How Old is Old Enough?

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Ult_Sm86
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

There are many things this topic/debate could be about but it relates to how old is just old enough to watch a movie or read a book?

In all honesty as an english teacher I feel I'm going to face this one almost right away, and with my point of view on it I'll be challenged for sure, but I'm tenacious about this.

My sister is 15. She sat down with me to watch the film "Crash" but my mother went ape poop and told me that she is not old enough to watch it. She then tried to force us to put in something like Monsters Inc. (don't get me wrong great movie but that's a heck of a gap to go from Don Cheadle to Fuzzy blue monsters). I fought it a bit, I'll be honest.

I brought up how she is allowed to read "To Kill a Mockingbird" in highschool, and watch the film as well (part of my mom's argument was she doesn't need the depressing visuals) but she is not allowed to watch "Crash" on her own when she has shown HER OWN interest into the film. I asked her where the sense in that was and she said that "Crash" is darker than "Mockingbird". I told her that at least the person who is killed in the end of the film is grieved for and the killer is remorseful, where as "Mockingbird" is about a community rallied together to lynch someone, and the only sensible man left in town battles for his life in the court. I asked where the great divide was in that and her reply is that "Crash" is just darker, there's nothing uplifting about the film at all. I retort with "Why is she allowed to read Edgar Allan Poe? There's nothing uplifting in that at all. House of Usher is sickeningly depressing, as is Cask of Amontillado." She told me that I didn't know what i was talking about and "Crash" was too violent. I pointed out that poe cuts people up and hides them in walls and that in X-men (which my sister is perfectly fine watching) Wolverine sliced and diced a couple dozen troops.

I won the debate until she made the point that she's the mother (although i do feel she's squashing my sister doing this) and my sister knows it's ridiculous but she has insisted some day when mom is not around we are to watch it. I told her that if there is anything she doesn't understand, not that she won't, I'll be there to answer questions. Now obviously I'm not going to pop "SAW" in but I'll be honest she has so many friends and has come across so many opportunities to see that film already I'm sure and she has told me she's not interested. I don't blame her. It's pointless violence. "CRASH" is a beautiful film about the human society in an inner city, about racism and sexism, about how everyone, on every level, has a certain type of prejudice and how it can affect someone directly or indirectly.

I just want to know, what do you guys think? Am I right (aside from the I'm only the brother) but I mean, where is the line in the sand here? When I want to show my students a movie that will move them to be better people, see their mistakes in society, such as "Crash" or (lord forbid) "Mystic River" will I have to have this fight every time? I don't understand why we fight for our kids to read more but lord forbid they see it on the television! Or even the parents who won't allow the kids to read the books even! Lord forbid they read "Night" by Elie Wiesel and start THINKING about how BAD the holocaust was right? Or what if I have my students read the book, then I show them "Schindler's List". Will I be extradited for it? Will I be castrated and even crucified because I related two similar pieces of artwork that are both equally upsetting but moving to the human heart? I just...I don't understand, someone please help me see it.

[Edited on 22/12/07 by Ult_Sm86]
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by wingyding »

Funnily enough I watched my first R rated movie at age nine. It's a movie, and not real. And let's face it people, kids really aren't stupid enough to go from perfectly normal--this obviously excludes the psychotics among us--to murderous rampage in the time it takes to watch Freddy Vs. Jason.
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

But this also isn't freddy vs. jaosn. I mean i get where my mother and other moms are coming from, this is real stuff, really offensive to other people. But like you said, kids aren't that dumb. My sister isn't gonna run outside and start yelling the "N" word to every black person in her path. She isn't going to start assuming all hispanic people are good for is fixing door knobs and other house tasks (as the Character Sandra Bullock plays in "Crash" does). I mean, let's face it, KIDS AREN'T DUMB. But they CAN BE, if you don't show them this stuff. If you show someone something it's different then explaining it. They can see it, and even feel it. Maybe when it happens to them it'll show them as well.
I just don't understand why a Kid can't watch a movie that might benefit them or why they're allowed to read one thing and not see another, when the two are completely related.
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by Crocodile Hunter »

Originally posted by Ult_Sm86

My sister is 15. She sat down with me to watch the film "Crash" but my mother went ape poop and told me that she is not old enough to watch it.

