Nightcrawler #1 - #4 disscussion

taekwondodo · Post by **taekwondodo** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:59 am

Must admit that while I was a bit skeptical about the premise when I read the first summary released I am very excited after reading that interview. I love that all the different aspects of NC's personality that make him interesting are going to be integrated and be *aspects*, not dominating characteristics. But from the first sketch you posted here I was going to buy the book even if I didn't like the story just for the eye candy.

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:06 am

I hear you...

Honestly, the postive response has been overwhelming. Even on that Newsrama board people are mostly saying good things. I guess I just had to vent.

The important thing, I suppose, is for people to remember:

1) No one book is ever going to be everything that everybody wants it to be. We can't please everyone. What you can hope for is a creative team that "gets" the character and brings the love. You're getting that with our book.

2) This character has been around a long time and if we go backwards, it will be dull.

3) It's best to read something before you assume you know what you're getting.

Everyone on this book is talking about sticking around for a long run.

nghtcrwlr · Post by **nghtcrwlr** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:11 am

Originally posted by Darick
I hear you...

Honestly, the postive response has been overwhelming. Even on that Newsrama board people are mostly saying good things. I guess I just had to vent.

The important thing, I suppose, is for people to remember:

1) No one book is ever going to be everything that everybody wants it to be. We can't please everyone. What you can hope for is a creative team that "gets" the character and brings the love. You're getting that with our book.

2) This character has been around a long time and if we go backwards, it will be dull.

3) It's best to read something before you assume you know what you're getting.

Everyone on this book is talking about sticking around for a long run.

Did you mean that there was bashing going on? (I can't quite access the website at this moment, my comp is not cooperating). Look, don't worry, vent all you want, it's good for you. Just remember to take things like that with a grain of salt (if any at all). I admire someone who listens to advice, compliments and constructive criticism openly and honestly, but the type of comments you were referring about were senseless and really not worth the time or pain. Please don't let things like these ruin doing what you enjoy.
And if anyone gives you a hard time, *puts ghostbusters song* say it with me: Who're you gonna call?! ...

Tatu · Post by **Tatu** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:03 am

Originally posted by Darick
Thanks! I'll be drawing lots of X-Men as supporting characters in Nightcrawler, so I'm looking forward to that.

*in his best sing song voice* Daaaaaaarick? Will Gambit be one of them? Cause Darick Gambit would be purdy...

(I'm a cheap whore of a fan boy with no shame, no shame at all!)

Dezzy Dragon · Post by **Dezzy Dragon** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:50 am

The way I see it is this books is part of Kurt’s life. Every one may not like the things in it or the way Kurt reacts or dose things in the book but it’s going to be part of Kurt no matter what some of us may want. I have not always liked what some writers or artist have done with some people (Scott and Emma *Cough*) but you half to remember that the people making the books are not yourself. We will always have our own version of the character in our heads so we half to let other people do what they want every so often and just live with it. At least Darick has some influence with the writer and he is a fan himself. Best yet he talks with the Kurt obsessed and knows what we like and dislike. Makes me feel like no matter what he will stay true to the character.

Ziox · Post by **Ziox** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 10:54 am

Originally posted by Dezzy Dragon
The way I see it is this books is part of Kurt’s life. Every one may not like the things in it or the way Kurt reacts or dose things in the book but it’s going to be part of Kurt no matter what some of us may want. I have not always liked what some writers or artist have done with some people (Scott and Emma *Cough*) but you half to remember that the people making the books are not yourself. We will always have our own version of the character in our heads so we half to let other people do what they want every so often and just live with it.

All I can say is that I've always been an NC fan and in those times I have not always liked the way certain writers or artis have portrayed Kurt but nonetheless the cause of it I'm still a happy go lucky satisfied fan of his and will probably always be and even if others aren't well then I guess they just have to dill...

Now for the comic I had heard a few months back that nighty was getting his own on going series, but I had no idea that there was this much already developed. Though I wish there was something I could comment on the story, but far as the art goes both covers and scans...I'm sold!:D

The only bad thing now is the wait, Say does anyone have a clear date on that?:shame

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:14 pm

Yep, less than a month away now, September 22nd.

And it's really stupid of me, but I was just ranting about this post, because it's typical, and came after a stream of excited, positive posts.

I really think people that do this just want the attention by taking the opposite position:

Cray WS writes: I'm not convinced or motivated to buy this book. Its all about a character who's had many personas much like rest of the X-men have. There's no story here, just character placement in themes borrowed from movies, but I don't have a problem with that. All that passion won't make up for lack of story past the sixth issue. Resorting to Wolverine is sure sign that they have run out of ideas. Sure its cool to team them up, but what then?

