's diehard readership. New readers who don't want to be bothered with all that history are jubilant. They don't have to get into characters that are simply too adult and deep for them. what a waste!
What a horrible waste.
To have something so shining as the promise of Marvel , be dragged down into the dust by someone so unworthy from outside, and sabotage from within...cuz Morrison didnn't do this by himself...never think that. There was conspiracy and collusion on a grand scale,here. Morrison was a convient tool. A writer with his own agenda that could be used to forward the wishes of some internal vipers.
If Perlmutter wants to have a corporate entity that is worth anything, he better wake up and smell the rotten coffee that is brewing there. If he's gonna sell out to other interests, he may not care. Money is money...Green is green!
Only time will tell, I guess... Thank goodness I am old and probably won't be around to see something I loved so much come crashing down in such a disgusting manner. There are good deaths and bad deaths...Marvel is heading at breakneck speed for the latter.
Paty
:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
-
Northstars Love
- Lookout
- Posts: 970
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- Location: Pair A Dice Island
New X-Men General Discussion
I didn't believe for one minute Paty that Jean could have been taken out so easily. Hell, it took the whole X Team to try to defeat her the first time around. Yes. It wasn't Jean really, but the Phoenix Force that created a copy of her. Phoenix was only defeated because she sacraficed herself because she knew she had the potential to destroy the universe. She consumed a whole sun. Which in turn killed millions of lives and destroyed planets that would have exisited millions of years later. This was some awesome story writing on Claremont's part!
No. Magneto couldn't have killed Jean off so easily. She's a telepath. And Magneto wasn't wearing his helmet to shield him from her thoughts. Why Morrison didn't think of this we may never know.
And the real Magneto isn't dead. He'll be back!
No. Magneto couldn't have killed Jean off so easily. She's a telepath. And Magneto wasn't wearing his helmet to shield him from her thoughts. Why Morrison didn't think of this we may never know.
And the real Magneto isn't dead. He'll be back!
New X-Men General Discussion
I knew you'd be furious, Paty !
I am, too.
I'd like to share your optimism about the return of the real Magneto one day. The complex and magnificent one.
Yeah, only time will tell...
I am, too.
I'd like to share your optimism about the return of the real Magneto one day. The complex and magnificent one.
Yeah, only time will tell...
New X-Men General Discussion
There are just so many things wrong with the entire title. If these were Morrison's own creations, then I might halfway like it. But they aren't. He didn't respect the characters as they were established.
"Fresh" and "different" interpretations don't mean throwing everything that came before it out. Boston-born/raised Emma with a British accent? Star-eating cosmic-entity Phoenix taken down by a magnetic pulse? Bitchy dominatrix-ish Emma falling in love with notoriously tight-wad Scott?
Characters should develop. They should learn from their past experiences and move on. Evolve. That enrichens them and makes sure that they grow. It doesn't mean that they have to become a completely different person altogether. It means the characters are the same person looking at something with a new understanding they didn't have before.
I don't like to nitpick, but there were so many things wrong with this run from the getgo. Some ideas I liked. Others I didn't. And others were so terrible that I wanted to strangle this guy. The idea of a group of sentinels sneaking up on one of the most highly-advanced nations in the world, with more superpowered people than anywhere else, and taking them completely unawares, for one thing. The idea that the United Nations and the worlds governments would just shrug and turn the other way without considering the possibility that such constructs might be used to wipe-out New York, Paris, or Leichtenstein. Yes, it was shocking, but was it viable? Not at all. Neither was Jean and Wolverine being stuck on a piece of scrap metal flying 93 million miles in less than 24 hours. These ideas are definitely shocking and different, but they don't work!
There's also being irreverent of the past. The Phoenix entity (and its arguable whether it's really an entity and not Jean at her potential) consumed a star and destroyed an entire system. It stopped the universe from being destroyed in the M'Kraan crystal. Jean Grey - post phoenix and resurrection - flew out into space with no space gear, oxygen tank, or anything... and stabilized a star. In issues that MORRISON WROTE HIMSELF, she sped up the atoms and oxygen molecules in the air around Cassandra Nova. Phoenix came and went as it pleased - usually when Jean was pissed. Now, Wolverine has to "release" Phoenix by killing Jean? And this cosmic entity who emerged from the center of the sun and repaired its body is going to be taken down by a electromagnetic surge to the brain? Not only does it not work - based on a book Morrison wrote himself - but it completely ignores everything that came before it.
They really dropped the ball when they let this guy get a book without any editorial direction whatsoever. These things I pointed out - and much more I didn't - would have never got past a competent editor whose job it is to make sure these things are viable. (Note I said "to make sure these things are viable"... I didn't say "to dictate the stories to the writer..." (ala Joe Kelly) or "to make the writer change the story halfway into it" (like CC on his second run)) There are ways to bring a "new feeling" to the X-Books without disregarding the role of an editor altogether.
I just don't understand why Marvel can't find a happy medium between too much control and too little. No wonder DC is snapping up these people on exclusive contracts left and right. The working conditions are probably better. You know it's sad when Marvel is so desperate for new writers that they invite fans to submit materials. (Not that it's all bad... I'd love to write for a comic book... but I'd have to question why they changed the unsolicited submissions policy...)
Just wait until 2013 when the sentinels take over...
"Fresh" and "different" interpretations don't mean throwing everything that came before it out. Boston-born/raised Emma with a British accent? Star-eating cosmic-entity Phoenix taken down by a magnetic pulse? Bitchy dominatrix-ish Emma falling in love with notoriously tight-wad Scott?
Characters should develop. They should learn from their past experiences and move on. Evolve. That enrichens them and makes sure that they grow. It doesn't mean that they have to become a completely different person altogether. It means the characters are the same person looking at something with a new understanding they didn't have before.
I don't like to nitpick, but there were so many things wrong with this run from the getgo. Some ideas I liked. Others I didn't. And others were so terrible that I wanted to strangle this guy. The idea of a group of sentinels sneaking up on one of the most highly-advanced nations in the world, with more superpowered people than anywhere else, and taking them completely unawares, for one thing. The idea that the United Nations and the worlds governments would just shrug and turn the other way without considering the possibility that such constructs might be used to wipe-out New York, Paris, or Leichtenstein. Yes, it was shocking, but was it viable? Not at all. Neither was Jean and Wolverine being stuck on a piece of scrap metal flying 93 million miles in less than 24 hours. These ideas are definitely shocking and different, but they don't work!