[Edited on 22/12/07 by Ult_Sm86]
Your sister is 15 and shes going to highschool? That's... Pretty lame then, I watched Total Recal when I was 10 and I don't really think it had an affection on me. Also I watched Ichi The Killer when I was 15. :P

One guy actually asked "Can I watch this movie with my son?" (King Kong remake) in an IMDB board, his son was 17 years old. ;)

Yeah some people really go too far with that age thing.
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by Angelique »

I'm going to kind of take the mother's side here. She evidently is familiar with all that other stuff your sister reads, she may read movie reviews and synopses, and that movie didn't get an R rating for nothing now, did it?

It's simplistic to say that people who don't want kids watching certain movies think that one single movie is going to completely change their world view for the worse. I don't think anybody believes that. Rather, the legitimate concern is about the cumulative effect of all our influences. One movie added to all of our ever more pervasive media can make a difference.

Furthermore, if there's a conflict between your mother and your sister about it, let your sister take the opportunity to prove she's a big girl and handle her own battles. Also you don't risk undermining your mother's credibility in your sister's eyes and a create a scenario in which your sister thinks she can turn to you for help in circumventing your mother's authority. Her perspective is different. She may notice things in your sister that you don't, and may have legitimate reasons for disagreeing with you about what benefit a certain R rated movie can have a 15 year old, even if it is just that she doesn't want to pile more dark stuff on the girl.

I, for one, would never take a 15 year old to see an R rated movie. Some are too much even for me, and I'm at least twice that age.

Reading, on the other hand, is different, as you can filter it through your own imagination and have a little more control over how you visualize what's taking place, so I would not compare watching an R rated movie where someone gets killed to reading a book in which pretty much the same thing or even worse happens.

[Edited on 22/12/2007 by Angelique]
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Ult_Sm86
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Originally posted by Crocodile Hunter
Your sister is 15 and shes going to highschool? That's... Pretty lame then, I watched Total Recal when I was 10 and I don't really think it had an affection on me. Also I watched Ichi The Killer when I was 15. :P
This movie isn't about Arnold snapping people's necks though, this isn't a mindless violence movie this is a movie with an actual message. That's what's even lamer.


I'm going to kind of take the mother's side here. She evidently is familiar with all that other stuff your sister reads, she may read movie reviews and synopses, and that movie didn't get an R rating for nothing now, did it?

It's simplistic to say that people who don't want kids watching certain movies think that one single movie is going to completely change their world view for the worse. I don't think anybody believes that. Rather, the legitimate concern is about the cumulative effect of all our influences. One movie added to all of our ever more pervasive media can make a difference.

Furthermore, if there's a conflict between your mother and your sister about it, let your sister take the opportunity to prove she's a big girl and handle her own battles. Also you don't risk undermining your mother's credibility in your sister's eyes and a create a scenario in which your sister thinks she can turn to you for help in circumventing your mother's authority. Her perspective is different. She may notice things in your sister that you don't, and may have legitimate reasons for disagreeing with you about what benefit a certain R rated movie can have a 15 year old, even if it is just that she doesn't want to pile more dark stuff on the girl.

I, for one, would never take a 15 year old to see an R rated movie. Some are too much even for me, and I'm at least twice that age.

Reading, on the other hand, is different, as you can filter it through your own imagination and have a little more control over how you visualize what's taking place, so I would not compare watching an R rated movie where someone gets killed to reading a book in which pretty much the same thing or even worse happens.
This is Crash though. I'm not talking about others. I don't show my sister SAW because
a) she's not interested
and
b) it's too much for her.

But if my mom is so "aware" of her reading habits then why is it okay for my sister to be FORCED to read edgar allan poe for a school grade but she can't watch "Crash" by CHOICE? The whole thing is contradicting. And movies are FREQUENTLY rated "R" for no reason. The movie SUPERBAD only made an"R" rating because of 15 references of sexual organs in slang terms (which is three more tan allowed by a pg-13 film) and said the "F" bomb about four times too many. There's actually STANDARDS for how many TIMES you can swear in a Rated R movie and how much BLOOD you are allowed to see. The whole MPAA rating system is rigged and often times can be the cause for a movie failing/succeeding. "CRASH" deserves an "R" rating because of it's content, but to me CONTENT is a stupid term anyways. We're allowed to read the "Content" in "NIGHT" by Elie Wiesel at age 13 in Junior High School, but we're not allowed to see films such as "Band of Brothers" or "Schindler's List" or "Crash" even because they're "too violent" or "too dark." In regards to Night, what's darker then a child watching his whole family BURNED TO DEATH IN A FURNACE. Being forced into a work camp? Nothing. I cried, I BAWLED in "Schindler's List" just as I did in while reading "Night", I believe, the both pieces made me a better person.

