Why is Rap bad?

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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Okay so when you go onto any gamer/comic site you're asking for it if you like rap. I know this is a terrible generalization, but it often times turns out true. You don't see a lot of rap being used in Matrix or X-men, and when those guys in the dark corners of your school play D&D they're not exactly bopping their heads to Kanye or Jaguar. What I'm getting at is, why do people think Rap sucks?

Starting off from space one though, next to country it's the second most popular genre IN THE WORLD. But like Rock, it's also got levels of different sub-genres. Hip-Hop, Krunk, (eiw), and a few others which I can't think of but there's even a name for Spanish rap and Reggae Rap. (not reggae, REGGAE RAP.)

This said, I've met a lot of fans of Rap in my day. I'm 21, so i'm not Old, but i'm definitely from one of the generations most effected by this genre. A lot of the Rap-listeners I run into tend to know and appreciate other genres. They'll say country sucks but usually give a nice nod to Garth or someone. They respect musicians like John Lennon, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Dizzy, B.B. King, Clapton, etc...

But why is it every person I've ever run into who is a self-proclaimed "Metal-head" so anti-Rap? What is there so wrong with it? Why do you hate it so much Metal guys?

Honestly I used to LOATHE it. But then I started writing poetry, and i discovered three core things.
1) It's not talking. It's like shakespeare almost. There's a pattern, a speech pattern. There's a beat, a rhythm, it's poetry read "in-motion". And sang too. There's singing, don't kid yourself.

2) The words are incredibly deep if you try to stray from the "Hip-Hop" Pop culture. Usually "artists" like little John, or Usher tend to sing about nonsensical poppy stuff. Bling, girls, sex, booty, their ego. If you find RAP, real rap. (Common, some Kanye, Talib Kweli, the Roots, Mos Def for sure) you'll find something you wouldn't find there. Talks of struggles, not just ones on the street but struggles from within. You'll get a story sometimes, if not a story then a picture or look into their lives. And the life of an underprivileged chicago minority is not exactly easy.

3) There is REAL music in Rap. Once again, once you're past the hip-hop fergiliscious crap, you find real artists, real musicians. The Roots are all blues/jazz artists who formed a Rap group.

I know that for some anti-rap people this concept is hard to accept and I'm not trying to bash into your skulls only listen to rap. But I've been listening to nothing but alt. rock, rock and roll, and blues for 21 years. It's safe to say I'm getting sick of it. I don't hate it, it's just it runs my life. I'm surrounded by it. I started to get into Talib Kweli about a year ago and that opened the door for Mos Def, The Roots, and now Common.

You'll hear me say I can't stand system of a down, but not because of their genre, I don't mind that music at all. It's just how they sound, it makes me tired and gives me a headache. The point of all this is, i want to hear from you guys, why do you, provided you don't like rap, not like rap?

Here's a video of Common live on Conan in Chicago.

There's also this video by Mos Def and Talib Kweli, which if you don't like Rap I suggest not listening too this one is a little intense for non-rap listeners. But it's a good inside of what I'm talking about visually.

And finally, the video that got me to love Kanye West. There's Version 1 (with some weird intro ignore that...) which was basically BANNED from MTV and other american television channels Video 1

then the second version (squeaky damn clean): Video 2

You guys don't have to watch/listen to these videos, but it'll help the debate if you know what I'm talking about.



[Edited on 24/1/08 by Ult_Sm86]
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by JSherlock »

I try to say I don't like the rap that basically says, "kill the cop, rape the fucking bitch, snort 'till my nose is gone (or whatever drug of choice is theirs), then rumble with next hood." That I do not like at all. But I agree, some rap is very good, and the lyrics are very thoughtfully penned and composed. The stuff that, to me, seems to be written just for the shock value doesn't seem to be the essence of rap worldwide, - it's just a small portion of it. So I don't listen to it.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

YAY JS!!! You got what I mean! Though rarely these days to you see a lot of Rap talking about "Pig Cops" that was mostly a late eighties early nineties thing, that sort of went out the window with the depletion of the west coast/east coast "wars".
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

There is a subset of the culture that surrounds it that I am not happy with. I don't blame the music itself as such - but for example dog fighting is idealized and promoted by some artists - same with beating/suppression of women, lawlessness ect. I think that I would like to see better messages going out through the lyrics.

That said, I really like a lot of hip hop.