There's also being irreverent of the past. The Phoenix entity (and its arguable whether it's really an entity and not Jean at her potential) consumed a star and destroyed an entire system. It stopped the universe from being destroyed in the M'Kraan crystal. Jean Grey - post phoenix and resurrection - flew out into space with no space gear, oxygen tank, or anything... and stabilized a star. In issues that MORRISON WROTE HIMSELF, she sped up the atoms and oxygen molecules in the air around Cassandra Nova. Phoenix came and went as it pleased - usually when Jean was pissed. Now, Wolverine has to "release" Phoenix by killing Jean? And this cosmic entity who emerged from the center of the sun and repaired its body is going to be taken down by a electromagnetic surge to the brain? Not only does it not work - based on a book Morrison wrote himself - but it completely ignores everything that came before it.
They really dropped the ball when they let this guy get a book without any editorial direction whatsoever. These things I pointed out - and much more I didn't - would have never got past a competent editor whose job it is to make sure these things are viable. (Note I said "to make sure these things are viable"... I didn't say "to dictate the stories to the writer..." (ala Joe Kelly) or "to make the writer change the story halfway into it" (like CC on his second run)) There are ways to bring a "new feeling" to the X-Books without disregarding the role of an editor altogether.
I just don't understand why Marvel can't find a happy medium between too much control and too little. No wonder DC is snapping up these people on exclusive contracts left and right. The working conditions are probably better. You know it's sad when Marvel is so desperate for new writers that they invite fans to submit materials. (Not that it's all bad... I'd love to write for a comic book... but I'd have to question why they changed the unsolicited submissions policy...)
Just wait until 2013 when the sentinels take over...
solomon
http://xmbb.net
http://xmbb.net
New X-Men General Discussion
Hey, you know what ?
I really enjoyed New X-Men #151. It's amazing how Morrison can get on my nerves...and then surprise me !
Well, perhap's it's the idea of multiple Nightcrawlers bamfing around that caught me by surprise.
And Mark Silvestri...so talented ! Waow !!
It's great to see him back to the X-world -even for a short amount of time.
I really enjoyed New X-Men #151. It's amazing how Morrison can get on my nerves...and then surprise me !
Well, perhap's it's the idea of multiple Nightcrawlers bamfing around that caught me by surprise.
And Mark Silvestri...so talented ! Waow !!
It's great to see him back to the X-world -even for a short amount of time.-
Winged Outlaw
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Wow... this place is freakin dead
Hmm... this forum seems pretty dead in the water...
But anyway, New X-Men 152 came out... and hot damn ain't it awesome
But anyway, New X-Men 152 came out... and hot damn ain't it awesome
-
bluefooted
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New X-Men General Discussion
Um, I thought the art was awesome! I especially liked all the Crawlers. I thought they were pretty cute, albeit evil. Is that wrong?
-
Crawler
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New X-Men General Discussion
Silvestri's art is, indeed, awesome.
It just feels like Morrison wasn't enjoyng himself at all. It just seems as if it was a chore to write. It lost all the subtlety and fun of his earlier run.
I was very pleased at #151. I thought it was quite good, so I raised my hopes for the arc. #152 was a let down, IMO.
I actually doubted that Morrison wrote it while I was reading it.
So this is the third arc in a row that I'm not really enjoying the writing on, though Silvestri's artwork here is AWESOME for the most part, and I'm a BIG fan of Bachalo, so I did like two of the three arcs.
I'll post a more in-depth critique tomorrow, when I'm more awake.
It just feels like Morrison wasn't enjoyng himself at all. It just seems as if it was a chore to write. It lost all the subtlety and fun of his earlier run.
I was very pleased at #151. I thought it was quite good, so I raised my hopes for the arc. #152 was a let down, IMO.
I actually doubted that Morrison wrote it while I was reading it.
So this is the third arc in a row that I'm not really enjoying the writing on, though Silvestri's artwork here is AWESOME for the most part, and I'm a BIG fan of Bachalo, so I did like two of the three arcs.
I'll post a more in-depth critique tomorrow, when I'm more awake.
This message brought to you by the letter C.
Zack: I'm pretty sure our soul is composed of a series of toy commercials that ran from 1984-1988. When we die Hasbro does with us what they please.-
Northstars Love
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New X-Men General Discussion
I enjoyed it! Silvestri's art is awesome as Chris saids! *Does a dance 
* This arc is a lot better than Morrison's last I can tell you that.
I kinda like the idea of all those Crawlers roaming about.
Even tho they are on the side of the Beastie.
* This arc is a lot better than Morrison's last I can tell you that. I kinda like the idea of all those Crawlers roaming about.
Even tho they are on the side of the Beastie.-
Winged Outlaw
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New X-Men General Discussion
It felt a little slow to me because so much time was spent on the Proud People, who at least at this point seemed to be introduced for little reason other than to die. Unfortunate, and it was a waste of several pages that could've moved the plot along further. I'm anticipating where this is going, but I'll agree that after two issues that were mostly set-up, I want to see some stuff actually happen.
Beast being Sublime though? That definitely interests me.
Beast being Sublime though? That definitely interests me.
-
Winged Outlaw
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- Posts: 115
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:18 pm
- Title: Banned
New X-Men General Discussion
Oh just kill me now... Chuck Austen writing about Cyclops' and Emma's relationship?
I am very afraid...
I am very afraid...
New X-Men General Discussion
I really enjoy New X-men. In fact I have enjoyed every issue of GM's New X-men. And that is a first for me to actually enjoy every single issue (so far) of someone's run.
There are two issues to go so I guess we'll see if I enjoy those like I have all the others.
I will admit it will be somewhat jarring to go from GM to Austen. But though there are rumors, I wouldn't be surprised if Austen does get New X-men and he takes the reigns of this book.
Mike
There are two issues to go so I guess we'll see if I enjoy those like I have all the others.
I will admit it will be somewhat jarring to go from GM to Austen. But though there are rumors, I wouldn't be surprised if Austen does get New X-men and he takes the reigns of this book.
Mike
New X-Men General Discussion
Don't be affraid.Originally posted by Winged Outlaw
Oh just kill me now... Chuck Austen writing about Cyclops' and Emma's relationship?
I am very afraid...
Just shed a single tear for Emma's loss of personality, as she's transformed into an Austen Cow. She'll be the same as any other Austen written female, in need of a man to surgically attach herself to, your average damsel-in-emotional-distress. And don't worrry about subtlety, that's out of the window as well, after all, you remember how subtle Lorna's personality was written in Uncanny, expect that same level of subtlety with Emma.
I'll bet Austen will have a story where she's revealed to be the daughter of that marauder called Prism.
-
Paty
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New X-Men General Discussion
:mags:
Hm...to each his won, said the old lady as she kissed the cow...
