Hey Marvel Put More Kurt Wagner in that Wagner

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Hey Marvel Put More Kurt Wagner in that Wagner

Postby sungila » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:18 pm

Here I am writing a story about Kurt Wagner's resurrection and damned if I can't find my way this huge murky problem, the big GIANT-SIZED problem...

LIFE iS HARD

If you look like Kurt - even though you can fly an airplane, pop the hood on a high tech whizakaboo and fix it without even knowing what it is - even though you can recite the Bible in two languages, perform all the liturgical offices of the the priesthood, and house a soulsword in the pure vessel of your living spirit - even though you can wield all things pointy and sharp with the deftness of the world's greatest fencing masters and swagger of the seven sea's most swashing bucklers...even though you've dated your sister, romanced an amazonian alien outlaw, swooned the hearts of every X-Vixen over 16 years old, rescued countless damsels from more dimensions, alien worlds and races than Captain Kirk - even though you have actually traversed Dante's Inferno and ascended through your one true sin absolved and immaculate as ever...even though you survived the writing of Chuck Austen - even though you can waltz, teleport, swing on a trapeze with a prehensile tail...even though you have single-handedly vanquished the last living spore island of Krakoa -

Even though this litany of astounding talent and feats is but the tiniest fraction of your amazing awesomeness...

LIFE is HARD

being a hero...a superhero is easy...for a somebody like you...the way you look...your tendencies to be, well, a little melodramatic...it's a solution to your biggest problem...and my biggest problem in writing your story

how do i keep you free of the X-Men or the whole big mess o' superherodom and actually have you in the world...having adventures...rescuing people in need (be that need physical, emotional or spiritual)

maybe this 'real' world isn't good enough for you - but i believe i can write one that is - but it's a big problem
because i know... i am sure... the today's Marvel Universe doesn't really deserve you - maybe they never really did, you misfit :smirk

where of where can a Kurt Wagner go?

ANYWHERE! The greater the odds the greater the fun... that's what i'm up against in this writing

I've Reed Richard'sed every possible scenario for Kurt in today's Marvel universe and they all come out phony...bad...no good - unless he goes it alone...that's all i see as a possible true and right scenario for the resurrected blue elf... he goes it alone... against all odds on and on... a real Swahbuckler in this modern age... and not too much other dimensional stuff... real time all the time

the regular world needs heroes too....heroes to help them out while the superhero teams fight each other in endless wars, civil disputes and what-have-you's - Kurt's power set is ideal for this...

immaculate heart, invincible joy, abounding faith, charisma, charm and ingeniousness galore


my vision is Kurt as:
a mercenary of good faith
a messenger of hope
a way out
a peace and accord

a free-agent

maybe he could date Black Cat - he should - at least for a few issues... right?


BUT THIS'LL nEvEr hAPPEN...no no no... not from Marvel...
they don't seem to be able to apply any Kurt Wagner to their Kurt Wagner... they need more Kurt Wagner in their Kurt Wagner

s'all i'm saying...

maybe i sorta solved my BIG problem by sharing this with you all

or did i just make a different BIG one? :ooh
Last edited by sungila on Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Hey Marvel Put More Kurt Wanger in your that Wanger

Postby Starfish » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:32 pm

Hi! I'm afraid I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but that may be because it's really late here.
"The secondary penis slides into view. And they all lived happily ever after."
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Re: Hey Marvel Put More Kurt Wanger in your that Wanger

Postby sungila » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:38 pm

Starfish wrote:Hi! I'm afraid I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but that may be because it's really late here.




i'm saying...(d'unno...i'm a blank thinking that) damn, i bet i make that mistake a lot...
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Re: Hey Marvel Put More Kurt Wagner in that Wagner

Postby Wahnsinn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:15 am

You and your poetic tendencies, confuzzling the masses! ;)

I think I get it. Maybe kinda sorta. We need to see Kurt as an individual. For as long as we've known him, he's been part of some team or other. The role he plays on a team has been his identity, and there isn't a team today that really suits him. It's time for him to go out on his own and let the audience discover who he is when his decisions aren't influenced by a team. Am I on the right track?
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Re: Hey Marvel Put More Kurt Wagner in that Wagner

Postby sungila » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:36 pm

Wahnsinn wrote:You and your poetic tendencies, confuzzling the masses!