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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

But see, I listen to Rap and I don't see a lot of that at all. Now i'm no major rap fan so I'll turn this to my cousin sam. He's been listening to Rap since he was four and he's 22. He grew up in New Haven, Conn. (Originaly South New Haven...not good area) and though the kids were lawless and doing some of the things you're mentioning, though I don't really think it's because of the Rap they were listening to, I think it was the area, the place, they lived in. It wasn't a good neck of the woods. Poor education system, poor police force, gangs were (are) in charge of some areas, and it's very hard to find a job somewhere in new haven. (That is unless you live in/around the Yale area). What I'm getting at is it's not the culture that reflects the music but the music that reflects the culture. If this is what they grew up with this is what they're gonna talk about. Unless they're like Common and Kanye and they rose above it.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

Oh for sure - its not the music that causes the culture - its a reflection of it. However when you have kids looking up to these idols - they are in poverty and crisis, and here are these guys that get it - and they have the money and the cars and the women...they listen to what they say as well. So if they are saying things like 'dog fighting is cool'...it doesn't help.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Angelique »

Rap largely lost me as a devotee in the late '80's-'90's. I still listen to Grand Master Flash and Fab Five Freddy every so often. I'm aware that I'm making flagrant generalizations, but the rap that arose when I was a kid seemed more a product of creative people who were concerned about their world, wanted something better than the life the ghetto offered for themselves and others, and while angry about crime, drug abuse, poverty, and institutional racism, they were a bit more optimistic that they could overcome all that, and making their voices heard in such a way was just a brilliant start.

I also liked a little of the trivial good-timey stuff to take a break from social commentary, but was not thrilled when that became the "rap" that dominated the charts. The banal pop lyrics and the self-aggrandizement really put me off. Tales of teenagers who complain of being misunderstood because their parents don't buy them trendy clothes or let them drive the Porsche, while humorous, don't resonate the same way as tales of dealing with and trying to overcome real hardship.

But I felt that Public Enemy, NWA, and the like went overboard with the anger in their social commentaries. And I think 2 Live Crew deliberately tried to tick off the PMRC so they could then whine about being martyrs for the First Amendment. "Oh poor us! We're being persecuted for our despicable, sexist, pornographic lyrics."

I didn't feel sorry for them and didn't buy their music. Now, people feel they can get away with anything as long as it has that handy-dandy warning label on it. Thanks again, PMRC. Geesh.

Now it seems that rap has long since abandoned the concerned but upbeat messages it had way back when. Instead, it's embraced drugs, crime, the mistreatment of women, stuff denounced by people who wanted to either leave or improve the ghetto.

Groups that strove to keep the concerned, even angry, but upbeat ethic, like the Fugees, seem the exception rather than the norm. However, I could be wrong. I hope I am.

Meanwhile, a woman from Zimbabwe introduced me to the music of Boom Shaka, the Township Dwellers, and Zola. So these days, instead of rap, I listen to kwaito.

Now if only I could understand the words better.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by german_gremlin »

I use to hate rap but I didn't give it a chance. I like some now.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Crocodile Hunter »

I love rap, but it doesn't fit in to playing D&D or X-men.

I belong to the minority that can listen to everything from rap to metal and from metal to orchestrated stuff.

I don't know if Control Machete is rap or hip hop (I don't really care)
but this is one of the best songs I know:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYaVtNBJNlQ

I mostly listen to rap (mostly NWA) while driving, the beats are awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPb4s0-QcI

[Edited on 25/1/2008 by Crocodile Hunter]
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Angelique, as much as I agree that there is a good percentage of rap artists on the radio expressing their feelings on how awesome it is to be a pimp (and/or hoe) there is still rap of this generation that doesn't do that and it's not that hard to find. Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Black eyed peas even, Kanye, DJ Quik, they all have usually positive messages of rising ABOVE the drugs/sex/hate. In fact, a perfect example is that "Jesus Walks" video.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Crocodile Hunter »

Originally posted by Ult_Sm86
Black eyed peas
Wait, what? Black Eyed Peas is rap? Ha Ha Ha!
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Well they're not country.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

They are hip hop - and that falls into the category of 'rap' often.

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Why is Rap bad?

Post by wingyding »

OKay. I like some rap. I like some hip-hop/ I like some of nearly everything. That said, most rap gives me a brutal headache because it is tracked--no, it's not just the guy with the huge speakers in his car-- to be loud on the bass, and loud on the treble, with nothing in the middle. And that gives me an insane headache if I have to listen to it long enough.