I prefer the plotting and writing of chuck Austen to Morrison any day. At least Chuck tells a story and isnn't using vignettes in place of a story. I don't agree with his premise that Lorna is Magneto's daughter...I think she is as deluded as she was way back when...and magnetic powers do not necessarily make for a relationship to Mags...it's just another power, people... are all winged characters related to Warren Worthington??? Does this mean Cannonball's brother is related to Warren? or even...gosh...that the black knight's flying horse is related to Warren??? Or that Warren will soon start farting fireballs?
No...I don't agree with everything Chuck writes...but he DOES write. He weaves a storyline with multiple factors and facets...which is more than I can say for the blatant temper tantrum that Planet X was. That was pitiful! If you look at it from a distance, you can see that something changed between 146 and 147. Was that the time that Morrison's friend Mark waid was being dissed by Jemas and Marvel to the point of him finally leaving? Was the destruction of Scott, Jean, and Magneto...as well as the warping of the other characters in a completely incomprehensible "Kick" trip, Morrison's revenge? Let's ruin major characters and make it so they cannot recover them..let's tear the heart outta the X Men characters...and their ongoing shot at popularity and stab Claremont in the heart as he watches beloved characters he created or developed be ruined or destroyed! Let's tell the ed in chief that we will sign a new two year contract while secretly goting to DC and signing with them exclusively so that we can embarass Marvel at San diego...and get our childish revenge on Marvel by pulling the rug out from under Joey the Q in public! Let's tear down Marvel as we leave and leave smoldering ruins wherever possible!
Gee...what wonderful subtlety...It is so blatant it is pathetic!!! when you stand back and look at the timelines and when stories were written and what was happening at the time. then under cover of not being edited, you blindside the nasty company that dissed your friends...Waid and Byrne...take that! you nasty corporate devils!
Puerile...if it weren't real life and characters and a company we have loved for decades, it would make a wonderful soap opera!
I am so totally glad Morrison is gone...and I hope they quash that Emma/Scott thing for the non existant relationship it is...seduction is not a relationship...it is onlly pretending to be a relationship until the seduced wakes up and smellls the burnt coffee.
With Chris back and the official word from corporate headquarters... that just woke up and saw their merchandisable characters...their DECADES LONG POPULAR merchandisable characters... trashed, that the characters are to return to the classic characterization...the Claremont characterization...we shall, hopefully, see some semblance of sanity return to the X books! the Claremont era was the most wildly successful era in Marvel's history...and, with good storytelling, could be again now that they have Chris back. Chris weaves storylines that can snare you faster than Spidey's webs!
It wasn't until Hardass forced Claremont off the books and then began the warpage of the characters that marvel began steadily losing the diehard, loyal fanbase...and over time went from a two hundred thousand plus print run as a normal thing to less than a hundred thou per month on titles like Uncanny and New! Yeah..OK... the big speculation bubble busted...but that only affected the million or more sales...Core books should have kept their core readership...but they didn't... and that was because the writing was being controlled by a bigotted few. it had lost something...complexity...characterization...coherency...and it still hasn't gotten it back to any great degree...because the one who gave it that stability was Chris Claremont...and he was having to write as others wished him to write...not as he WANTED to write or COULD write. The novelization of the second movie told ya that...It was classic Claremont...and except for last minute changes made after the book was written, it embellished and enriched the movie.
Chris can still write when he's allowed to...and I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what he is gonna do to fix the unholy mess that has been allowed to sully the books of X dom. I am not talking about Austen...his stuff is at least readable! I am talking about the excremental pile that was New X men...especially the last two arcs...the temper tantrum! of a two year old supposed adult!
Sheesh!
Paty
:mags:
Hm...to each his won, said the old lady as she kissed the cow...
I prefer the plotting and writing of chuck Austen to Morrison any day. At least Chuck tells a story and isnn't using vignettes in place of a story. I don't agree with his premise that Lorna is Magneto's daughter...I think she is as deluded as she was way back when...and magnetic powers do not necessarily make for a relationship to Mags...it's just another power, people... are all winged characters related to Warren Worthington??? Does this mean Cannonball's brother is related to Warren? or even...gosh...that the black knight's flying horse is related to Warren??? Or that Warren will soon start farting fireballs?
No...I don't agree with everything Chuck writes...but he DOES write. He weaves a storyline with multiple factors and facets...which is more than I can say for the blatant temper tantrum that Planet X was. That was pitiful! If you look at it from a distance, you can see that something changed between 146 and 147. Was that the time that Morrison's friend Mark waid was being dissed by Jemas and Marvel to the point of him finally leaving? Was the destruction of Scott, Jean, and Magneto...as well as the warping of the other characters in a completely incomprehensible "Kick" trip, Morrison's revenge? Let's ruin major characters and make it so they cannot recover them..let's tear the heart outta the X Men characters...and their ongoing shot at popularity and stab Claremont in the heart as he watches beloved characters he created or developed be ruined or destroyed! Let's tell the ed in chief that we will sign a new two year contract while secretly goting to DC and signing with them exclusively so that we can embarass Marvel at San diego...and get our childish revenge on Marvel by pulling the rug out from under Joey the Q in public! Let's tear down Marvel as we leave and leave smoldering ruins wherever possible!
Gee...what wonderful subtlety...It is so blatant it is pathetic!!! when you stand back and look at the timelines and when stories were written and what was happening at the time. then under cover of not being edited, you blindside the nasty company that dissed your friends...Waid and Byrne...take that! you nasty corporate devils!
Puerile...if it weren't real life and characters and a company we have loved for decades, it would make a wonderful soap opera!
I am so totally glad Morrison is gone...and I hope they quash that Emma/Scott thing for the non existant relationship it is...seduction is not a relationship...it is onlly pretending to be a relationship until the seduced wakes up and smellls the burnt coffee.
With Chris back and the official word from corporate headquarters... that just woke up and saw their merchandisable characters...their DECADES LONG POPULAR merchandisable characters... trashed, that the characters are to return to the classic characterization...the Claremont characterization...we shall, hopefully, see some semblance of sanity return to the X books! the Claremont era was the most wildly successful era in Marvel's history...and, with good storytelling, could be again now that they have Chris back. Chris weaves storylines that can snare you faster than Spidey's webs!