I don't know what people expect here, but as far as I can tell, its about Nightcrawler. As if that alone is enough to buy the series? I'm not sure people are going to get my point, I'm saying that good stories are not just about cool characters, but the way plot and drama plays out and of course characterization.

This could easily be a Spider-man or Batman book. Finding someone passionate about a character in this secular world of comics is truly not hard at all. Passion doesn't equate good stories, but it helps.

I could get excited about book with a plot and intrigue.......then be fascinated by characters within the book. You don't revolve a movie around Clint Eastwood, you have script first........then cast Clint Eastwood with right character in the script.

This Nightcrawler series is doomed to fail if writer doesn't figure out way to make the story the focal point instead of just fancy illustrations of Nightcrawler by Robertson.

Keeping in mind this guy has not read the book. He just has blanket statements and bizarre reasoning for why our series is unworthy of his $2.75.

Moreover, he went through the trouble of posting his very important opinion in a thread about a book he doesn't want to read. I just don't get that.

And this says everything you need to know:

Cray WS writes: Well I don't read X-men anymore, at least not on regular basis. My last issue was after the AOA storyline and everything returned to status quo. I felt so used after buying that crossover event.

I kinda like Pauly Shore movies. Well not all of them, but one that I don't mind is Son in Law.

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:30 pm

Unfortunately Darick you are in a job that will have these type of people posting all the time. Whatever happened to reading a comic for enjoyment instead of tearing it all apart and sounding off to what is wrong with it?

Well, internet happened I guess. There is no face behind the posts so anything goes when it comes to the internet because there are no rules. Although boards do have their rules, most people walk the fine line to say what they want without getting banned and such. These are the trolls and idiots.

As with this poster, he or she is saying this to convince themelves not to buy the book because comics are getting too expensive?

They don't want to shell out that $2.99.

Jubilee #1 is hitting the market but I plan not to buy it because I'm not a Jubilee fan. But I won't say its crap based soley because I'm not a fan and then condemn it. People are miserable and they extend that misery to whatever they do.

Don't worry Darick I plan to buy Nightcrawler and I'm sure I'll enjoy it!

*Edit*

Pauly Shore movies? Haven't read X-Men since AOA? Ok, that does explain where this personal is coming from and they have no clue to what is what.

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:38 pm

I'm thick skinned to folks not liking my work. I'm so beyond that, that I just get happy when I see people excited. I expect the negative criticism.

What baffles me is that attitude that it will suck because they assume it will. I don't even take it personally. I just find it incredibly boring to post a negative review of something you haven't read

CurlyyHairGirl · Post by **CurlyyHairGirl** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:06 am

Originally posted by Darick
I just get happy when I see people excited.

Well you must have been overjoyed when you started reading this thread:LOL

Originally posted by Darick
What baffles me is that attitude that it will suck because they assume it will. I don't even take it personally. I just find it incredibly boring to post a negative review of something you haven't read

Poeple just like to cause problems or sound all macho by dogging things before they've had the chance to find out what it's about, and it really doesn't make any sense. I just skip over things like that, and that's why I love Nightscrawlers so much, they have rules that call for respect and they are followed:nodyes
Always be optimistic, you get more out of life.
I cant wait for this to come out!

Crawler · Post by **Crawler** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:35 pm

Originally posted by Darick
What baffles me is that attitude that it will suck because they assume it will. I don't even take it personally. I just find it incredibly boring to post a negative review of something you haven't read

Im baffled by the same thing. I'm not sure if it's a need to think you know what's going to happen or just an urge to bitch or what...

Maybe they just think they because they can't or dont want to buy something, they have to say it sucks. Or want to try to elevate themselves by ridiculing something other people will give a chance.

I especially like the theory that no creator could POSSIBLY want to use Wolverine and there no possible story with him, so his presence is an automatic cop-out.

And thanks for the kind words about Nightscrawlers. We're really glad you like it here.

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:04 pm

Yeah, I was happy that other people jumped on that Wolverine comment. Kurt and Logan are pals, and ANY fan of either character knows that.

Putting them in a story is no more a gimmick than 'World's Finest' is. It's always interesting when those two are in a story on their own, and it's something that hasn't been done very much with.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:29 am

aw, man... look at the great discussion i missed...

