Updated Spring 2006 - What Marvel Lady Should Nightcrawler be With?

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Updated Spring 2006 - What Marvel Lady Should Nightcrawler be With?

 
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:46 pm

(paws actually reminded me of this and when I found it on scans_daily today i figured, post!)

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I htink it's pretty safe to say a guy who reacts like that to some random chick calling him Dad has been fucking around....
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Updated Spring 2006 - What Marvel Lady Should Nightcrawler b

Post by The Drastic Spastic » Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:06 pm

Originally posted by Angelique
Anjulie being an exception, that does strike me as out of character for Kurt. He's a flirt, but not necessarily the sort to sleep with a woman he's not at least convinced he loves. (I mean, he's a romantic, and there's no real romance in sex without love.) Finally, he's a hero. Even if what you say about "most people" is true, what it takes to be a hero in any universe is simply behaving better than "most people." (And if you doubt that, you should have heard what Stan Lee had to say on "Who Wants to be a Superhero" tonight.)
Yes, he's showing his true heroic colours in this scene where his lover kisses him and says she's missed him, and he freaks out over it until she runs off in tears. REAL HEROES MAKE GIRLS CRY.
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Updated Spring 2006 - What Marvel Lady Should Nightcrawler b

Post by Angelique » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:19 pm

Well, I've made no secret of the fact that I'm not always happy about how Nightcrawler has been written, did I? That scan is just one example of a funny line that is, nonetheless, not in character.

And Nocturne calling him Dad, then explaining that she can't really explain, is also out of character for her.

I still have to write that drabble about how at the time, he was fixing the weather stripping on that window, and said that line after discovering he accidentally got the glue on his hands.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:52 pm

I dunno, it seems like you are thinking of your expectations for Nightcrawler..and not the character as he is. Whether you like how he's written or not is kinda regardless...it's who he is. Thats not out of character for Nocturne. She'd called other versions of Nighty 'Dad' as well, and its not like they have time to explain alternate universes and the like with Alex killing everyone outside.

Up until Kurt became a priest, he was pretty much a ladies man. Whether he slept around or not? Who cares. We are giving canon evidence which suggests he does in fact have sex. I think if you could give us the same to defend your side it would help. Because saying that good Catholics or whatever just dont do this isn't holding any water. Exactly how much evidence do we have that Kurt is a star Catholic?
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Post by Angelique » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:38 pm

Correction. Did have sex.

And is it wrong for me to expect certain characters to be written certain ways? I don't expect to see Dust in a bikini. I don't expect to see Magneto and Shadowcat munching on bacon double cheeseburgers.

You give a character a religion, and you give that character a certain set of parameters within which they are expected to at least try to behave. I can understand a character doing something against his or her morals if it's a lapse in judgment or if they're caught in a moral dilemma. But for a character to profess a religion, then persistently and unrepentantly behave in a manner contrary to that faith is a different matter entirely. It is at best a sign of a writer's lack of research or poor grasp of the character.

So naturally, I expect to see Nightcrawler as, while by no means perfect, a flirt and a romantic who at least generally tries to keep it in his pants.
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Updated Spring 2006 - What Marvel Lady Should Nightcrawler b

Post by Confizzle » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:38 pm

Umm....we did see Dust scantily clad(at least for her) in a recent issue of New X-Men, and the evidence is tilting to Kurt having sex with more than Anjule, but of course why are we talking about the sex life of a comic book character, I think we may be getting a little too attached :smirk

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Post by Angelique » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:51 pm

House of M doesn't count. ;)
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:55 pm

Dude.....i may be blowing your mind here but here goes:

Nightcrawler is FAKE.

And havign expectations for a fake person? Whats the point? It's all about entertainment. There's canonical evidence he's slept around and NO canonical evidence he's tried to keep it in his pants. In fact one of the reason he was doubting his role in the priesthood was the fact he couldn't have sex (I'll dig that out..if I can remember the damn issue).

Anyway, my point is its in the books. Its there. Your point is "well, I dont think he's like that" in LIGHT of all the facts! So, believe what you want but don't ignore the FACTS.
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor » Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:06 pm

Yeah...I get that he may not be sticking to 'what a good catholic' does...but then there are a lot of catholics out there that don't. They still consider themselves catholics too.