It wasn't until Hardass forced Claremont off the books and then began the warpage of the characters that marvel began steadily losing the diehard, loyal fanbase...and over time went from a two hundred thousand plus print run as a normal thing to less than a hundred thou per month on titles like Uncanny and New! Yeah..OK... the big speculation bubble busted...but that only affected the million or more sales...Core books should have kept their core readership...but they didn't... and that was because the writing was being controlled by a bigotted few. it had lost something...complexity...characterization...coherency...and it still hasn't gotten it back to any great degree...because the one who gave it that stability was Chris Claremont...and he was having to write as others wished him to write...not as he WANTED to write or COULD write. The novelization of the second movie told ya that...It was classic Claremont...and except for last minute changes made after the book was written, it embellished and enriched the movie.
Chris can still write when he's allowed to...and I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what he is gonna do to fix the unholy mess that has been allowed to sully the books of X dom. I am not talking about Austen...his stuff is at least readable! I am talking about the excremental pile that was New X men...especially the last two arcs...the temper tantrum! of a two year old supposed adult!
Sheesh!
Paty
:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
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anthomaniac1023
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New X-Men General Discussion
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Morrison's scripts finished or near finished back in 2002? I can see that you don't like his recent work on the title, but that doesn't mean he intentionally wrote it poorly.
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Paty
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New X-Men General Discussion
:mags:
Yes, this is true...or at least, it is purported to be true. Morrison supposedly sat down and outlined his plots for the coming two year run. Not scripts, you understand...but the general direction he was taking the series...the general PLOTLINES... and this recieved approval.
and Morrison'ts run was by no means across the board bad. Indeed, he followed true to form. He starts out well, with interesting characters... like the turely evil Cassandra Nova... and precepts. then, about halfway through, he seems to lose interest in his series and from there you can see a declination in the quality of the writing. But the style and tone of the stories was consistant...even in decline. while the style became progressively fractured and the storytelling became les coherent, the tone of the books remained fairly even...until the Planet X arc...which was an explosion of atomic magnitude.
Now, the holocaust of that arc, combined with his escape from Marvel as announced at San Diego, and the surprise with which it floored Quesada, leads speculation in the direction of premeditation...at least it does to me. and the timeline here is critical.
One must never suppose that the storylines are not affected by the private lives of the writers. The storylines are given depth and life when the emotions and experiences of the writer are brought to bear. That's part of being a good writer. One can use personal sorrow or joy or insights to enrich a character or to develop a character...t or o motivate a whole storyline.
The abrupt change of tone in the storytelling bespeaks a personal rage or a turmoil that is reflected in that storyline. And I believe that it was a deviation from the original plot submitted for approval and approved two hears earlier. I think Morrison knew it would blindside Marvel and maneuvered to make good his escape before the fact... and that is what we saw at San Diego...morrison making his escape. If he hadn't done that, I might not have questioned his motives about the Planet X arc so stridently. I might not have thought it was done with ill will...but I do. I cannot help it. All clues lead to that conclusion...and the smoking gun is his flight from Marvel.
Quesada, by all reports, went to SDCC ready to announce that Morrison was staying another two years. We had heard this through the grapevine...that Morrison was to be signed to another two year contract. A goodly number of us were going into mourning...and Planet X hadn't even come out yet...so we didn't have an inkling of the horror to come!
Do I think a shakeup story was planned for Planet X? Yeah, I do...I think Morrison was gonna do something drastic to Mags...but leave him alive and possibly enraged or scarred or something to that effect...pushing the EEEEvil Magneto that certain aspects of editorial had been working towards for over a decade. It was to be their "coup de grace" against the Claremont Magneto fans.
But I think something happened to piss off Morrison. I don't know what that was...but I think he took out his disaffection by making the Planet X arc as destructive as possible...and not letting Marvel have a chance to logically retcon it by starting the hundredfifty years later thing in the last two pages of 150. I think Marvel got blindsided. their reactions indicate that. They may have been contractually obligated to print all of Morrison's run, otherwise why the Planet X and here comes the future arcs weren't shitcanned is beyond me. Planet X was so offensive...especially to the Jewish readers who, although he was an antagonist, loved Magneto as a character...a charasmatic character... with a point to his actions. The wholesale destruction of two major, popular characters...Jean and Mags... the breakdown of Scott's character...the fracturing of the Professor's ability...as well as other blatant anomalies all point to a premeditated disruption of cosmic proportions. That Morrison opted not to stay around and DEAL with the consequences of this disruption speaks volumes about possible premeditated motives.
If you have ever taught in the public school system, you very quickly learn to look for underlying behaviorial clues to outbreaks and anti-social behavior. You can identify potential troublemakers by their behavior pretty rapidly. You know who is doing their homework and who is not...and who is copying from others. And when a blowup occurrs, quite often you can piece together what happened...especially if the culprit hasn't covered his tracks well...or planned ahead.
I don't think the Planet X arc was planned ahead...at least not the one we saw. I think it was an explosion that was triggered by something else...and the escape was necessitated by what he was gonna do to the Marvel Universe...or more correctly, the X Universe.
By other creator's admissions, the rest of Marvel was not "clued in" as to what was gonna happen so their books could deal with it in a realistic matter...by getting their characters outta the way or sending them off on other errands...or whatever. When the Planet X blowup occurred in 147 and fans started to yell "Hey what about all the other heroes in NY?" someone..either Morrison or editorial... hastily inserted a lame "...Magneto made a phone call and lured all the superheroes to Brooklyn" !!! gimme a break! Later on, editorial , stuck with this dungheap of a storyline, tried to do some damage control. and you can see where word balloons and blurbs to explain anomalies were inserted if you look with a discerning eye.
That's why I say that the key to understanding what happened with this thing and why it happened depend on the timelines of what was happening at Marvel at the time...and the temperment of the people involved.
Planet X wasn't just another story...not even another explosive story to shake up the status quo. It was Morrison riding a plane into the Marvel edifice...and bailing out at the last minute. KNOWING the destruction that was gonna ensue...and not wanting to be caught up in it...or suffer the consequences of that premeditated destruction.
The kid throwing a rock through the school window. Stand back and LOOK...you can spot thim a mile away, if you know what to look for and how and where to look.
It's a moot point now, of course. Morrison is GONE!!! Marvel will not remain "in the future" Nor will it allow this wholesale destruction to endure. The major characters that were killed or subverted will return and be revived and renewed...and it won't take the Phoenix power todo it...like Jean bringing back Emma...even though her "power doesn't work that way"...riiiiiight... That's the joy of comics. No matter how bad it gets, you can always retcon it away if you are a good enough writer...and Claremont is a good enough writer...after all, he built the X empire once...he can do it again.
My money is on him!
