I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:32 pm

Here's why... look for the really long post.

Are my reasons that off base? I've heard people say both yes and no. I'm wondering what your opinions are.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:37 pm

You'll probably find that not too many people on the board agree with or care for Bush, and even fewer will vote for him this November. (That entire Popular Vote vs. Electoral College Vote" thing still has some people snarling.)

So far, I haven't found anything specifically bad on Kerry. The link to his superior officers claiming he's "not fit to be Commander-in-Chief" is a bit of an eye opener, or at least an eyebrow raiser to me. But from all the stuff that has happened with Bush, especially the allegations that he went into Iraq more because he wanted to than anything else, and that whole Guantanamo Bay idea of holding people incommunicado indefinitely.... I'm honestly not sure who could be worse on this.

The Nazi Germany allegation is a good one to make, because it *does* show what happens when people vote against someone as opposed to for someone. However, I don't think it's not quite fair here. Why? Because in this day and age of "data-mining", it's going to be hell for anyone with an extremist bent to coast along in this culture. Pat Buchanan has never been in the running because of this, and the same goes for Pat Robertson, Lyndon Larouche (despite his little "I'm a Democrat" shennanigans in the late 80s), and even going back further with people like Barry Goldwater.

Ironically, it seems that the more "extreme" people are on the Republican's side, not the Democrats, becaus the Republicans have been courting the Religious Right. Given the statistics of the past elections, I think I'm safer in choosing Kerry than in chosing someone who has single-handedly made America into an international bully....

shakspear · Post by **shakspear** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:52 pm

Who you vote for really should be your own decision and really should be private. Starting a political debate here is way out there, especially knowing that most people here could care less for your choice. But, hey, if that's your thing-go for it. I personally am keeping my vote to myself:rolleyes:p

Singe · Post by **Singe** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:14 pm

Okay, I want everyone to vote for Kerry. My reasons are pretty selfish and simple, but they're good enough for me. Here's why I don't want Bush to be reelected.

I don't want to die in a firey ball. Now, I'm not saying Bush would be directly responsible, but here's how I see it. A LOT of people, a lot of terrorists specifically, REALLY hate Bush. Hatred for Bush in mind, they might be more likely to nuke/attack/throw insults at my dear New York city, and that would mean that I would die. I don't want to die just yet; I haven't even picked a major. Way I see it, with Bush gone, I stand less chance of bodily harm. So vote for Kerry, because you don't want me to die.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:01 am

I'm not going to say that you shouldn't vote for who you want to, I would just advise you to do some research which was inspired by the opposite of what you are voting for, i.e. If you plan to vote for Bush, PLEASE go see Fereinheit 9/11. Its very informative and I learned a lot. If you plan to vote Democrat, go on the internet and read about everything that you are agreeing to and read the opinions of republicans, though not neccesarily conservative ones. There are a lot of less conservative republicans out there that are not considered actual republicans because they have personal preferences on certain issues.

Dark Rose Siren · Post by **Dark Rose Siren** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:49 am

at least your're going to vote- a lot of people dont & they should
i'm still not sure who i'll vote for
(but believe me i WILL be voting)
personally i cant stand Kerry & i dont agree
with alot of what bush has done (so theres really not not of a choose)

but the important thing is to get out there & vote, ITS YOUR RIGHT, HAVE YOUR VOICE BE HEARD
(oh & singe, the terrorists not only hate Bush, they hate everything- America, Christians, Jews, anyone who doesnt believe in the same thing they do )

kurtlover · Post by **kurtlover** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:31 pm

I totally agree with Shak, your voting decision should be private, your own decision...

And i would like to have this place free of politic discussions, since "Off of topics" is merely to have fun.
That's why i decide to close this thread, thanks.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:56 pm

aaaand i decided to open it again. many people want to keep their voting decisions private. that's fine. no one is forcing anyone to reveal their political stance in this thread. Outlaw wanted to share his. that's also his right.

and we have the big bad religion thread in Off-topic antics, i fail to see how we should not be allowed to speak of politics if we are discussing an equally touchy subject of religion. off topics isn't just for fun stuff. it's just for stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere, so long as it's within the other rules. can be serious. can also be silly.

kurtlover · Post by **kurtlover** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:14 pm

Ok, it stays opened

you're right as always, but i still don't agree in making voting decisions public :p

Bamf Bunny · Post by **Bamf Bunny** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:29 pm

Originally posted by Bamfette
and we have the big bad religion thread in Off-topic antics, i fail to see how we should not be allowed to speak of politics if we are discussing an equally touchy subject of religion.

Which I personally think should be closed, given the amount of trolling that's gone on there. I'd rather see no flamebait threads than ten.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:55 pm

I think, compared to most other forums religion threads, that one has been remarkably civil, actually.... a bit of inadvertent insulting stuff based on ignorance or thoughtlessness, but it gets cleared up straight away, most times... no one, like in other forums religion threads i have seen, is trying to witness anyone, or proclaim someone elses beliefs 'wrong' or stupid....

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:53 pm

Originally posted by Gaz
I'm not going to say that you shouldn't vote for who you want to, I would just advise you to do some research which was inspired by the opposite of what you are voting for, i.e. If you plan to vote for Bush, PLEASE go see Fereinheit 9/11. Its very informative and I learned a lot. If you plan to vote Democrat, go on the internet and read about everything that you are agreeing to and read the opinions of republicans, though not neccesarily conservative ones. There are a lot of less conservative republicans out there that are not considered actual republicans because they have personal preferences on certain issues.