I am with most people here that I just don't get the negativity... when I first got on the net, I admit I sometimes did that, but I've grown since then, though yeah, I lapse at times. But in general, I have since realised that my opinion really isn't all that important. If I like or dislike something, aside from voting with my dollar, the only person that matters to is ME. Unless it's like politics, or something, because well, that's bigger, it affects more people, and in serious ways. But that doesn't mean I don't like talking about things I enjoy, which is when the critics become the most annoying.

I've learned there's no point in me just stomping on people's fun just to get my opinion out there... like the cheesecake thing. so true. I happen to be in the 'don't like it' camp. But I'd never go to some dessert recipe forum just to say that in a thread about strawberry cheesecake. I make jewelry with beads. I happen to think some types of beads (which are very popular with some people) are tacky as hell. But I don't go out of my way to say so to those who do like them, or those who make them. I just use the beads I DO like, and leave it at that. Basically, my opinion doesn't really matter. Especially if it is something I have no right to comment on in the first place, having not read it, like that Cray guy. though I WILL defend my point of view to the bitter end if someone gets in my face about it, or even stomp on someone's fun if they are the ones having fun by being an ass to others, because they deserve it.

But a lot of these people, it's not just because they're new, they just honestly seem to have an inflated sense of self-importance, like to be contrary to popular opinion for attention, and/or seem to be just plain rude. I see it all the time. 'I don't like this' but with many more words. um. so what? go, read, watch, whatever something else. I like this, I want to talk about it, have a bit of enthusiasm and fun with it by sharing my enjoyment with others, speculating, or whatever. I just want to have some *fun* with it. Is it so much to ask? It gets REALLY annoying when you are just trying to have a bit of fun, and some wet blanket comes along just to announce that they don't like it. what's worse is when they won't drop it. pop in, say it and leave... annoying, but ignorable. But then when they just won't stop trying to insist you are wrong for liking something, it gets on my nerves to say the least. Or worse, they say something like 'how can you like this? only an idiot would like this crap!' a) implying anyone who likes it is mentally deficient b) squashing peoples fun for no reason c) coming off as incredibly egotistical. d) coming off as an attention whore. then when someone snaps at them, they come back with the tired old 'free speech' argument. yeah, they have the right to state their opinion. (though here, you have to do so with respect, it's in the rules.) but that right does not negate the fact that they are being an ASS, and as a result, the people they are being rude to will be annoyed, and maybe bite back.

that kinda went off on a tangent or three.... but I hope something coherent is in there... you know, basically it kinda boils down to, I am not particularly interested in every damn thread turning into a DEBATE about who is right and who is wrong on what sucks. Sometimes I just want to talk, share enthusiasm and have fun talking about something i enjoy. After a while of seeing this constantly, and people saying similar things about my own work, and then finally becoming friends with one of the most hated writers out there, and seeing it from a new perspective, it just REALLY annoys me now....

Do I have negative opinions about things? You bet... but I don't go out of my way to spoil things for those who do like it. It's common courtesey. If I bitch about something, I do so in private to people who have similar tastes to me to get it out of my system, and move on.

bluefooted · Post by **bluefooted** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:50 pm

Darick - just wanted to say I'm very excited about this book and your art!

I think a lot of these negative opinions - especially concerning things people haven't even seen yet - arise from some type of insecurity. You can imagine people worried that something will not live up to the hype it's getting, so they sort of bring it down a notch or two by ripping it. Or, sometimes, a person has already made a judgement that something won't be great or that they're not interested in it, so they feel the need to distance themselves from it by expressing a negative opinion. Finally, it's just plain laziness - it's always easier (and usually safer) to say what you don't like about something rather than what you liked or think you might like. Just the way of the world, I guess.

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 7:29 pm

These are good points.

Really, it just comes down to the Cheesecake analogy. You can post a long essay about how you don't like Cheesecake, but WHO EFFIN' CARES? Not one person in a googleplex will stop and say "Hey! I just realized that I don't like cheecake either! Thank god this guy posted his negative opinion of cheesecake in this cheesecake lover's thread..."

You don't like Cheescake? DON'T ORDER IT!

There's no grand Marvel conspiracy to force folks to buy Nightcrawler's solo series that needs to be exposed.

Like Thumper's Dad said, if you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all.

It matters in issues of public policy, like politics, ect, it's important to voice your opinion, but about comics, or anything entertainment related, it's a matter of taste.

Nobody cares about what you don't like. Nobody cares about why you think things suck. You can't prove it to be right when someone else disagrees, so it's a pointless waste of time.

I'm done now.