Paty
:mags:
Yes, this is true...or at least, it is purported to be true. Morrison supposedly sat down and outlined his plots for the coming two year run. Not scripts, you understand...but the general direction he was taking the series...the general PLOTLINES... and this recieved approval.
and Morrison'ts run was by no means across the board bad. Indeed, he followed true to form. He starts out well, with interesting characters... like the turely evil Cassandra Nova... and precepts. then, about halfway through, he seems to lose interest in his series and from there you can see a declination in the quality of the writing. But the style and tone of the stories was consistant...even in decline. while the style became progressively fractured and the storytelling became les coherent, the tone of the books remained fairly even...until the Planet X arc...which was an explosion of atomic magnitude.
Now, the holocaust of that arc, combined with his escape from Marvel as announced at San Diego, and the surprise with which it floored Quesada, leads speculation in the direction of premeditation...at least it does to me. and the timeline here is critical.
One must never suppose that the storylines are not affected by the private lives of the writers. The storylines are given depth and life when the emotions and experiences of the writer are brought to bear. That's part of being a good writer. One can use personal sorrow or joy or insights to enrich a character or to develop a character...t or o motivate a whole storyline.
The abrupt change of tone in the storytelling bespeaks a personal rage or a turmoil that is reflected in that storyline. And I believe that it was a deviation from the original plot submitted for approval and approved two hears earlier. I think Morrison knew it would blindside Marvel and maneuvered to make good his escape before the fact... and that is what we saw at San Diego...morrison making his escape. If he hadn't done that, I might not have questioned his motives about the Planet X arc so stridently. I might not have thought it was done with ill will...but I do. I cannot help it. All clues lead to that conclusion...and the smoking gun is his flight from Marvel.
Quesada, by all reports, went to SDCC ready to announce that Morrison was staying another two years. We had heard this through the grapevine...that Morrison was to be signed to another two year contract. A goodly number of us were going into mourning...and Planet X hadn't even come out yet...so we didn't have an inkling of the horror to come!
Do I think a shakeup story was planned for Planet X? Yeah, I do...I think Morrison was gonna do something drastic to Mags...but leave him alive and possibly enraged or scarred or something to that effect...pushing the EEEEvil Magneto that certain aspects of editorial had been working towards for over a decade. It was to be their "coup de grace" against the Claremont Magneto fans.
But I think something happened to piss off Morrison. I don't know what that was...but I think he took out his disaffection by making the Planet X arc as destructive as possible...and not letting Marvel have a chance to logically retcon it by starting the hundredfifty years later thing in the last two pages of 150. I think Marvel got blindsided. their reactions indicate that. They may have been contractually obligated to print all of Morrison's run, otherwise why the Planet X and here comes the future arcs weren't shitcanned is beyond me. Planet X was so offensive...especially to the Jewish readers who, although he was an antagonist, loved Magneto as a character...a charasmatic character... with a point to his actions. The wholesale destruction of two major, popular characters...Jean and Mags... the breakdown of Scott's character...the fracturing of the Professor's ability...as well as other blatant anomalies all point to a premeditated disruption of cosmic proportions. That Morrison opted not to stay around and DEAL with the consequences of this disruption speaks volumes about possible premeditated motives.
If you have ever taught in the public school system, you very quickly learn to look for underlying behaviorial clues to outbreaks and anti-social behavior. You can identify potential troublemakers by their behavior pretty rapidly. You know who is doing their homework and who is not...and who is copying from others. And when a blowup occurrs, quite often you can piece together what happened...especially if the culprit hasn't covered his tracks well...or planned ahead.
I don't think the Planet X arc was planned ahead...at least not the one we saw. I think it was an explosion that was triggered by something else...and the escape was necessitated by what he was gonna do to the Marvel Universe...or more correctly, the X Universe.
By other creator's admissions, the rest of Marvel was not "clued in" as to what was gonna happen so their books could deal with it in a realistic matter...by getting their characters outta the way or sending them off on other errands...or whatever. When the Planet X blowup occurred in 147 and fans started to yell "Hey what about all the other heroes in NY?" someone..either Morrison or editorial... hastily inserted a lame "...Magneto made a phone call and lured all the superheroes to Brooklyn" !!! gimme a break! Later on, editorial , stuck with this dungheap of a storyline, tried to do some damage control. and you can see where word balloons and blurbs to explain anomalies were inserted if you look with a discerning eye.
That's why I say that the key to understanding what happened with this thing and why it happened depend on the timelines of what was happening at Marvel at the time...and the temperment of the people involved.
Planet X wasn't just another story...not even another explosive story to shake up the status quo. It was Morrison riding a plane into the Marvel edifice...and bailing out at the last minute. KNOWING the destruction that was gonna ensue...and not wanting to be caught up in it...or suffer the consequences of that premeditated destruction.
The kid throwing a rock through the school window. Stand back and LOOK...you can spot thim a mile away, if you know what to look for and how and where to look.
It's a moot point now, of course. Morrison is GONE!!! Marvel will not remain "in the future" Nor will it allow this wholesale destruction to endure. The major characters that were killed or subverted will return and be revived and renewed...and it won't take the Phoenix power todo it...like Jean bringing back Emma...even though her "power doesn't work that way"...riiiiiight... That's the joy of comics. No matter how bad it gets, you can always retcon it away if you are a good enough writer...and Claremont is a good enough writer...after all, he built the X empire once...he can do it again.
My money is on him!
Paty
:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
-
Panz
- Lookout
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New X-Men General Discussion
It would be of interest to know what REALLY went down, though I don't know if we ever will. Why made Grant decide to basically blow Marvel off and leave them hanging like he did. That is more than just "I'm bored with the title and don't have any more to give to it" That is something you work out with your editor. This seems pre-meditated. But I know how fast things can happen in the industry....Morrison was on the edge of another two-year contract with Marvel, DC SEEMS to be on an exclusive talent hunting drive. We have the setting of SDCCI and in truth, all of this could have gone down in a single morning...GM was, for what ever reason, secretly or not, less than satisfied with things at Marvel. Either he inquired of DC or they made the offer...a deal was struck over coffee...the announcement hit the floor a bit later. I dunno.
I have been to a lot of cons, and seen JQ many times, even talked with him a few times...I don't ever thinK I've seen him quite that rattled. Morrison caught everyone with their trousers down it seems. I first heard about it at the DC booth...I was *cough*
admiring Geoff Johns *Cough* while I chatted with him and was waiting with the rest of the attending Scrawlers for Chuck to show up. .. Or maybe that was Saturday :dead The days get a bit blurry with huge shows like that.
If Morrison HAD stayed on, I wonder what his plans would have been?
