No goths on leashes allowed

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Freak
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No goths on leashes allowed

Post by Freak »

So, this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/a ... ge_id=1770

Well, typically you would say how unjustified and mean the bus driver has acted, and he did.

But sometimes I think some people who want to live different lifes than others seem to not be able to accept that this will also result in others treating them differently and not by applauding how special they are. So they run around shouting about indiscrimination and equal rights, making them seem as hypocrites (at least in my eyes).

Now don't get me wrong, I don't say goths per se deserve to be treated differently, because for any person who just meets them on the street their looks can't be more than a fashion-statement, and no one deserves to be judged for that.

But if you walk around with a human on a leash, and that human even acts like a pet, sorry, don't expect people to come and pet her.

[Edited on 23/1/08 by Freak]
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No goths on leashes allowed

Post by Crocodile Hunter »

Well

Given that she describes herself as a human pet – and is happy to walk around on a lead – Tasha Maltby is used to odd looks and even odder remarks.
I find that very errr... Not good.

But
bus driver who allegedly told the self-styled Goth and her boyfriend: "We don't let freaks and dogs like you on."
I don't think that's a good thing either. Since it's a bus, he's a bus driver and they were apparently going to pay for the ride.
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No goths on leashes allowed

Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

The bus driver was completely wrong to not allow them on and even more wrong to make such hateful statements and then physically attack someone. They weren't bothering anyone, they are doing it of their free will and it isn't hurting a thing. So if you don't like it, ignore it.

I hope that he was severely reprimanded or fired for his attack.

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Post by wingyding »

The bus driver is an idiot, plain enough. But freak has a good point. You can't go around acting in a way that is so far removed from the people around you that it calls attention to you, and then expect to be treated like a mild-mannered office assistant.
But, I also agree with paws. If you don't like the way someone dresses or talks, it's not an excuse to cause them physical harm. You may not have to welcome them with open arms and invite them to take your daughter to the school dance, but you really don't have to shove them bodily off the bus either.
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

Exactly. You are entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to force it on others or restrict them from doing things because of it. That's inappropriate.

This of course doesn't include unlawful or harmful activity.

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Post by GreenLanternGrl »

In my opinion, i'm completely sympathetic with the bus driver. Human pet? what???!! That is not psychologically healthy. If her boyfriend died or left her, i bet she wouldnt have the capability to live life independantly because depending on her bf "disabled" her in a sense. I mean, she obviously doesnt think she can live life on her own since she "needs" her bf to "look after her". Her ability to live by her own and make her own decisions is comprimized, and affects her ability to stand alone as a respected human being. It should be outlawed due to the pychological damage it does to a person. No human being should live through another.

I dont believe this was discrimination based on how they dressed or did their makeup/hair.

[Edited on 8/4/08 by GreenLanternGrl]
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

Originally posted by GreenLanternGrl
In my opinion, i'm completely sympathetic with the bus driver. Human pet? what???!! That is not psychologically healthy. If her boyfriend died or left her, i bet she wouldnt have the capability to live life independantly because depending on her bf "disabled" her in a sense. I mean, she obviously doesnt think she can live life on her own since she "needs" her bf to "look after her". Her ability to live by her own and make her own decisions is comprimized, and affects her ability to stand alone as a respected human being. It should be outlawed due to the pychological damage it does to a person. No human being should live through another.

I dont believe this was discrimination based on how they dressed or did their makeup/hair.

[Edited on 8/4/08 by GreenLanternGrl]
I think that you have a basic misunderstanding of the relationship that is in place here - this isn't a matter of disempowering the 'pet' or 'sub' and making them completely reliant on you and abusing them. It is about a role that people take with the utmost respect for each other and doing what the other desires. Without this respect it's not a true D/s relationship.

There are many common misconceptions out there on this topic. Once you begin to do some reading and research I think you will find out that while this is an alternative lifestyle, and one that definately is not suited to all, it has the same level of respect and affection that an 'average' relationship would have, if not more because that mutual respect is so enforced.

And on the other hand, I was in a completely 'normal looking' relationship with a guy that was very abusive and harmful. So again, it's a matter of not judging a book by its cover.

I'm sure that others here are more informed and could provide you with some good reading/websites if you are interested. :)

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Post by Saint Kurt »

All the obvious about
On one hand: The bus driver was out of line for obvious reasons.
And on the other: People who deliberately set themselves apart to be different and then cry "victim!" when they are treated different... Well, I understand why they're upset, but I only have a little patience for it.

Different is a state of mind, not a way of dressing or acting. If you want to be treated like everyone else on the outside, there's a very easy solution. When I see a person asking society to make room for their more extreme quirks worn without compromise - I see someone with an axe to grind. I know. As part of the original US goth movement in the 80s, I ground this axe for years. In the end I learned to incorporate it into my professional attire so that I both had "my look" and didn't piss off any bus drivers (or employers/professors). It can be done.

And on a totally different note: Those are some mighty fine and fancy gothic threads the UK government bought those kids! :)

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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

I think the whole thing is ridiculous. I don't care how "respectful" or "cordial" they may be at home, you drag someone on a leash around and the only thing I can think of is

a) slave trade.
b) Planet of the f*cking Apes.


