NIGHTCRAWLER #2 - FOUR PAGE PREVIEW

B A M F ! · Post by **B A M F !** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:07 pm

DITTO.

SPOILERS!

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That panel towards the end where Kurt looked back and for an instant the boys' 'Aunt' looked like a monster really creeped me out.....

Also wondering if Kurts' faith will come into play sometime later in the story-arc. I rememnber how waaaay back when the X-men were battling DRACULA ( ! ), and NIGHTCRAWLER, thanks to his faith was the only one that was really able to hurt the vampire in their initial encounter.

B A M F !

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:19 am

Sorry to disagree BAMF, but I certainly hope Kurt will use his brain and fists against his adversaries. Using faith is too easy an answer for a writer to solve plot problems.

The panel you're talking about, though, was really frightening... Beware big mama demon !

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:29 am

Thanks guys!

I suspect we'll see Kurt's faith be a factor when he's counseling folks, but not much more. We're going to be more about showing Kurt as a person.

He's not a priest, afterall. Ultimately, he's a young man trapped in a furry blue body with pointy ears and a tail and two digits appendages.

Kurt was chased out of a village by a priest leading a mob with torches, accusing him of being a child killer. I want to deal with that far more than I want to deal with the whole tired "priesthood" thing.

But hey, I'm just the artist...

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:30 pm

Lots of love for the last two posts!

Using his faith to defeat real monsters is incredibly cheap, very Christian after school special. Having that kind of thing work in the Marvel universe squicks me, having Catholic characters is one thing but showing that the religion works is completely different. And wrong. Deeply wrong.

Blue_Demon94 · Post by **Blue_Demon94** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:50 pm

Does anyone else doubt that she's the boy's aunt, or am I just a Negative Nancy?!

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:41 pm

If she's really his aunt, I sure don't wanna meet the boy in a dark alley !

Blue_Demon94 · Post by **Blue_Demon94** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:09 pm

:LOL HE's probably worse than Kurt

B A M F ! · Post by **B A M F !** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:26 am

I can see where you guys are coming from in that just using his faith would be kinda cut-and- dried. I was more curious to see if at some point, because he was dealing with demonic forces it might have helped him in some way. (Like maybe being able to see through the 'aunts' disguise?)

B A M F !

Shadow_Dancer · Post by **Shadow_Dancer** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:19 am

I do not mean to derail the thread, but I find this statement insulting, to say the least, to those of us that are believers:

"Having that kind of thing work in the Marvel universe squicks me, having Catholic characters is one thing but showing that the religion works is completely different. And wrong. Deeply wrong. "

Why? It has been my personal experience that it does, no matter what you have to say about it.

In my opinion, if you are going to introduce true demons, then you need to give validity to the other side as well. I am not saying you should abuse it, and this would not be the first time. Kurt's first display of faith in Christ resulted in him making Dracula back down because he was the only "true" believer who displayed a cross, Uncanny X-Men, I believe #151, one of my favorite issues.

B A M F ! · Post by **B A M F !** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:55 pm

if you are going to introduce true demons, then you need to give validity to the other side as well.

I agree. Whether or not you as a reader are a believer or not NIGHTCRAWLER's faith is an established part of his personality. If the series is going to continue to deal with the supernatural, even after this initial storyarc, i'd imagine it would come into play at some point.

Oh and that ish with Dracula was UNCANNY #159 if I remember correctly...

B A M F !

The Drastic Spastic · Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:16 pm

Originally posted by Shadow_Dancer
I do not mean to derail the thread, but I find this statement insulting, to say the least, to those of us that are believers:

"Having that kind of thing work in the Marvel universe squicks me, having Catholic characters is one thing but showing that the religion works is completely different. And wrong. Deeply wrong. "

Why? It has been my personal experience that it does, no matter what you have to say about it.

You have personally fended off demons with your faith? REAL demons, not metaphorical ones?

Of course not, because demons do not exist in a physical form here.

The demons in the Marvel universe are magical. Magical! Does Dr. Strange use the power of faith to defeat demons? NO. He uses MAGIC.