The entire thing with sending all of the supers to Brooklyn on a wild goose chase is the lamest exscuse I have EVER seen pasted into a comic ever...Marvy gets some kind of award for this one. *snort* EVERYONE needs an editor. The best thing any writer can have, besides talent and the ability to stay up all night and subsist on adrenalin and coffee, is a good editor. An editor is there to give you an outside view of what you've just created. The creative process of writing is an insular and sometimes, very emotionally charged atmosphere. With out an editors guidence, you can be blind to the flaws inherent in any art, much like how a parent is blind to the flaws of its child... I don't know why Marvel set it's self up for this.
Anyway. It seems to me that something involvinvg Phoenix and Wolvie is where the last book is headed...something must happen to bring them back to the present time line. This is different from the Days of Future Past time line, isn't it...I don't have the issues, I only have what I can glean online. .
This is likely going to pi$$ a lot of people off, but Scott and Emma deserve each other. Jean is much more interesting with Wolvie...just me.
GADS! I've type a novella here!
I have been to a lot of cons, and seen JQ many times, even talked with him a few times...I don't ever thinK I've seen him quite that rattled. Morrison caught everyone with their trousers down it seems. I first heard about it at the DC booth...I was *cough*
admiring Geoff Johns *Cough* while I chatted with him and was waiting with the rest of the attending Scrawlers for Chuck to show up. .. Or maybe that was Saturday :dead The days get a bit blurry with huge shows like that. If Morrison HAD stayed on, I wonder what his plans would have been?
The entire thing with sending all of the supers to Brooklyn on a wild goose chase is the lamest exscuse I have EVER seen pasted into a comic ever...Marvy gets some kind of award for this one. *snort* EVERYONE needs an editor. The best thing any writer can have, besides talent and the ability to stay up all night and subsist on adrenalin and coffee, is a good editor. An editor is there to give you an outside view of what you've just created. The creative process of writing is an insular and sometimes, very emotionally charged atmosphere. With out an editors guidence, you can be blind to the flaws inherent in any art, much like how a parent is blind to the flaws of its child... I don't know why Marvel set it's self up for this.
Anyway. It seems to me that something involvinvg Phoenix and Wolvie is where the last book is headed...something must happen to bring them back to the present time line. This is different from the Days of Future Past time line, isn't it...I don't have the issues, I only have what I can glean online. .
This is likely going to pi$$ a lot of people off, but Scott and Emma deserve each other. Jean is much more interesting with Wolvie...just me.
GADS! I've type a novella here!
Panz
Wallowing in the deepest pits of melodrama
Wallowing in the deepest pits of melodrama
New X-Men General Discussion
Wow ! Thank you Paty for explaining what happened between Marvel and Morrison.
I too found Morrison's first stories really interesting end then... not at all !
Anyway, you gave me hope to see Magnus and Jean again !
Yeah, I hope Claremont will rebuild the X-puzzle... with help from Chuck, of course. They are my two favorite X-writers, I know they can do it...if they're allowed to !
Just one thing : Chris Claremont constantly says he liked Morrison's stories... do you think he REALLY enjoyed Planet X ??? It's like watching someone play with two of your favourite toys and destroy them !
I too found Morrison's first stories really interesting end then... not at all !
Anyway, you gave me hope to see Magnus and Jean again !
Yeah, I hope Claremont will rebuild the X-puzzle... with help from Chuck, of course. They are my two favorite X-writers, I know they can do it...if they're allowed to !
Just one thing : Chris Claremont constantly says he liked Morrison's stories... do you think he REALLY enjoyed Planet X ??? It's like watching someone play with two of your favourite toys and destroy them !
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Paty
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New X-Men General Discussion
:mags:
HA! It's more like watching someone rape and kill your children! The characters a writer develops and gives life to are as much his or her children as the offspring of his or her flesh!
chris is a politic person...he's not gonna "dis" a fellow professional. He may chew nails at home and have to take gallons of antacid to get through a day...but he will not say derogatory things about a fellow professional...he is just that nice and courteous.
I do not know what Chris felt about Planet X. I only know I was furious. I could literally have easily and gleefully ripped out Morrison's arrogant heart! With my bare hands!!! and I better never meet the bastard in person or he will wish his mother had never met his father! I despise those who have no respect for the creations of others. they deserve to be ground back into the dust from which they slunk and slimed in the first place.
No, NO, Paty...tell us how you REALLY feel...
Exclusive contracts are rarely worked out over a cup of coffee...especially with someone like Morrison, I should think. Nah.. my bet is that he KNEW what he was doing...and went to SDCC with a signed contract under his belt...or in his pocket as a fait accomplai. If Joey the Q went to SDCC thinking he was gonna announce that Morrison would sign for two more years...and this is what we were told just before the con...cuz Rivka and I were sitting shiva for the fate of the Marvel characters...then he must have thought he had Morrison sewn up, if not signed...and only a signed contract with DC would have overridden a verbal promise of any ilk. Quesada got shafted...royally. And you don't DO that to someone like the Editor in Chief of Marvel unless you don't intend to ever come back...at least not while that person is in charge!!! Unless Quesada is unbelievably forgiving...or totally stupid, which he is not...Morrison won't be back to marvel until Hell freezes over I would think. In some companies, that kind of crap would get you blackballed forever in the industry. It may backfire on Morrison yet...cuz it tells everyone who can see that this guy is not to be trusted...no way...no how!!! And if anyone does have the unmitigated stupidity to trust him...they better learn to count their fingers after shaking hands with him. I doubt Quesada will ever trust him again...and rightly so. there was no excuse for what Morrison did...or how he did it.
As to his reasons, and the actions that precipitated the Planet X arc, I admit I am speculating...cuz no one except the players know exactly what went down...but given the timelines of when the comics were produced...the printing schedules and such, one can make an educated guess.
I do admit to being wildly incensed by the whole Planet X arc...but when it was over, I setpped back and took a long hard look with a cold rational eye to try to sort out what had happened to precipitate such a barrage of vitriol...which is the only way I can describe the Planet X arc. It was so different from what had been done by the writer up to that point. It was a Jeckel/Hyde thing in writing style...and when you stopped being emotional about it and stood back and really looked at the technicalities and their timelines...well...then a pattern became fairly clear. But you gotta know how the innards of Marvel work...and you gotta pay attention to radical changes in style and look for the reasons behind that radical change. Nothing happens in a vacuum, y'know. Anything...or everything... can influence a writer...from distress at home to the ranting of a best friend...to the death of a pet or a family member. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
And Morrison might do well to remember that for every action, there is an equal and opposide reaction. The laws of life, Grant, ol' boy...the laws of life...real life.