Now was the bus driver out of line for getting physical/mean? Sure. Yeah. You could just shut the doors and drive away. Look at it like this though, he's an emplyee and the bus is his store. They are his customers.
He has every right to choose not to "sell" to them. How he did it is out of line for sure, but if someone came into subway with that sh*t going on? PFFt, Go somewhere else. (That's if they could get past Wal-Mart security like that mind you.) I yelled at a guy to get out for screaming the word N*gger? Why? Cuz it's an intolerant word and I also think it's stupid to be in a public place and do stupid shit like that. I didn't want him in the store, pissing off my customers or chasing the other ones coming away. :shrug

But that's just me. As I said, the whole situation is sh*t. You should never lose your temper with someone until a very last resort and he wasn't at his last resort, he started like that. So...yeah.
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

Well someone being racist, yeah - I wouldn't tolerate that either. What people don't seem to be getting here is that this isn't about being a 'slave' or what have you. A true 'slave' is one that isn't choosing that lifestyle and one who is forced to go along with it. I've seen plenty of 'vanilla' relationships where the women are way closer to being 'slaves' than this woman is, and because they look a certain way they are tolerated.

Now, I do agree with SK. Dress outlandishly and you are bound to be noticed and in some cases cause a ruckus. And I hope that they can find a means to support themselves rather than relying on the government. However people have a very poor understanding about what the 'culture' of D/s really is. Even I don't fully get it, not being into it, but I've done a bit of reading and whatnot.

See Wiki for more info. WARNING! It's about more adult themes.

Refusing to serve people just based on how they are dressed is applying your belief system as more valuable and important than theirs to the point that they don't deserve the normal things that everyone else would...that's a little over the top, and very 'holyier than thou art'.

The big issue here? These guys aren't hurting anyone. The racist hurling slurs was. Therein lies the difference for me.

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Post by wingyding »

I'm with paws. Totally.

I used to know a couple in an open relationship; the two were married with children, and each had an extramarital affair going, that the other partner was aware of and consenting to. A lot of people thought that it was wrong and looked down on them for it, and called Brian and Courtney a lot of really horrible names (and pitied her for her situation--that one got me wondering why they didn't pity him any) when they had no clue what was really going on.

It just goes to show that you really don't know how a relationship works until you're in it. And that you shouldn't judge people by what you think you know about them, when you haven't checked to make sure your assumptions are correct.
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Post by Starfish »

I totally agree with Paws, as well.

And I think there are many people who have a serious misconception in regard to what the BDSM lifestyle is about. It has nothing to do with slavery at all. Please keep in mind that this is practised between consensting adults and is not about abuse or suppression, but simply a different lifestyle.

Here's a link that I found to be very helpful when I did some research on the topic: http://www.xeromag.com/fvbdsm.html
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Post by Saint Kurt »

Why are we assuming that they are living a BDSM lifestyle?

In general BDSM players don't parade their activities around in public this way. Just like the rest of the world, what they do in the "bedroom" (or the living room, or the kitchen, or the dungeon, or where ever...) stays there.

If you live in a large city, you've probably walked by the doors of private, members only BDSM dungeons/clubs without even knowing it. If you live in a smaller town, you might have noticed a gathering of completely unremarkable adults at a restaurant. That's what it looks like to the public; at least in the US. I'm not saying it's underground, more that it's ... subtle. And it's really rare for it to be a 24/7 dom/sub thing. People have to go out and live their lives you know?

I got the impression they are just being generally "alternative to the norm".

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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

I see leash, I think slave. Or pet. Ownership of some kind.

Am I wrong? Maybe.

:shrug but that's just how I feel. Regardless, that's why this is in the danger room, because people will have different opinions. That said, I just don't like it. Would I be mean or unfair to someone like that bluntly? No. Do I get the Bus drivers posistion? Yes. Do I respect how he handled it? Hellll no.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I recant my above position on this. As someone who should practice what they preach, I am going to say it here now, and continue to strive for this idea from now on.

I am no longer going to let peoples life styles effect me or bother me because it's not my life nor is it my choice, and it doesn't pertain to my life, so why do I bother being concerned with other peoples lifestyles?

I'm not saying any-one person here is right or wrong, I'm saying that it doesn't effect my life, so I'm ducking out and will now practice as I preach and not let peoples "out of the norm" ways bother me.

:cool

[Edited on 10/4/08 by Ult_Sm86]
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Post by The Drastic Spastic »

Originally posted by Saint Kurt
Why are we assuming that they are living a BDSM lifestyle?

In general BDSM players don't parade their activities around in public this way. Just like the rest of the world, what they do in the "bedroom" (or the living room, or the kitchen, or the dungeon, or where ever...) stays there.

If you live in a large city, you've probably walked by the doors of private, members only BDSM dungeons/clubs without even knowing it. If you live in a smaller town, you might have noticed a gathering of completely unremarkable adults at a restaurant. That's what it looks like to the public; at least in the US. I'm not saying it's underground, more that it's ... subtle. And it's really rare for it to be a 24/7 dom/sub thing. People have to go out and live their lives you know?

I got the impression they are just being generally "alternative to the norm".

-e
I think the phrase you were looking for was ATTENTION WHORES.

I also cracked up at the line about what nice-ass clothes the gov't bought them. That's exactly what I thought when I read this article back in January. You are on a roll!
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