The demons are not related to faith at all. They might be the forces of "Hell" but it is only a convenient term and has nothing to do with opposing any actual "God". Bringing faith and religion into it makes a statement that this is right, this is what you should believe cause look! It works on the magical demons. But it shouldn't. Because it isn't magic, and it isn't physical. It should logically have no effect. "But faith isn't logical." Yeah, people will never agree so just omit it, because it's not worth the annoyance.

Show him using his faith to defeat inner demons, fine. Actual physical light-you-up-and-rip-your-head-off demons? NEVER NEVER NEVER.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 11:30 pm

I gotta side with Draz on this one. not showing it one way or the other does not prove nor disprove anything wthin the comic universe. showing his faith (specifically Christian/Catholic faith) actually WORK against a real physical actual DEMON is a slap in the face to atheists and pagans, and those who simply think religious belief should be a wholly private, self contained thing.

you can work with his faith without proving one side or the other 'right' in the context of the Marvel universe. if it was some standalone story not at all related to X-Men or Marvel... whatever. but Marvel, because of it's broad base of readership and the nature of it's ever evolving changing story, i feel, on the subject of religion should remain neutral.

he can fight 'demons' sure. they can claim to be from hell, even (just because they claim something does not make it true, so i'd be ok with that. to a point.). but don't have him splash them with holy water and pray for them to leave and they actually do. i would find that offensive. it would feel like Marvel turned their back on me, in a way. i realize they are not writing these books jsut for me, bt they aren't just writing them for the religious, and specifically Christian in this case, people either.

was ok in the Exorsist, or on Buffy, becuase that's in part the concept of the show... but the Marvel Universe is (as far as i've been able to gather) just supposed to mimic our own with some fudged pseudo- science to give people the twist of superpowers. it's topical, it reflects the society we live in. and as such, i don't think either side should be proven right until such time if/when it is proven in real life. (unlikely, so it shall just have to remain vague)

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:55 am

Unless Marvel was comfortable enough with the subject of religion to be really explored in a fundamental way, goodand bad, then I think its better left out of the series rather than included in a superficial way.

The whole idea of Catholicism and such existing in a Universe where you can enter into realms of Limbo as a physical place and return without experiencing death seems incongruous to me.

When you have characters returing from the dead as often as Marvel characters do, then it makes the whole concept of Jesus, Heaven and Hell seem meaningless.

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:18 pm

As a person of faith myself I didn't believe Kurt seeing the demon was in any way connected to his faith. Marvel should remain neutral as not to offend anyone when it comes to religion and those who don't believe. How do the Christian readers feel about Dr. Strange and magic in comics? Are they offended because the bible says its evil? Just curious if there has been any complaints to Marvel. We know they got loads of complaints when they were going to bring back Princess Diana in X Static. That was badly devised.

Personally, it possibly could be one of two things that caused Kurt to see the demon.

The demon wanted Kurt to see him.

Or

Kurt has developed a sixth sense and is able to see things that most people could not see with their own eyes. Not due to his Catholic faith but rather due to him being a mutant. Gambit has developed a sixth sense in X-Men. Kurt can as well. We don't know the full extent of what Azazel's dimension did to Kurt in Draco or if teleporting back and forth between dimensions has somehow created this "second sight". Or did Margali give Kurt this ability as a child by some spell she cast but he's only now experiencing it for the first time? A spell to see past a disguise to the true nature of an individual and their intentions?

Quite possible. Something to think about.

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:29 pm

I can assure you all it's all about magic, not about his faith.

Like I was stating before when Magic is a very real thing in the Marvel U, then justice and good and evil take on whole other meanings.

Does God hate mutants?

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:41 pm

No God doesn't hate mutants the same why he doesn't hate gay people. But when people use a holy book to defend their hatred of a group of people then the holy book itself becomes a weapon of destruction rather than a force for good. I'm glad this is all magic as you say Darick. I love magic really and Dr. Strange is one of my favorite characters outside of the X-Men.

It all boils down to this. There is good and bad in everyone. It is "you" that decides whether to follow a path that is positive or one that is destructive. And that is true whether you believe in God or not. Good and evil are constant opposing forces. Kurt chose good despite his demonic appearance and has always strongly believed in God. But he also believes that magic is real and deals with it accordingly even though it is at odds with the doctrines of his faith.