Paty
:mags:
HA! It's more like watching someone rape and kill your children! The characters a writer develops and gives life to are as much his or her children as the offspring of his or her flesh!
chris is a politic person...he's not gonna "dis" a fellow professional. He may chew nails at home and have to take gallons of antacid to get through a day...but he will not say derogatory things about a fellow professional...he is just that nice and courteous.
I do not know what Chris felt about Planet X. I only know I was furious. I could literally have easily and gleefully ripped out Morrison's arrogant heart! With my bare hands!!! and I better never meet the bastard in person or he will wish his mother had never met his father! I despise those who have no respect for the creations of others. they deserve to be ground back into the dust from which they slunk and slimed in the first place.
No, NO, Paty...tell us how you REALLY feel...
Exclusive contracts are rarely worked out over a cup of coffee...especially with someone like Morrison, I should think. Nah.. my bet is that he KNEW what he was doing...and went to SDCC with a signed contract under his belt...or in his pocket as a fait accomplai. If Joey the Q went to SDCC thinking he was gonna announce that Morrison would sign for two more years...and this is what we were told just before the con...cuz Rivka and I were sitting shiva for the fate of the Marvel characters...then he must have thought he had Morrison sewn up, if not signed...and only a signed contract with DC would have overridden a verbal promise of any ilk. Quesada got shafted...royally. And you don't DO that to someone like the Editor in Chief of Marvel unless you don't intend to ever come back...at least not while that person is in charge!!! Unless Quesada is unbelievably forgiving...or totally stupid, which he is not...Morrison won't be back to marvel until Hell freezes over I would think. In some companies, that kind of crap would get you blackballed forever in the industry. It may backfire on Morrison yet...cuz it tells everyone who can see that this guy is not to be trusted...no way...no how!!! And if anyone does have the unmitigated stupidity to trust him...they better learn to count their fingers after shaking hands with him. I doubt Quesada will ever trust him again...and rightly so. there was no excuse for what Morrison did...or how he did it.
As to his reasons, and the actions that precipitated the Planet X arc, I admit I am speculating...cuz no one except the players know exactly what went down...but given the timelines of when the comics were produced...the printing schedules and such, one can make an educated guess.
I do admit to being wildly incensed by the whole Planet X arc...but when it was over, I setpped back and took a long hard look with a cold rational eye to try to sort out what had happened to precipitate such a barrage of vitriol...which is the only way I can describe the Planet X arc. It was so different from what had been done by the writer up to that point. It was a Jeckel/Hyde thing in writing style...and when you stopped being emotional about it and stood back and really looked at the technicalities and their timelines...well...then a pattern became fairly clear. But you gotta know how the innards of Marvel work...and you gotta pay attention to radical changes in style and look for the reasons behind that radical change. Nothing happens in a vacuum, y'know. Anything...or everything... can influence a writer...from distress at home to the ranting of a best friend...to the death of a pet or a family member. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
And Morrison might do well to remember that for every action, there is an equal and opposide reaction. The laws of life, Grant, ol' boy...the laws of life...real life.
Paty
:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
-
Panz
- Lookout
- Posts: 767
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New X-Men General Discussion
Chris Claremont is eloquent and polite in all ways, I simply cannot imagine him doing anything so crass as to flame or dis-respect a fellow creator... I really do think he would rather chew his arm off first. I wish I didn't have such a nasty temper and lack of willpower. He even lighty scolded me once for saying something less than flattering about another creator. Talk about feeling lower than the belly of a pregnant daschund! LOL!
Recently, GM's father lost his battle with cancer and passed away. Having lost a parent after a long illness, I know how terrible it can be. I am sure that it influenced his writing. On the other hand, if these scripts were already plotted out and largely written....GAHHH! what a head ache! I still don't see the point in dragging Magneto through the mud
I mean, Jean died WEEEEEE!!! she'll be back, don't sweat it. Scott is a faithless bimbo? like we didn't already know that??? I could come up with a good long list. But why was Magneto singled out for such scorn???
I 'm sure that Chris loves Magneto. He has to. You could not pour that much of your soul into a character and not feel anything for it. Creating a character, breathing flesh and life into them living, vicariously, through them as you write their joy, anger, pain...your characters are a part of you forever. Writing a script, is an act of creation. I am always left with a feeling of exaulted breathlessness afterwards...How could Grant, do that to a character? does he care nothing for his own creations? Maybe all of the answers to the universe are condensed and laid out in the last issue of the last arc. I'm tired of being angry about it and now I'm just depressed and bewildered. I know how I would fix it, but I'm not writing the blasted thing. All I can do is cross my fingers.
I hope the day never comes that I simply could care less about some one that I brought to literary life. I think I'd just hang it up and never write again. I may be naive, but better that than jaded. I talk to other creators all of the time, and the ones that are all *YAWN* about it all, I just don't get. Why are they still doing it, if there is no life in it any more? All that sanguine "coolness"...thanks, but no...I'll just go right on being my gung-ho self and love what I do. When it becomes dead and ash in my mouth, I'll go on to something else.
I wish Grant good luck at DC, but I'm still not happy about the degradation of one of my all time favorite characters.
*sorry for the rant-a-thon*
Panz
Recently, GM's father lost his battle with cancer and passed away. Having lost a parent after a long illness, I know how terrible it can be. I am sure that it influenced his writing. On the other hand, if these scripts were already plotted out and largely written....GAHHH! what a head ache! I still don't see the point in dragging Magneto through the mud
I mean, Jean died WEEEEEE!!! she'll be back, don't sweat it. Scott is a faithless bimbo? like we didn't already know that??? I could come up with a good long list. But why was Magneto singled out for such scorn???
I 'm sure that Chris loves Magneto. He has to. You could not pour that much of your soul into a character and not feel anything for it. Creating a character, breathing flesh and life into them living, vicariously, through them as you write their joy, anger, pain...your characters are a part of you forever. Writing a script, is an act of creation. I am always left with a feeling of exaulted breathlessness afterwards...How could Grant, do that to a character? does he care nothing for his own creations? Maybe all of the answers to the universe are condensed and laid out in the last issue of the last arc. I'm tired of being angry about it and now I'm just depressed and bewildered. I know how I would fix it, but I'm not writing the blasted thing. All I can do is cross my fingers.
I hope the day never comes that I simply could care less about some one that I brought to literary life. I think I'd just hang it up and never write again. I may be naive, but better that than jaded. I talk to other creators all of the time, and the ones that are all *YAWN* about it all, I just don't get. Why are they still doing it, if there is no life in it any more? All that sanguine "coolness"...thanks, but no...I'll just go right on being my gung-ho self and love what I do. When it becomes dead and ash in my mouth, I'll go on to something else.
