Wow ... I hadn't found this thread yet til the update ... I can't believe there are actually two people alive (and WOMEN at that!) who understand how I feel about the correctness of *not* having female priests.
Only for my own part, I know that when I quit being Catholic as a teenager, it was b/c I felt women were being discriminated against. It was, for me, about power and rights and getting even. But I always wanted to be a guy b/c it seemed to me they had all the cool stuff anyway. I would have given all the Barbies my Mom gave me, if she would only have let me have a Tonka Truck!!!!
Now as an old fogie, I see there is a deep, mystical symbolism which our age is not ready to accept, but that God teaches us about Himself (herself, whatever melts your butter) through physical things and allegory. So I agree with the Church about lots of things -- including the priesthood being male -- because it's all about asking for faith to trust the authority God chooses, and realising it's a **messy** business and each age has its struggles.
Angelique, I am not sure about the female diaconate thing; it depends on what sources you choose to look at. I'm open to it, but uncertain.
I still can't believe there are other people who accept the teaching. I feel goooooooddddd......
Ordination of Women as Roman Catholic Priests
- Elfdame
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Ordination of Women as Roman Catholic Priests
"Humanity is a parade of fools, and I am at the front of it, twirling a baton." From Chapter 9 of _Brother Odd_ by Dean Koontz / from Chapter 10: "Life you can evade; death you cannot."
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Ordination of Women as Roman Catholic Priests
I can, but I don't see people like us speaking up much in the media.Originally posted by Elfdame Angelique, I am not sure about the female diaconate thing; it depends on what sources you choose to look at. I'm open to it, but uncertain.
I still can't believe there are other people who accept the teaching. I feel goooooooddddd......
As for women in the diaconate, I can cite Romans 16:1. "I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is also a minister of the church at Cenchreae."
The word "minister" was translated from the Greek word....
diakonos.
That being said, we don't know exactly what role the diaconate had in the Early Church, but this is still food for thought.
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It is sad. And it still happens unfortunately.Originally posted by Love das flockige
.... it is sad to see anyone excommunicated from the Church. Kind of a shock to me, actually- I've never heard of anyone from our time be excommunicated.
Here is a list of specific people excommunicated by the Catholic Church in this century.
It is a strict punishment, but I don't think it is undertaken lightly.
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The role of women in the Church has always been underrated, I think. Nuns who devote their lives to God are just as hardworking, devoute, and deserving of respect as priests, yet it seems like many who are against banning women from the priesthood don't see that. The difference between nuns and priests is that nuns can't distribute the sacraments. That's all. While I do think that women in the early church had a bigger role than we are told to beleive, I also can't imagine getting married by a female priest. I guess it's just the raising? :
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Ordination of Women as Roman Catholic Priests
I think there may be a few more differences between priests and religious sisters than that, but they are not differences in what they can do. In fact, when it comes to service, priests, religious, and lay people (the rest of us) are all equals.
The main difference between sisters and priests is that a priest's ordination is a sacrament. If you think of Ordination as a sacrament similar to Baptism, then you have a good idea of how it works. Baptism, as the first sacrament received, "reserves" an individual for God and brings them into the Church. Holy Orders works similarly by reserving an already baptized individual for service to the Bishop (and thus to God and the Church). Both Baptism and Holy Orders are "permanent" sacraments that indelibly change the character of those receiving them. They can not be undone.
Nowhere does "respect" or "power" factor into ordination. Priests are bound to poverty, chastity, and obedience though and acting as an extension of the Bishop, may distribute the Eucharist, hear confessions, and preach the Gospel.
Religious brothers and sisters "profess" their vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience, but it is not a sacrament. They serve by personal choice and their vows bind them into service, but they are not indelible like that of Ordination. Theirs is more like a marriage to God and the Church instead of to another person. They are bound by a personal desire and therefore offer their obedience freely. Should a religious sister chose at any point to leave the order to which they have professed vows and stop being a nun, she may do so and leave with no strings attached. (A religious brother, or monk, who is not a priest, but a nun's male counterpart may do the same.)
A priest, on the other hand, is bound to their duties until they are dispensed of these obligations by their Bishop. Even then they can never stop being priests.
Hopefully that clears things up.
-e
The main difference between sisters and priests is that a priest's ordination is a sacrament. If you think of Ordination as a sacrament similar to Baptism, then you have a good idea of how it works. Baptism, as the first sacrament received, "reserves" an individual for God and brings them into the Church. Holy Orders works similarly by reserving an already baptized individual for service to the Bishop (and thus to God and the Church). Both Baptism and Holy Orders are "permanent" sacraments that indelibly change the character of those receiving them. They can not be undone.
Nowhere does "respect" or "power" factor into ordination. Priests are bound to poverty, chastity, and obedience though and acting as an extension of the Bishop, may distribute the Eucharist, hear confessions, and preach the Gospel.
Religious brothers and sisters "profess" their vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience, but it is not a sacrament. They serve by personal choice and their vows bind them into service, but they are not indelible like that of Ordination. Theirs is more like a marriage to God and the Church instead of to another person. They are bound by a personal desire and therefore offer their obedience freely. Should a religious sister chose at any point to leave the order to which they have professed vows and stop being a nun, she may do so and leave with no strings attached. (A religious brother, or monk, who is not a priest, but a nun's male counterpart may do the same.)
A priest, on the other hand, is bound to their duties until they are dispensed of these obligations by their Bishop. Even then they can never stop being priests.
Hopefully that clears things up.
-e
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Ordination of Women as Roman Catholic Priests
Well, I wouldn't say that the vows of a religious sister or monk are like being married to the Church, because marriage is regarded by the Church much more like Holy Orders in that it's a sacrament and cannot be undone. I don't think nuns leaving their order have to go through an annulment tribunal to prove that their vows were null and void.
I suppose it's the priest who's married to the Church. Compared to that, religious brothers and sisters could be said to have made friendship pledges with the Church. I don't know. Regardless, a priest can't walk from his priesthood, and even if I were nuts enough to try, I couldn't walk from my marriage.
I suppose it's the priest who's married to the Church. Compared to that, religious brothers and sisters could be said to have made friendship pledges with the Church. I don't know. Regardless, a priest can't walk from his priesthood, and even if I were nuts enough to try, I couldn't walk from my marriage.
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Ordination of Women as Roman Catholic Priests
lol, I love that guy. He's such a jerk.Originally posted by fourpawsonthefloor
Seems like benedict threw it down.
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