I think that it wasn't spelt out quite so clearly in early issues, because comics were geared to another age. Now with them getting into a more mature audience they don't have to beat around the bush as much - hense the whole exiles issue.

Its canon. He's screwed. Saying "WHOOPS! Should have been more careful" when you see a kid that calls you daddy (kurts also got that whole priceless "OH SHIT" look on his face) rather than going "Wait! that is impossible" is pretty conclusive in my mind.

Fan fic is where people can imagine that he has always kept it in his pants, but you can't call it canon.

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Updated Spring 2006 - What Marvel Lady Should Nightcrawler b

Post by The Drastic Spastic » Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:18 pm

Isn't the expectation of Catholic girls that they are cock-hungry raging sluts? Then they find God again in their 30s and pretend all that never happened. But still. Saying someone's Catholic is like saying nothing at all. The majority of Catholics lapse... a lot. Even if it's not a majority, say, if it's only 25%, that's still hundreds of millions of people. His professed faith is entirely irrelevent to this issue. You can only go off what he ACTUALLY DOES. And what he does is fuck the heck out of warrior amazon princess chicks. (And the pathetic Amanda.) He prays sometimes, but... that has nothing to do with this.
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Post by Angelique » Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:09 pm

Nightcrawler is fake. But as a character written and described repeatedly as a devout Catholic, he represents a group of people that (brace yourselves!) happen to be real.

And Spaz, please don't judge Catholic girls by how they're portrayed in music videos and porn flicks.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:24 pm

Angelique, you generalize. Just because you believe that Catholics act a certain way, they all do. They don't. Catholics, just as any other group of people, are a wide spectrum. And people can fall anywhere within that spectrum.

Now, I will ask that you please start backing up your assessments. If you would like to back them up with "this is what I believe" that is fine. However, if you are going to claim something as fact you MUST back it up. You've been told this before.

Stay on topic. This isnt the Catholic thread, its a Nightcrawler thread. And Nightcrawler is still fake, regardless of what he may represent. He is also a comic book character and in no way is intended to be an accurate repsresentation of a Catholic person.
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Post by Angelique » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:34 am

I'm using his Catholic faith as one of a number of reasons for my opinion that he isn't screwing around off panel. It also happens to be a reason that hits rather close to home for me. Let's see. Chivalrous, a romantic, Catholic, and a hero to boot? He may have engaged in a few indiscretions, but it's not likely he's made a habit of off-panel promiscuity. Besides, as a comic book character, he isn't doing anything off panel anyway.

Finally, sure not all Catholics behave the same way. But they are all supposed to behave a certain way.

[Edited on 17/8/06 by Angelique]
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:43 am

All Catholics.....except the Galgamec Catholics. The Galgamec vagina is three feet long with razor sharp teeth!
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Updated Spring 2006 - What Marvel Lady Should Nightcrawler be With?

Post by Confizzle » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:01 am

Somehow it comes to South Park :LOL Where's the giant spider to make the decisions.....question if nothing happens off panel then how the hell do kids get born?? I mean like Cable for example.....

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Post by Angelique » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:03 am

Writers and artists create them, usually with some backstory (would that even be the right word) involving alternate future timelines. That's where comic book babies come from.
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor » Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:14 am

While technically nothing that happens off panel happens - there is a lot of implied stuff in comics. For example using the bathroom. While we all know that all food they eat goes SOMEWHERE...we have yet to see them take a dump, right? For that matter - time passes ect "off panel". All of this is implied.

Seeming as x-men are not the xxx-men - we do not get any sex scenes. However, sex is implied. Its a story - just like any other book. The writer relies on you taking the clues that they leave to fill in all the other details.
In other words you may get to imagine what sleeping in the mansion is like or well...what have you :naughty, because the writer can't write everything.

Now if we were saying - oh kurt must have boned someone cause hes just too hot not to have - I could get that being argueable. However the artists/writers have implied the shit out of it. They require that you figure out that things HAVE happened off panel that they can't show you directly.

IF nothing was implied, comics would have to take up exactly where the last one left off - to the minute. Even the passage of time is implied.

Now no one is saying that Kurt has screwed a ton of woman without a care in the world about it. However he's no virgin. A chivalrous, romantic, catholic, heroic...non virgin. And its all good in the hood.