I wish Grant good luck at DC, but I'm still not happy about the degradation of one of my all time favorite characters.
*sorry for the rant-a-thon*
Panz
Panz
Wallowing in the deepest pits of melodrama
Wallowing in the deepest pits of melodrama
Phoenix
Hi all!
Grant Morrison's last issue of New X-men comes out this week.. on Wednesday. Anyone else really excited?
I don't know if advanced spoilers are allowed or not, so I won't give out too much specifics...
but from what I hear the whole run is tied up...[spoiler] we learn about Fantomex, the Cuckoos, and even No-Girl.[/spoiler]
Plus Phoenix does something really cool in the issue as well.
There has been so much build up for Jean's story since she started manifesting the Phoenix Raptor in 120 and then there was the premonition in 128 and then in 133 Araki foretold a disinfection of the planet and that the Phoenix had hatched.
Jean hatched in New 152 and now its time for the last issue... so will the Phoenix be merciless or will she "fix something that was dying"??
I'm gonna go on Wed. to the comic store instead of waiting til Thursday like I usually do.
Mike
Grant Morrison's last issue of New X-men comes out this week.. on Wednesday. Anyone else really excited?
I don't know if advanced spoilers are allowed or not, so I won't give out too much specifics...
but from what I hear the whole run is tied up...[spoiler] we learn about Fantomex, the Cuckoos, and even No-Girl.[/spoiler]
Plus Phoenix does something really cool in the issue as well.
There has been so much build up for Jean's story since she started manifesting the Phoenix Raptor in 120 and then there was the premonition in 128 and then in 133 Araki foretold a disinfection of the planet and that the Phoenix had hatched.
Jean hatched in New 152 and now its time for the last issue... so will the Phoenix be merciless or will she "fix something that was dying"??
I'm gonna go on Wed. to the comic store instead of waiting til Thursday like I usually do.
Mike
New X-Men General Discussion
re: NXM 154
all i can say is, thank god they put those letter pages back in.
i finished the issue with one of those dumb, "huuuuhhh??" faces.
what i basically took from it was [spoiler] jean is really dead (:(), beast was somehow infected with something that killed him and then somehow sublime took over his body, except the real beast was still alive, EVA was fantomex, apollyon was some crazy dude (?) and magneto's really dead too.[/spoiler]
except, like, all of those questions were answered in the last 3 pages.
[spoiler] but i'm still pissed jean's dead. [/spoiler]
all i can say is, thank god they put those letter pages back in.
i finished the issue with one of those dumb, "huuuuhhh??" faces.
what i basically took from it was [spoiler] jean is really dead (:(), beast was somehow infected with something that killed him and then somehow sublime took over his body, except the real beast was still alive, EVA was fantomex, apollyon was some crazy dude (?) and magneto's really dead too.[/spoiler]
except, like, all of those questions were answered in the last 3 pages.
[spoiler] but i'm still pissed jean's dead. [/spoiler]
New X-Men General Discussion
[spoiler]A lot of things were tied up here. We found out that the Cuckoos were Weapon 14, that Martha was No-Girl, and that Apollyon was Fantomex.
What I liked about the issue was Jean! Cassandra Nova and Martha unplug jean's connection to the Phoenix Concsiousness by blocking her access to her Crown Chakra.
Jean gets her memories back when talking to Logan. She realizes that she had been gone 150 years. Logan tells her that Magneto killed her under orders he never understood.
Kick (the mutant drug) was a form of Sublime. Sublime was behind a lot of things in New X-men. And now Sublime is in the Beast.
The Beast had took over the school after Jean had died and Scott had rejected Emma. Beast took Kick and shortly all heck broke loose.
So the future X-men fight the Beast who has gained Telekinesis from the Phoenix Blood (Jean's blood -her powers are called the Ultimate Mutation and telekinetic godhood in a jar).
Beast beats them up but Jean disinfects the Beast of Sublime and pulls Sublime right out of him.
She then amputates the future and apparentely goes into the white hot room..
She goes to a place where there are towers and other people in the phoenix costume.
She is in her White Phoenix Costume (the first time she wore it was with her talk to Death in Classic X-men 43... and later in X-men Forever). In the classic X-men 43 backstory her and Death built towers in the afterlife to house souls.
Anyhow she is called The White Phoenix of the Crown.. which I really liked.
She has to heal the "orphan universe" (our universe) and she does.
One of the Phoenix's (who looks like Quentin Quire) tells her that if it were him he'd just let it die.
But jean is all "Ha. Live Scott. Live"
Jean burns back through time and has Scott accept Emma. Scott and Emma kiss at Jean's grave site!
This way Beast won't get the school and try kick. Its not clear if Jean disinfected Sublime from the current time or if he is still around...
I left stuff out, but thats the big jist of it.[spoiler]
Any one else got any thoughts
What I liked about the issue was Jean! Cassandra Nova and Martha unplug jean's connection to the Phoenix Concsiousness by blocking her access to her Crown Chakra.
Jean gets her memories back when talking to Logan. She realizes that she had been gone 150 years. Logan tells her that Magneto killed her under orders he never understood.
Kick (the mutant drug) was a form of Sublime. Sublime was behind a lot of things in New X-men. And now Sublime is in the Beast.
The Beast had took over the school after Jean had died and Scott had rejected Emma. Beast took Kick and shortly all heck broke loose.
So the future X-men fight the Beast who has gained Telekinesis from the Phoenix Blood (Jean's blood -her powers are called the Ultimate Mutation and telekinetic godhood in a jar).
Beast beats them up but Jean disinfects the Beast of Sublime and pulls Sublime right out of him.
She then amputates the future and apparentely goes into the white hot room..
She goes to a place where there are towers and other people in the phoenix costume.
She is in her White Phoenix Costume (the first time she wore it was with her talk to Death in Classic X-men 43... and later in X-men Forever). In the classic X-men 43 backstory her and Death built towers in the afterlife to house souls.
Anyhow she is called The White Phoenix of the Crown.. which I really liked.
She has to heal the "orphan universe" (our universe) and she does.
One of the Phoenix's (who looks like Quentin Quire) tells her that if it were him he'd just let it die.
But jean is all "Ha. Live Scott. Live"
Jean burns back through time and has Scott accept Emma. Scott and Emma kiss at Jean's grave site!
This way Beast won't get the school and try kick. Its not clear if Jean disinfected Sublime from the current time or if he is still around...
I left stuff out, but thats the big jist of it.[spoiler]
Any one else got any thoughts