Eh... I have a problem with that. I'm sure Michael Moore's film is quite entertaining, but that's what it is, entertainment. Moore has no obligation to show both sides of the argument, or even to really tell the truth. Not to say that he's lying, I know he's not, but he's presented the issues from only one viewpoint, one that is markedly critical of Bush.

So while I may see that movie (and just because I personally don't like Michael Moore, I'll probably download it off WinMX in a nice display of extreme liberalism :p ), might I suggest you research the other side as well? Go out and talk to the troops, those who have been in Iraq, are going to Iraq, or even if you can find contacts, try and write a letter/email to those who are in the country right now. They're responses as to whether or not they support the President may just surprise you.

Garble · Post by **Garble** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:29 pm

Um, Fahrenheit 9/11 features troops in Iraq. Actually interviews them, even.

I don't see eye to eye with a lot of Moore's views.
Also I think he's unusually empassioned because of what happened to his home town. And that causes him to be so agressive in presenting his argument that he overplays the facts he gathers.

But that overzealousness drives him to look in places other people don't and dare to point out things and ask questions other people would be afraid to.
But all in all, he does present the truth. And he makes no claims to be unbiased.

I recomend seeing Fahrenheit 9/11, then deciding for yourself what conclusions to draw from his evidence.

BTW, Moore wouldn't have a problem with you downloading it.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:40 pm

Hmm, most interesting. I almost feel compelled to download it now.

By the way... ouch.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:49 pm

UPDATE: Saw the movie... and lost two hours of my life in the process. Exactly how was this movie supposed to be "powerful"? Its one big exaggeration, or at some points an outright [url=http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/]lie[/url], and to be honest, its not even put together well. Not clever, not terribly informative, didn't even really piss me off. It just plain... sucked.

I thought the liberals were supposed to be clever...

Bamf Bunny · Post by **Bamf Bunny** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:57 am

Originally posted by Winged Outlaw
Go out and talk to the troops, those who have been in Iraq, are going to Iraq, or even if you can find contacts, try and write a letter/email to those who are in the country right now.

I find it so hilarious that you think combat experience makes you better informed politically, and yet you're voting for the AWOL draft dodger and not the Vietnam vet with the Purple Stars.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:20 am

Kindly get your facts straight.

Kerry's war record has one very significant black eye. If every single one of his commanding officers denounces him... then I'd find Kerry's war credibility shaky at best... if not flat out ammunition for the Bush campaign.

Bamf Bunny · Post by **Bamf Bunny** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:23 am

Originally posted by Winged Outlaw
Kindly get your facts straight.

Which ones? Kerry did serve; he did receive the Purple Hearts.

And the article you cite doesn't claim that "all" of Kerry's commanders are criticizing him, Cap'n Facts.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:25 am

And several of his commanding officers have made claims that he didn't even deserve them.

Seriously, who do you choose? The college dropout, or the guy who got expelled? That's all we've got in this election.

I'm voting for Bush solely because I think it'll keep the guys who are fighting happy. If you think a Democrat in office will end the fighting in Iraq, you're fooling yourself.

Bamf Bunny · Post by **Bamf Bunny** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:29 am

Originally posted by Winged Outlaw
I'm voting for Bush solely because I think it'll keep the guys who are fighting happy.

Intriguingly, in the very article you cite, the guys who were fighting in Vietnam - the ones Kerry commanded - say this:

"In contrast to the commanders, all but one of the 15 or so men who served under Kerry's command have spoken highly of the senator, and many have said they eventually came to understand his opposition to the Vietnam War." And you want to keep them happy, right?

InterNutter · Post by **InterNutter** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:30 am

There's a $10000 prize for someone who can spot an innacuracy in that film, you know. So if you think you spotted a lie, go for the money.

All the facts have been checked by pros.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:37 am

Originally posted by InterNutter
There's a $10000 prize for someone who can spot an innacuracy in that film, you know. So if you think you spotted a lie, go for the money.

All the facts have been checked by pros.

I just posted a site filled with inaccuracies about that shameless piece of propaganda you just called a film.

The men who served under Kerry did so under harsh conditions, and it makes sense they'd bond over time. However, I trust his commanding officers as a better gage of his abilities.

Not to mention, I haven't met a single soldier in THIS war who's wanted to see Kerry in office.

Crawler · Post by **Crawler** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:49 am

Okay...so, pretend, for argument's sake, that you're right and Michael Moore's a big fat liar.

No one's dying because of his lying.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:57 am

Oooo witty. However, I've still yet to be convinced:

A) That Bush lied. A LOT of people assumed there were WMDs in Iraq. A lot of both Republicans, and Democrats. Not all of the intelligence was sound, but it wasn't all bogus either. And in the wake of 9/11, I would have gone in as well. Iraq is still far better off without Saddam anyway.

B) That a Democrat wouldn't have done the exact same fucking thing, exactly as fast, with the exact same intelligence.

I'm very cynical going into this... I don't like either side. And I see no reason to think Kerry will make things better, so I'm not going to make things worse for my friends there.

Crawler · Post by **Crawler** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:02 am

A) He used the WMDs as a pretense for war. That implies to the world that he is damned sure they're there. You do not go to war on an assumption.

B) Doesn't matter who else might have. He did. And he deserves the blame.