New X-Men General Discussion

scheherazade · Post by **scheherazade** » Sun May 02, 2004 8:51 pm

so... about rachel/jean/pheonix....

[spoiler] On the last page of NXM 156...

There's a shot of the pheonix force coming out of Jean's grave... So is it there to ressurect Jean? or maybe go back to Rachel, as she was the Pheonix for a while... but Rachel's joining the team as Marvel Girl, right? so the Pheonix force wouldn't be going to her, would it? So maybe Jeannie's coming back sooner than we thought, or the Pheonix force will go find another host (who?) or... what... just leave? for some reason, the picture looks like the pheonix force is going to go follow Scott, who's walking away in the picture...[/spoiler]

anyone else see this?

Nightcrawler ZERO · Post by **Nightcrawler ZERO** » Sun May 02, 2004 9:57 pm

I'll have to find the person who told me this again, but apparently on one of the "Buffy" boards, Joss Whedon made mention of wanting to [spoiler]Bring back Jean[/spoiler] in a new and interesting whay.

msgt · Post by **msgt** » Sun May 02, 2004 10:34 pm

Nightcrawler ZERO, do you think you can talk to your friend so we can confirm this? I haven't heard anything about this.

I also thought it was good that the phoenix was shown coming from Jean's Grave. It seemed like to me that Austen wasn't trying to tell us that Jean is dead and will stay that way. He had both Beast and Cyke talk about how she was the Phoenix and they seem to think she was either still "out there" or that she would come back.

There is also the rumors about the Avengers that I posted in the avengers thread (thought its probably unlikely and very wishful thinking on someone's part).

Still it would be nice to have Jean back sooner rather than later...

I think it would be awesome for her to be back in Whedon's book. John Cassadays artwork is awesome.

Mike

Paty · Post by **Paty** » Mon May 03, 2004 12:46 am

:mags
Yeah... the Phoenix force was swirling around the tombstone...Tombstones mean nothing to the Phoenix, don't you know...

Of course Jean will be back. SHE'S THE FOCUS OF THE THIRD MOVIE!!!

does that not mean anything to anybody? Read Merchandising up the wazoo, guys! I mean, aside from the nature of the crittur...
did RBM think his mighty one hundred and fifty year hiatus would be observed? He set himself up for instant retcon with that one...Marvel may not be retconning,but it will sure ignore his wonderful outcomes when it wants to..then some writer in a more sane time will explain it all away as a dead alternate time line or something ...which is all it deserves.

And they really are gonna have to address the adultery thing if and when they do bring Jean back...as if having rachel there isn't bad enough...sigh.
One might think they would get around it by making Rachel the Phoenix...but there are too many Jean Grey fans out there who would be very upset if she didn't come back...and of course, she's in the third movie due out...when? this year? next year? They might delay her reappearance to coincide with the movie...but my bet is she will appear sooner. she is too good a character to not use.
Paty
:mags

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Mon May 03, 2004 12:58 am

Originally posted by Paty
:mags
...and of course, she's in the third movie due out...when? this year? next year?
Paty
:mags

2006 I believe...

Personally...I was ticked at the ending of X2...I know the Phoenix Saga is a big part of the X-Men mythos, but just how many times and variations of it do we have to see? X-Men: Evolution was the only version not to tell this particular tale and that's probably only because it got cancelled before they got around to it...

I've nothing against Jean...though I don't care for all-powerful characters...but enough is enough...her death and rebirth has happened so many times it's lost all impact...we all KNOW she'll be back...

Maybe Joss can be original...make her come back as Scott and Emma's illegitamate daughter or something...

LadyErin · Post by **LadyErin** » Mon May 03, 2004 3:48 am

Originally posted by Nandireya
Maybe Joss can be original...make her come back as Scott and Emma's illegitamate daughter or something...

Joss be original?!?:LOL:rolleyes Sorry, bitter ex-fan talking here. No, I'm not expecting him to turn out anything but crap. Or worse. No, if he's smart, he'll leave the storytelling to the ones who remember how to tell a good story.

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:22 am

I don't think Emma is evil, just misguided. She's learning, slowly, kinda. I hope the writers that follow Morrison can keep the ball rolling with Emma.

If Xavier kicked her out, what kind of trouble would she cause then? And he can't just mentally "fix" her so she isn't messed up any more since it's against his moral code... and as NZ said (in a different thread I think) they need her education background if they want to run a school.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:34 am

not to mention her personal fortune, since both Xavier and Archangel are going to Genosha, and Northstar is nowhere to be seen...

and LadyErin, careful.... yer walking the line there about Joss.