And the only other problem I've got with rap as a whole is that the gangsta rap that's so popular now--Lil Jeezy, Lil Jon and the Eastside Boyz, etc.-- is that it encourages kids who listen to it to become the image the artists are trying to present: a lawless, take-no-shit-from-nobody, disrespectful badass. And most of them, I'm sorry to say, or going to end up one of three ways if they continue. In jail, dead, or on welfare dependent on having children to support themselves, which only ends up perpetuating the cycle and making the problem worse.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

A lot of the problems with rap can be found in rock too though. It's easy to make an argument against rap because of a lot of the things we've all said, but I mean lets not kid ourselves. Some of the stuff in rock isn't always the best example either.
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Post by wingyding »

True, but I don't see a whole lot of rock fans having five or seven babies just to avoid actually working.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Freak »

I could be wrong, but I think that rap is actually a bit over-represented. Nowadays you've got maybe one song out of four in which the music doesn't suddenly change and someone starts rapping. I don't like rap because it's overused, even to an extend where it is ridiculous (eg, Girlfriend from Avril Lavigne, not brilliant, but nice, and then she goes and 'covers' her own song with a female rapper ><)
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

Originally posted by wingyding
True, but I don't see a whole lot of rock fans having five or seven babies just to avoid actually working.
Heh. You need to come up to my end of the woods then Wingy. Trust me.

But then again - its not the music. Its the individual. What they do with it is up to them. Its the impressions on youth that I'm concerned about.

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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Angelique »

I don't think the fact that some of the same problems exist in rock absolves rap any, but if we need to point out something wrong in rap culture that we don't hear of taking place among rock stars anywhere near as often, it's the stars whacking each other in gang shootings. This by representatives of a music genre that way back when was 100% opposed to drugs, gang violence, et cetera,.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

But see thats the image the artists are trying to shake. Rap doesn't have to be associated with those things, not in that context. It just always is.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Scumfish »

Me, I just generally don't like rap, unless it's hardcore deep Emcee or 'freeform' rap. But that's from spending all my commuting hours to/from college listening to crap 'pop' rap courtesy of Brum's 'Gangsta' culture and a mis-spent youth growing up with the likes of Dogg and Eminem. I'm a trough-and-through rocker now.

That being said....I am fully aware that a lot of the tunes I listen to now actually contain a lot of rap. I'm a big fan of Insane Clown Posse (though I ain't a Juggalo, as I'm not Christian) and Linkin Park, and by proxy Fort Minor which has a pet Emcee by the name of Mike Shinoda. So yes, in that respect I do listen to it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is so long as it's deep and means something, I don't care what genre it takes. And if people like poppy rap? Well. That's their choice. Just STOP playing it on your phones at 7am in the morning on MY bus as loud as you possibly can. Because not everyone has the same tastes, yo.

That's my opinion. :D
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by GreenLanternGrl »

Personally, I hate Hip Hop. I wish I could kill it. It's the beat and how the lyrics are structured that bothers me. And on a sideline, i hate the lyrics. Often times they make no sense to me.

Rap on the other hand? I like the concept of it because I'm an English Major and love it when people play with words :D. I'd probably give it more of a chance if I heard more meaningful things being rapped about. And I've actually heard a few songs of Talib Kweli's. Not bad. :).

Black eyed peas? come on ben...their meaningful songs are outnumbered by their shallow ones...
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Brother Ali

Another example of GOOD rap with a GOOD message.

I got some others as well, various kinds. Enjoy!


"Be" by Common


"The People" by Common


Neva Have 2 Worry


Vato


King Without A Crown <--Okay more like Reggae but still pretty hip/hop in the way its sung.

[Edited on 16/4/08 by Ult_Sm86]
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by wingyding »

The only thing I can say that's nice about that, is that at least you didn't call it music. It's not music if you can't play a verse, then a chorus, then another verse on an instrument.

As of late, my opinion has changed from 'don't like rap' to 'utterly loathe and abhore rap'. I want the genre as a whole to die out and do so quickly, taking with it all of the sluts, bitches, skanks, whores, whatever you call them, with it. And the males of those varieties as well.
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Why is Rap bad?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Well I'll ignore that slanderous poor excuse for a debate which comes off more like a personal generalization and just go ahead and reply with this:

so What's this feeling?
My love could rip a hole through the ceiling
I give myself to you from the essence of my being
and I Sing to my god these songs of love and healing
I Want Mashiach now so it's time we start revealing



Yeah...cuz that's totally "Shoot 'em up bitch gangasta shit, gonna tear you a new one bling bling".

The genre will never die and will only evolve, just like rock did.
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