B A M F ! · Post by **B A M F !** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:23 pm

Originally posted by **Northstars Love**
It all boils down to this. There is good and bad in everyone. It is "you" that decides whether to follow a path that is positive or one that is destructive. And that is true whether you believe in God or not. Good and evil are constant opposing forces. Kurt chose good despite his demonic appearance and has always strongly believed in God. But he also believes that magic is real and deals with it accordingly even though it is at odds with the doctrines of his faith.

Well said. People of different faiths as well as people with no particular beliefs are drawn to the character for several different reasons. Maybe because of my faith I might have read more into him being able to 'see' the aunts' true form.
I was a NIGHTCRAWLER junkie long before LOGAN saw him praying that first time and asked him about it. Since then it's just been another aspect of his personality that I admire and relate to. I understand though that its something that will probably not be too heavily touched upon the series.

Shifting gears here was I the only one that was kinda creeped out by the fact that AMANDA SEFTON seems to have been spying on Kurt...

And apparently not just in a 'checking-up-on-you-once-in-a-while' kinda way. Unless of course she was just joking....

B A M F !

bluefooted · Post by **bluefooted** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:52 pm

Originally posted by B A M F !

Shifting gears here was I the only one that was kinda creeped out by the fact that AMANDA SEFTON seems to have been spying on Kurt... And apparently not just in a 'checking-up-on-you-once-in-a-while' kinda way. Unless of course she was just joking....

B A M F !

Heh, I still think that nurse is Amanda come to spy on our Kurt. I know, I know... But she really seems suspicious to me because [spoiler] her boobies are way too big

[/spoiler]

Just me being paranoid, I guess...

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:41 pm

Originally posted by bluefooted
Originally posted by B A M F !

Shifting gears here was I the only one that was kinda creeped out by the fact that AMANDA SEFTON seems to have been spying on Kurt... And apparently not just in a 'checking-up-on-you-once-in-a-while' kinda way. Unless of course she was just joking....

B A M F !
Heh, I still think that nurse is Amanda come to spy on our Kurt. I know, I know... But she really seems suspicious to me because [spoiler] her boobies are way too big [/spoiler]

Just me being paranoid, I guess...

heeheehee

She couldn't have been joking, she knew what he'd been up to before he told her. He knows she meant it, but what's he gonna do about it? Ugh, just the thought. How could he really stop her? He'd be all, hey, have some respect for my privacy... And she'd just laugh. Or get offended and be a big skanky cow about it.

No wonder he's been avoiding her.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:20 am

Are they the regular 2.25? I'm cheap and poor. It's an obnoxious combintion.

B A M F ! · Post by **B A M F !** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:13 am

Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
No wonder he's been avoiding her.

Yah! Poor Kurt...I wonder if she saw when he kissed Rachel....

B A M F !

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:03 pm

Nightcrawler#2 : 2.99 $
Sorry, but it's worth the price !

Blue_Demon94 · Post by **Blue_Demon94** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:02 pm

Originally posted by Gaz
Are they the regular 2.25? I'm cheap and poor. It's an obnoxious combintion.

Me too!

, but I take all the money I find to save up for this book, I need another dollar for issue 3.... I need a job!:(

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:42 am

I swear, you people...

This forum is the ultimate place for thread derailings! What does any of this have to do with Nightcrawler #2? :p

"I spend $1.50 for a cup of coffee!"

DoomInABox · Post by **DoomInABox** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:59 am

Originally posted by Darick

This forum is the ultimate place for thread derailings! What does any of this have to do with Nightcrawler #2?

Why, thanks for reminding us, Darick! 'Twas thoroughly thoughtful of you!

Originally posted by bluefooted

Heh, I still think that nurse is Amanda come to spy on our Kurt.

You know, I did NOT even think about that! They DO look a teeny bit a like, don't they? And Amanda seemed suspisciously interested in what Kurt had to say about her.

I myself pegged her as possibly Dr. Childs' personal "distraction factor", because it seems like whenever there's something Kurt's gotta focus on, she's suddenly there in his face.

I just love that line from #1: "Try to remember why you're here ... or at least your name."

Love it.