Nightcrawler ZERO · Post by **Nightcrawler ZERO** » Tue May 04, 2004 3:46 am

Originally posted by msgt
Nightcrawler ZERO, do you think you can talk to your friend so we can confirm this? I haven't heard anything about this.
Mike

OK- i asked him to find the quote. Seems it isn't what he told me at first, but rather that John Cassaday has been seen looking up Dark Phoenix TPBs.....

http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=3833

This could also alude to a Hellfire Club or Imperial Guard Story..........

LadyErin · Post by **LadyErin** » Tue May 04, 2004 3:52 am

Originally posted by Bamfette
and LadyErin, careful.... yer walking the line there about Joss.

I know, I know. That's why I stopped. And the sad thing is I know he used to be able to tell good stories. Ones that would leave me stunned. It just seems the last couple of years (ok, the last four years) he burned out and needed to take a break. Or just didn't care anymore, which was worse. I know where he was, what he was could do and to see less, to see his own story-lines, history destoyed, left me pretty bitter. I just know he can do better, and isn't. And, as you can see, am pretty angry about it. I felt almost betrayed then. Now, I know things happen and it's not personal, not meant to disapoint us but it felt that way for a long time.

Paty · Post by **Paty** » Sun May 09, 2004 2:02 pm

:mags
Hmmm... I don't see what the problem is, Jill...
If you are a creator, you put your work before the public. some of the public will love what you do...some will be neutral... and some will hate it. some will think you are a genius and have the right to say so and why. Others will think you are a hack or talentless and also have the right to say so and why they think that.
That's what open discussion is.
You are talking about the work and the person's ability to do the work he or she is doing. That's fair discussion material, Isn't it? when you become a public person, by dint of offering your creations to the public, you open yourself and your work up for scrutiny. This doesn't give the paperazzi the right to interfere in your life and take pix of you on the john...but it does give anyone who reads or looks at your work the right to comment on it and on you as a creator.
When, as a creator, you become a public person, you open yourself up to public comment...and not all of it will be positive...because different people have different points of view.
Different points of view are what makes horse races and interesting discussions.
Lady Erin was expressing her view of her expectations of Joss's work based on her perusal of his efforts over years on certain tv shows he authored. It was critical commentary on his work and her reaction to it. where was the "foul" there? Maybe you didn't agree with it...but she had every right to say what she thought about his work and how it affected her. and, of course, you have every right to say you don't feel that way about his work...and why you feel as you do. Then others can chime in and say why they agree or disagree with either or both points of view. That's discussion. If you can't have pro and con you aren't gonna have much of a discussion.
That's freedom of speech. That's freedom to state your opinion. and, when pressed, she elaborated on her opinion...which is also allowable in discussion, isn't it?

Flaming is puerile calling of nasty names ... and, of course, is not allowed in public forum. but crituque is not name calling.... it is honest critipue. and honest critique...either positive or negative should be allowed...otherwise you aren't gonna have a discussion..you are gonna have everybody sitting around nodding their heads and saying"Gee, doesn't the emperor look great in his new clothes!"
Paty
:mags

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Sun May 09, 2004 3:07 pm

What Jill was saying Paty is to be careful what you say about creators in general. Jill and Chris have no problem with someone disliking someone's art or a particular writer's arc but when expressing your opinion do so in a respectable manner. They are not about to have Nightscrawlers go down the crapper along side other message boards as of late that are breeding grounds for trollish behavior. I don't blame them really. I plan to be the very same way when it comes to my board (still trying to get the damn thing up.

But that is a different story altogether). And yes, this is a board where we discuss comics and other off- topics, but as we are respectable to each other here we must also extend that same courtesy to all the creators.

If Jill and Chris allow members to publicly rant about creators any 'ol way they want then this board will end up losing many members including myself that winces everytime anyone is flamed because their opinion doesn't happen to follow in the same direction as the person that is doing the flaming.

We love difference of opinion but it needs to be done in a manner that is respectable.

Paty · Post by **Paty** » Sun May 09, 2004 4:50 pm

:mags
sigh... I know what Jill was saying. we had this go round when I was ranting about Morrison. And I admitted I did rant! I snarfed and growled and ranted from here to high water! I was livid!
erin's comment, while a negative reaction to Joss's work, was her opinion...no disrespect...just honest reaction to his tv work and a belief that he would not do well in the books...based on her observation of what he did with the rv scripst she had seen.
A considered and informed opinion.
I can see what problem Jill and Crawler had with me foaming at the mouth and swearing to do bodily harm to Morrison. A little over the top...i even f totally warranted. Heh heh...
but this particular post was an innicuous statement of opinion... not hurtful,, except , maybe, to Joss's ego...but then creators must learn to deal with that,y'know... nor flaming nor ranting.
I could understand if they kicked my sorry ass off the board. I can't understand why this post was offensive. If you like a creator and his work, you say so...if you don't like a creator or his work,you say so.
that's discussion. all pro and no con isn't a discussion...it is an acclaimation.
Paty
:mags

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Sun May 09, 2004 9:34 pm

that's why i only said she was 'walking the line' she hadn't done anything wrong... yet. but she was kind of going in that direction. she was beginning to stray from the work and inot the person territory. just thought i would remind her before she actually did...

