I guess everyone has their limits...

[Saint Kurt]

Generally I feel pretty solid on my opinions about abortion. I try to stay scientific about it because that's how I'm comfortable. As a political platform I'm WAY uncomfortable because I think too many politicans are in office for being "pro-life" when the rest of what they stood for was a bunch of crap.

As a religious issue I get fuzzy mainly because I have a lot of limits on where I see it as a valid option (based entirely on scientific fact). Then sort of at the end of all those facts, I tack on "And it's such a Goddamned miracle that it happens in the first place, why would anyone want to stop it?" (I'm not saying this is the right way to think about it, it's just how I do.)

But I realized that I generally conceive of the notion of pregnacy and birth occuring in healthy mothers who have options such as good prenatal care leading to adoption etc. available to them.

The other day I was shocked to discover how limited I was being. I'm not going to link to it, but I read this post on a Catholic board:

A woman my mom is aquainted with (Jill) is considering "terminating" her pregnancy. She's in her 40s, has CP, 4 children, is in her first trimester, and the doctor found a lump in her breast. She said that if anything is wrong she'll terminate the pregnancy. My mom let Jill know her stand against abortion, and offerred to help in any way possible whether it's watching her kids (at my mom's) if she's on bedrest or anyhting, and asked if I could help out at their own house. Please pray for baby, mother, family, docstors and everyone invloved.

This messes with my world view. The reason is that the mother's life is in danger and not only does the prayer request put the child first, but after awhile responders stopped mentioning the mother in their "I'll definitely pray" replies.

My first thought though was: "What about her other living children?" And then once it was made clear that the mother's life was in danger (apparently the lump can't be biopsied while she's pregnant?) it seemed like this was one case where you say "God, sorry, I can't serve you if I'm dead - please forgive me" and do the "wrong" thing. I don't even know if this woman is Catholic or not and people are praying that she risk her life for their beliefs. It messed with my head.

So, then someone brought up praying for the intercession of St. Gianna.

Who is St. Gianna?

Well, she was a physician who martyred herself rather than face terminating her pregnacy and was made a saint for it.

This seemed ridiculous to me. Dr. Gianna Molla had 2 living children as well and her condition was totally operable if she sacrificed her pregnancy, but she chose to have the child and died a week later of ovarian cancer (which is a really really painful death by the way). I was like ... Why? And she was canonized in 2004 - it seemed so ... backward.

Then I realized, the Catholic Church loves martyrs and this woman did not enter her decision lightly. She was a pediatrician who practiced her Catholic faith every day in her duties as a doctor. She knew what she was doing - what she was risking and didn't ask anyone to do anything but respect her choice. It's an intense choice to be sure, but no one should force a woman to kill her unborn child anymore than they should force her not to.

It took a good two weeks of thinking about it on and off for me to realize she wasn't crazy - she was just absolutely 100% solid to the core when it came to what she believed. So solid she was willing to die for it - the true definition of a martyr. Maybe if St. Gianna had died to ... end slavery or feed the starving it wouldn't be so hard to understand her. For instance I don't think anyone doubts Mother Teresa's sainthood - it's just a matter of time before she's canonized for her work with the poor and it was so obvious the good that she did. But this St. Gianna... She makes you stop and think. And that's not a bad thing.

So, what did I get from all this? There's always a new lesson out there. I thought I had a pretty solid grasp on how to consider abortion as an issue and was a pretty solid Catholic as well.

It turns out everyone has their limits. I don't think I could do what St. Gianna did.

-e


(PS - I'm not posting this to spark a debate on whether or not abortion is right or wrong. I think we all know that we all have different opinions for different reasons and I'm good with that. I was more fascinated by how something like a little post on some random forum can really get under your skin and start you thinking about an issue - because that's why internet communities are cool no?)

[idsunki]

Well thought-out post. I like to think that I have beliefs that I would die for, but who knows, really?

It's like a wise Mighty Mighty Bosstone once said - "Look at the tested, and think there but for the grace go I / Might be a coward, I'm afraid of what I might find out."

But is it so bad a thing not to be able to stand up against impossible odds, or make decisions no one should ever have to make?

[NachtcGleiskette]

I've been going over this in my head since it was posted trying to figure out where I stand...and then kind of thought I don't really need to "stand" anywhere, but here are my thoughts

At first I thought, yeah St. Gianna seems nuts, but the whole "solid to the core Catholic" really does deserve some credit. I'm not sure 100% she made the right decision, as she had children who had to grow up without a mother, but she made the decision that was right for her, and that's good enough. I think the point is not whether this is right or wrong as a whole, but whether its right or wrong for whomever is having to face such a tough decision.

As for her being sainted....I can see her being sainted for having such undying devotion to the church to die for it like that, but I hope it's not used as an example to preach against abortion in cases such as that. Not every woman has that kind of strength, and in fact that kind of strength seems sort of...way out there. Not crazy, but like...above and beyond what alot of us have. Not everyone has what it takes to be a St. Gianna, and thats not a bad thing. This poor woman who is so sick and faced with having to go against what she believes in order to survive and continue to be a mother to her children who already exist needs support from her community, and prayers for her for strength. Sometimes it seems like more thought and rights are given to potential human beings over actual living ones. Does this unborn child have more a right to life than it's mother? Does its deserving to exist preclude the happiness and well being of its sister(s) and/or brother(s)?

Anyway, very interesting Em. Made me think for a while . I think to summize, St. Gianna was not right or wrong, and neither is this woman for her decision. Its a personal decision and should be respected as such.

[Angelique]

Well, according to her beliefs, she was right. There is that critical verse (the inclusion of women is implied therein), "Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

There's also the idea that a fetus is no less an "already living" or "already existing" child as a child who's been born.

At any rate, though, I'm not going to judge a woman in that situation harshly. Being told it's your life or the baby's is scary enough as it is. If a woman chooses abortion under those circumstances, she's judged as not loving the baby enough, and if she does not choose abortion, she's judged for being "nuts," reckless, or not caring enough for her already born children.

[Edited on 5/2/2007 by Angelique]