Hey - did y' all know that Remy's a catholic too? HE definately ain't a virgin. :whistle

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Updated Spring 2006 - What Marvel Lady Should Nightcrawler be With?

Post by elfofdoom » Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:51 am

:D that funny they never said Kurt was a vergin never have they hinted at it so who was the lucky girl
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:43 am

Originally posted by fourpawsonthefloor

Hey - did y' all know that Remy's a catholic too? HE definately ain't a virgin. :whistle
HAHA! Good point! He is! And what a good Catholic he is :P
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Post by The Drastic Spastic » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:35 pm

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
Originally posted by fourpawsonthefloor

Hey - did y' all know that Remy's a catholic too? HE definately ain't a virgin. :whistle
HAHA! Good point! He is! And what a good Catholic he is :P
What do Kevin Federline, Colin Farrell, Mel Gibson, Jenna Jameson, and Charlie Sheen have in common?

a) They are all famous, real people.
b) They are all claim to be Roman Catholic.
c) They all fuck around a lot.
d) All of the above.

Hint: It's D.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:28 pm

I think an important point that we should bring up at this point is that we are not claiming that all Catholic people are one way or the other. But that there are many different, diverse people within this group. I know there are certain expectations set by the church, but how many people live up to each and every one? And does not living up to those expectations make someone less Catholic, if they are still active and believe?
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Post by Angelique » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:32 pm

Actually, to an extent, yes, how someone behaves can make them less Catholic in that it affects their relationship with God and their standing within the Church. Which is why I thought it was more honest to, when I realized my beliefs and therefore lifestyle on certain matters were not in step with the Church's teachings, I stopped considering myself Catholic.

Being active in a church is one thing, and in some cases, it doesn't even require being Catholic. As for believing, belief isn't worth diddly squat without at the very least some valiant attempt to live accordingly. Devotion to one's faith is reflected in how a person lives, not by merely calling one's self Catholic or whatever while persisting to behave unrepentantly in a manner that suggests otherwise.

Which is why I don't consider Remy a Catholic. Former Catholic, lapsed Catholic, maybe. Or an assembly-line Catholic, meaning going to Mass and such because that just seems the thing everyone else is doing, without adopting any of the beliefs.

And it's one reason why I am tremendously uncomfortable with the idea of an ostensibly devout Catholic superhero dorking around off-panel.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:05 pm

Originally posted by Angelique

And it's one reason why I am tremendously uncomfortable with the idea of an ostensibly devout Catholic superhero dorking around off-panel.
Well, I'm not going to tell you what to find comfortable or uncomfortable but please keep in mind he is fake and is in no way intended as an accurate representation of Catholics. This is Marvel, and Xmen. No one is claiming to be an authority for Catholicism, or much of anything. And honestly? If someone goes to Xmen for their spiritual needs they have alot more to worry about than whether or not they are a good Catholic...hmmm...

We need a "batshit crazy" smilie....
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Post by Saint Kurt » Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:55 pm

I've been reading the last few pages of this... And now I am wondering, why are Kurt's religious belief's, particularly as Catholic beliefs, even coming into the disscussion.

We know that David Cockrum did not create Nightcrawler to be a religious character at all. And then we know that it was much much later revealed in the stories that Nightcrawler simply "believed in God" (on the brood ship while talking to Logan). Nowhere, until Claremont started in with Kurt becoming a priest - was his faith ever given a name or used as more than an excuse for him to be a nice guy. And then after it was, Nightcrawler was written by many different writers who all used it in more or less different ways.

So maybe in the most very recent arcs (like Chuck Austen onward) where he was shown struggling with that, you may have a point, but even then, Catholicism as portrayed in the X-books is so sketchy that... I don't even know if it counts. It would be like expecting the genetics in Jurassic Park to be realistic.

So generalizations aside, in a comic book, does it even matter? The character was under development for decades, not to mention being worked with by dozens of people. Of course there will be descrepancies and this is one area we know of that has a BIG descrepancy.

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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:48 pm

Agreed. Let's stay on topic. This thread has nothing to do with Catholicism. If you want to discuss that take it to its own thread. :)

Anyway......I'm behind the Kurt/Wanda :whistle
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