LadyErin · Post by **LadyErin** » Mon May 10, 2004 12:32 am

Jill, you show have seen what I wrote before I posted. That would have gotten me in trouble. So I didn't post for a few minutes and calmed down. Yes, Joss is a sore spot and a big one. Yes, I have a personal dislike for the guy at this point. Yes, i think he could better if he took some time on and let his brain rest. Yes he used to be a wonderful story-teller. And I try to remember that. So I try not post something in the heat of the moment. I'm a little (or a lot) too hot-headed for that. So I know better. No worries.

Thanks for defending me Paty, but I have, in the past, said some pretty nasty things about the guy (doubt Jill would know about that, since it wasn't said here) and been worse to the people who still believe he is a good writer. Am I sorry I said it? No, I'm not. (It wasn't however on a completely public forum, and I didn't break any rules) But-and here's the but-I do have writers I like. People I would defend. And I do understand that people feel the same way about Joss. So even if I was allowed to rant and rave, I wouldn't. No need to be nasty about it. I just wish he would have been doing this back during my freshman year of high school. Cause it would have been great. Besides, if I expect something horrible and I get something great, that makes it all the better. But maybe this will be good. Maybe this will prove me wrong and that I was worried for nothing (I honestly hope so). Or maybe he is stuck for ideas. Honestly, anything other than he stopped caring about telling good stories.

Because he was so talented. I wish we had that back. The demi-god story teller. The one who could plot storylines over the course of a year and make it work. The one who could leave me in tears because the pain scripted was that real. The one who made me blush when watching a PG rated scene with a couple talking-because it felt like I was watching something to intimate for outsiders to see. The one who wrote a story so well it helped me forget I was getting spit on in class. Who could make me forget everything for an hour and escape a life I really didn't want to live anymore. And then, things started to change. Yes, there were some good ones. A 43 minute television episode with about eight minutes dialogue? (Well, roughly) Wonderful. Truly wonderful.

But it seemed like he lost his muse, like he was out of stories to tell. And then we got recycled story lines. Plot holes. Beloved characters forgotten for the 'new' 'kewl' ones. People who had been such a part of the story pushed away. Back stories ignored or forgotten. Does that make him a horrible person? No. Just human. Does it make for good writing? No, it doesn't. Did it feel like a betrayal? That we had been told to trust and wait and it would be ok and that the whole time we were being lied to? Yes, it did. Does it mean he can't tell good stories anymore? No. I'm sure he can. Maybe he was tired of TV. Maybe the bits and pieces I saw for the comic I saw was a joke. Or out of context. Or a very rough draft. But it sounded flat. Empty. No where what I knew he could do. And there are those bitter feelings again. Joss wrote dialogue that so immersed in the story that I was zoned out of everything around me (including the cat tagging me so hard I was bleeding) and this just wasn't that level of good. And I want that level of good back.

black mamba · Post by **black mamba** » Sat May 29, 2004 10:32 pm

does austen have any plans for that jill character? i was told she was suppose to enter our world.

Entropy · Post by **Entropy** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:19 pm

RUMOR:

supposedly Austen is leaving X-men.
rumor has it he has written up to around issue 170.

love him or hate him, the man may soon be leaving.

and please remember, this is a RUMOR

mightiest_mortal · Post by **mightiest_mortal** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:16 pm

dont supose any one could do me a favour? as this is the New X-Men thread i thought it best said here...
Im working on an Insane X-Men game at the moment (almost complete infact) For those who've read my comic its kind of in the same vein as that

..well for one scene i need an exact quote but dont have my ciomics with me. Its the scene where Smasher lands on Earth.. he says something about a warning and needing help or something.. before the cow moos .. but i need to know exactly what he says.
IF anyone could help me id greatly apreciate it.

Crawler · Post by **Crawler** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:35 pm

...made it... the only living being to travel 4-space unaided...

I...I...am imperial superguardian smasher...

emmisary of lilandra... empress... of... of...

unnh

heed me... a shi'ar assualt fleet is coming...

warn your leaders... prepare your weapons... build up your defenses...

bring a warning to the guardians of human and mutantkind... the x-men...

tell your people!

protect the earth...

she has come.

she has come.

MOO

mightiest_mortal · Post by **mightiest_mortal** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:46 pm

Fantastic

Cheers a load mate, much apreciated.
il give u an advance copy of the XGame before its on general release