CurlyyHairGirl · Post by **CurlyyHairGirl** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:37 pm

For me there is one rule. "If it is a subject I don't care for, don't post in it, don't read it, pretend it's not there"
It is as simple as that. It's courteous, doesn't waste your time or others and doesn't burst other peoples fun bubbles.

back on topic

Is it to soon to start hyperventilating over getting the first issue? *bouncybouncybouncy*:toothy
I may not know the writers work, but 90% of the time I buy for the art...and it is lookin' good:love

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:06 pm

The scripts have been really fun to draw.

Post by **Saint Kurt** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:28 am

There's no grand Marvel conspiracy to force folks to buy Nightcrawler's solo series that needs to be exposed.

I've been following this discussion, but haven't had anything to add other than "yeah, I agree", RE: Idiots who think their opinion is so important that they have to spout it all over the internet.

Why people need to do this and why some others who's opinions differ take it as a personal attack is beyond me. Don't like it, don't get it. Like it, respect those who don't. Is that so hard? I guess it is.

On the other hand, maybe it's the fever, or the antibiotics, or the vicoden cough syrup talking, but the idea of a Marvel conspiricy is hilarious to me. I can just picture them indoctrinating their employees like they did to us at Microsoft by issuing plaques with the corporate motto on them: "Thank you for taking us one step closer to our goal: The Nightcrawler series on every shelf in every home."* And having meetings about whether subliminal messageing, post-hypnotic suggestion, or the inclusion of Wolverine in the story line will cause people abandon their free will and line up like zombies to buy it.

It's probably the cough syrup.

-e

* At Microsoft when you ship your first product they give you a plaque saying "Thank you for taking us one step closer to our goal: A computer on every desk in every home ... running Microsoft software." After that, each time your group ships something you get a new little plaque to add to your "ship it Award".

Tatu · Post by **Tatu** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:24 am

Originally posted by zamweasel
At Microsoft when you ship your first product they give you a plaque saying "Thank you for taking us one step closer to our goal: A computer on every desk in every home ... running Microsoft software." After that, each time your group ships something you get a new little plaque to add to your "ship it Award".

And thats why I have a Mac, cause I'm non conformist! I go against the mold! I'm right, you're wrong! You all suck!

Sorry, I couldnt resist playing troll while we were on the topic... but I pull it off so well, no?

baaaaack on topic.

I actually think the troll thing is just a pathetic need for attention. Like a child who wants a new toy in the store, makes a big scene so everyone will stare and his mom will feel bad and buy it.

And the moral of the story is, You may have gotten the toy, but you still look like an ass.

Sundown · Post by **Sundown** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:21 am

Going back to the Wolverine comment....

One of the things I've always liked most about Nightcrawler was his devotion to his "family", his teammates. I mean, he is usually the one that people go to to talk about things, and the one they count on to either cheer them up or give them someone to vent to, or a shoulder to cry on. I'm looking forward to the appearances of the other X-men in the series because of that aspect of his character (and seeing Darick draw them...heheh).

Oh, and I'm also really hoping for a resurgence of the flirtatious playboy....the latest Uncanny had a comment from Brian when Meggan hugged Kurt that was a reminder of how funny that part of the Excaliber interaction was.

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:40 pm

Since I cannot send a U2U to you Darick(U2U's are not functioning at the moment) I have to leave it here. Sorry, this is going to be a little

.....

I cannot find any info on the upcoming Comic Con in Las Vegas next month at my local comic shop. Since I know you will be attending Darick do you have an email or phone # to contact someone to get more info about the con?

Any info would be great!

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:14 pm

Originally posted by **Northstars Love**
I cannot find any info on the upcoming Comic Con in Las Vegas next month at my local comic shop. Since I know you will be attending Darick do you have an email or phone # to contact someone to get more info about the con?

Any info would be great!

well originally the info was at
http://www.lasvegascomiccon.com/index.shtml

But now it seems to have changed and is not including comics... perhaps they've changed venues and have not informed me.

Darick · Post by **Darick** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:27 pm

Yep. Turns out that they have cancelled the comic show and turned it into a "collectibles" show.

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:06 am

Originally posted by Tatu

And the moral of the story is, You may have gotten the toy, but you still look like an ass.

But you got the toy! And you'll never see those people again. I think this metaphor lost me somewhere, cause that sounds like a damn good deal to me.

I still don't quite know what that guy was trying to say. Too long to just be a postwhore post.

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:34 am

Originally posted by Darick
Yep. Turns out that they have cancelled the comic show and turned it into a "collectibles" show.

There are a few comic dealers that will be there but it seems it did change to just a collectibles show. Crap! From what I heard about the past shows in Las Vegas they did very poorly. I'm not surprised by the change.

Guess I won't be going now.