Am I going over mom's head? Yes. Is that uncalled for? Probably. But as I see it, my sister will never learn to speak for herself if she doesn't see SOMEONE standing up to my mom, and I always tell her "Don't give mom LIP just prove your POINT. You will lose most times, because she's MOM, but don't ever disrespect her just make your case." I made my case to my mother and I got turned down, and I wasn't surprised, but I was (as you can see) aggravated to say the least. I've seen my sister give my mom lip before and I don't let her get away with it, being sure to point out all mom does for us. But I also point out to my mom when she's going too harsh on my sister. I've won on that a couple of times. Not often, but sometimes.

The point is, as an English Teacher, there will be a Day where I will show "Lord of the Flies" the movie after I've read the book (because I plan on being a film lit teacher) and I'll have to send a slip home for parents to sign. Why do they have to sign off for the film but not the book? What about "Jungle Book?" The live action one that is? What if I teach British lit and read some Kipling and decide to show the Kaa scene in that film? That involves Carey Elwes being eaten alive by a 30ft anaconda, that's pretty gruesome right? Or if I read to them "Green Mile" and then i want to show them the film? What makes the MOVIE so much more offensive? Nothing! if anything the novel holds more material for offense than anything, and you don't see (a lot of) parents taking that from their kids hands when they're looking through their "Summer Reading List". I just think the whole thing is crooked.

[Edited on 23/12/07 by Ult_Sm86]
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by german_gremlin »

She 15 and under Mom's house..so she's in charge. I agree that she's old enough to watch some more mature films but she's still a kid until 18. That means she may be old enough on the outside but maybe still not ready on the inside. Trust Mom...she knows more than ya know.
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by Crocodile Hunter »

Originally posted by german_gremlin
She 15 and under Mom's house..so she's in charge. I agree that she's old enough to watch some more mature films but she's still a kid until 18. That means she may be old enough on the outside but maybe still not ready on the inside. Trust Mom...she knows more than ya know.
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by HoodedMan »

I don't think you're ever going to get an answer that satisfies you, Ult_Sm86. I agree partly with Angelique when she points out your reductio ad absurdum fallacy: Of course it's not going to suddenly change her personality and worldview, but at a young age, it'll certainly contribute. And when you argue your point of books vs. movies: Well, movies, by their very nature, are more graphic. You read into a book what you want to read. If you can't handle the content of a scene you're reading, you can and do automatically tone it down as much as possible. You can't do that with movies.

And finally, the point is that your mother said no, and she is the ultimate authority at this point. Going over her head is completely disrespectful.
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Maybe.

But in the end she chose to watch it by herself. I found out a bout two days ago, i had completely forgotten about it. She asked me if I thought the movie said a lot about society in america or if I felt that it was a poor generalization. I told her, "Doesn't matter what I think, you need to make those opinions for yourself." And she said "Yeah..." and went off on her merry way.

:shrug is she going to go blast black people with guns now? no. Does she understand that much more now about stereotypes and racism? Yup.

Did I go against my mom? At first. But in the end she's the one who sat down by herself and popped it in. It was in MY room in MY closet, she made the concerted effort to see the movie on her own after her english teacher cited it during class. In the end, everythings fine. My sister isn't gonna go watch Halloween just because I tell her its cool, and she's seen an incredible movie and got something out of it. ....I mean really...what else is there left to say?
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How Old is Old Enough?

Post by GreenLanternGrl »

Originally posted by Ult_Sm86
Maybe.

But in the end she chose to watch it by herself. I found out a bout two days ago, i had completely forgotten about it. She asked me if I thought the movie said a lot about society in america or if I felt that it was a poor generalization. I told her, "Doesn't matter what I think, you need to make those opinions for yourself." And she said "Yeah..." and went off on her merry way.

:shrug is she going to go blast black people with guns now? no. Does she understand that much more now about stereotypes and racism? Yup.

Did I go against my mom? At first. But in the end she's the one who sat down by herself and popped it in. It was in MY room in MY closet, she made the concerted effort to see the movie on her own after her english teacher cited it during class. In the end, everythings fine. My sister isn't gonna go watch Halloween just because I tell her its cool, and she's seen an incredible movie and got something out of it. ....I mean really...what else is there left to say?
Hey if her english teacher cited it, i'd say it was ok for her to watch.
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