Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

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fourpawsonthefloor
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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

I found this a good read.

I also really like how churches are starting to promote the idea of global 'earth' responsibility as well. The more the merrier.

Awesome :D

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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by The Drastic Spastic »

His comments appear to be an endorsement of the doctrine of intelligent design.
No they don't. :? Unless this refers to comments not included in the article.
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fourpawsonthefloor
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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

Well, basically he said - yes evolution, but God had a hand in it. To me that = intelligent design. What's your take on it?

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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by Saint Kurt »

Intelligent design is a ridiculous theory that evolution cannot have occured in the way it is commonly believed to have occured. It states that at some point there are elements of life that are too infintessimally small and complex (they use the term "irreducable complexity") to have possibly occured by chance and that these elements were zapped into existance lock, stock, and barrel during Genesis by God.

Common examples are things like flagella on bacteria and the blood clotting cascade. Things that seem like they could have never happened by chance via genetic ressortment.

The Catholic church has never endorsed the theory of intelligent design. The church endorses the modern view of Darwin's evolution as it is taught in science text books. (And that God has a hand in it because God has a hand in all good things. Remember, evolution is happening now. :))

So if the writer of the article is suggesting that Benedict is endorsing it, then either he doesn't know what intelligent design is or he's just putting words in the Pope's mouth. Possibly both.

I guess I should read the article...

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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

Ahh ok. I wasn't fully aware of what intelligent design was then. LOL

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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by Freak »

Oooooh, intelligent design! My mortal enemy!

No, seriously, the Pope isn't stupid enough to openly endorse it, in case it's declared illegal one day, like its predecessor creationism.

What he said though is, that evolution happens too slowly to be proven, which allows him to deny or accept it in any way he wants :D

(He's wrong, though. The bacterium Escherichia coli has one complete generation within 20 minutes. Since the early seventies a single strand of of E. coli has been held under varrying conditions, which resulted in the creation of completely new strands, which, held under different conditions, evolve in more strands again :D)
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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by Freak
Oooooh, intelligent design! My mortal enemy!

No, seriously, the Pope isn't stupid enough to openly endorse it, in case it's declared illegal one day, like its predecessor creationism.

What he said though is, that evolution happens too slowly to be proven, which allows him to deny or accept it in any way he wants :D

(He's wrong, though. The bacterium Escherichia coli has one complete generation within 20 minutes. Since the early seventies a single strand of of E. coli has been held under varrying conditions, which resulted in the creation of completely new strands, which, held under different conditions, evolve in more strands again :D)
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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by The Drastic Spastic »

Originally posted by Freak
No, seriously, the Pope isn't stupid enough to openly endorse it, in case it's declared illegal one day, like its predecessor creationism.
I don't think the Pope is stupid at all, and I doubt he would endorse ID even if he thought he could get away with it. He's sticking with the popular theory where evolution happened just as science says, but God created the laws of physics and gave everything a push to get started.

When was creationism declared "illegal"?
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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by Freak »

Uh, you beat me there, sorry ;)
I only know that it's illegal to teach that God created everything and that the world is only a few thousand years old in school (=creationsim. Maybe i should have mentioned that earlier. It's not illegal to say out loud that you believe that stuff. You're just not allowed to teach it.)
There have been several incarnations of that creationism yet, which all didn't last long. ID is the first one to stand a good chance to stay. It's basically the same, but there are small differences.

For example, you have textbooks which are cheap and really good, and they tell you that there was evolution and all, and it's good. BUT: if you look at the evolutionary trees, they don't start at only one point. And if you read the book exactly, it only admits microevolution. So, God still created everything, and it evolved from there on. Tuto presto, legally teachable bullshit :D

And yes, I am indeed a bit biased if it comes to ID. This is bc of the rather sect-like practices some of those believers work with. Only one example: If there is a professor/scientist who is openly against ID and says so in journals and other publications, there will be some of the ID folks who try to defame his work by trying to prove his experiments where fraud. And that's just not ok, since it can at worst simply destroy one person's life. ><
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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by Saint Kurt »

Okay. I read the article. And it's the least informative thing I've ever read about ... anything. Like - the worst journalism ever.

What I got from it:
- The Pope agrees that scientifically, Darwin's theory of evolution looks solid.
- But, he thinks that theologically there are still questions, but they are philosophical not scientific.
- The Pope isn't sure why people insist on using science as an excuse to "remove God" from the big picture of "why we are here", but offers no alternative solution other than that he personally doesn't see it that way.

The journalist then makes all kinds of assumptions to make Benedict's statements seem more groundbreaking and controversial than they really are. I don't even see the quote Freak is talking about.

Oh well. Carry on then.

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Pope Benedict: Evolution is real.

Post by CurlyyHairGirl »

Originally posted by Saint Kurt
Okay. I read the article. And it's the least informative thing I've ever read about ... anything. Like - the worst journalism ever.

What I got from it:
- The Pope agrees that scientifically, Darwin's theory of evolution looks solid.
- But, he thinks that theologically there are still questions, but they are philosophical not scientific.
- The Pope isn't sure why people insist on using science as an excuse to "remove God" from the big picture of "why we are here", but offers no alternative solution other than that he personally doesn't see it that way.
I got that from this as well.

The journalist then makes all kinds of assumptions to make Benedict's statements seem more groundbreaking and controversial than they really are.

-e
Well thats media isn't it?
As far as the article is concerned, there isn't enough information to move me, at least. I have to agree with Zam (oh yes, I remember the days when you were zamweasle) that it really isn't very informative. I fully believe in evolution btu there is always room for more facts...and as far as the article goes...there are things as of yet unexplained. I mean, ID, yes, it is a THEORY...theories, by definition, are proposed explanations for observations and laws. That is not to say they ARE law. Not until proven...which creation HAS NOT been proven..yet. ID is valid to those who want to believe it...as is the Big Bang theory.

Anyway, isn't the Pope entitled to his own beliefs? I mean, come on, every one is one in their own...for the media to hype it like this writer did seem more like a means to gain shock points vs. being informative.

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