Ah Wahnsinn - that's a very kind way of putting it.
i think the gist of what i was trying to offer is that for a mutant superhero; or anybody who is given a 'fresh start' and 'new lease on life' there's this conundrum:

do you (A) pick up right where you were and simply ignore that this life you had, was a life that killed you? Choosing that path may mean that you've resigned the miracle of your resurrection to a cycle and continuance of a mission that already impaled you, buried you, fumed and feuded at your funeral and now recalls you nostalgically or tragically as an impossible vestige of hope, faith and reconciliation

to use Kitty Pryde's prepubescent bedtime story BAMF's as the portal to which Kurt will return to life is basically saying that THIS MAN... this Kurt Wagner - is kid's stuff... make-believe... good fun... a fuzzy blue jester... a hardy har har sidebar to the outrageous brooding of the X schisms...

BAMF's? He's in paradise... he's more or less an Angel and it's these BAMF's that ferry him out of heaven and back to life to be a what? A SIDESHOW ATTRACTION? How many times is he gonna leave one circus just to become the same costumed player in a child's or (adult child's) fantasy?

or do you (b) make a break of for it... a bold jaunt... and try a different path... and if that path leads you back through were you've been - so be it... but getting there by way of a fate that's made rather than heaped upon you would make it all different...Kurt's always been unsure and sure at the same time, and his doubts have driven him compulsively into (in my opinion) poorly written and unfortunate sacrifices that supposedly 'mean something' but don't.

So why not let the other side of Kurt Wagner come through.
Why not grant him access to his faith in himself and to the very redeeming fountain of hope that others have sapped him for?

A or B... to me is a big deal....

I see that Jason Aaron is already leaving Amazing X-Men, what does that mean?
Could it be that this question of where Kurt would fit is a real problem, not just for me, but for all his fans and writers and the Marvel CEO's that know...there's always a little gold in those shinning eyes (X-Men Evolution...the BAMFs...the Wolverine buddy stories, Kurt Dakholme etc) it's all okay...if you're a teenager, a little kid, or just cool with being numbed out for the show...

I grew up reading comics. I'm a little bit grown up now...
I've enjoyed pathway A for a long time, after all, Nightcrawler is my favorite superhero and X-books are my favorite comic titles

Yes

Wahnsinn wrote:We need to see Kurt as an individual. For as long as we've known him, he's been part of some team or other. The role he plays on a team has been his identity, and there isn't a team today that really suits him. It's time for him to go out on his own and let the audience discover who he is when his decisions aren't influenced by a team. Am I on the right track?


That's a big part of what it means to grow up. To be an individual.

Like the great writer David Foster Wallace once said, for all us adults who grew out of the Bronze and Modern eras of comics:
"This is kind of paradox, I think, of what it is to be a halfway intelligent American right now: there are things we know are right, and good, and would be better for us to do, but constantly it's like Yea, but, you know... and Who cares? and It's all b#%shit anyway

well, i choose to care...and to care means to change.
or at least to try...
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Re: Hey Marvel Put More Kurt Wagner in that Wagner

Postby Wahnsinn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:25 pm

sungila wrote:do you (A) pick up right where you were and simply ignore that this life you had, was a life that killed you? Choosing that path may mean that you've resigned the miracle of your resurrection to a cycle and continuance of a mission that already impaled you, buried you, fumed and feuded at your funeral and now recalls you nostalgically or tragically as an impossible vestige of hope, faith and reconciliation

Alas, I suspect that's largely what will happen. It does look like he'll be staying with Logan's stable of X-folk, whatever that means exactly with his status. I'm still trying to figure out exactly when his new (faux?) villainous path will show up in the other books. I can't imagine Kurt reacting all that well to that, assuming he finds out.

to use Kitty Pryde's prepubescent bedtime story BAMF's as the portal to which Kurt will return to life is basically saying that THIS MAN... this Kurt Wagner - is kid's stuff... make-believe... good fun... a fuzzy blue jester... a hardy har har sidebar to the outrageous brooding of the X schisms...

To be fair, these critters are not meant to be the critters from Kitty's old story. At least, that was obviously the case in the beginning. They are way cuter in AXM than they ever were in WatXM, where they were revealed to be "interdimensional hell beasts" and almost got their origin revealed by an alien zoologist.

or do you (b) make a break of for it... a bold jaunt... and try a different path... and if that path leads you back through were you've been - so be it... but getting there by way of a fate that's made rather than heaped upon you would make it all different...Kurt's always been unsure and sure at the same time, and his doubts have driven him compulsively into (in my opinion) poorly written and unfortunate sacrifices that supposedly 'mean something' but don't.

So why not let the other side of Kurt Wagner come through.
Why not grant him access to his faith in himself and to the very redeeming fountain of hope that others have sapped him for?

I'd like this and think it would be a healthy direction for him. The one thing that definitely needs not to happen is for him to be returned to the mopey, hyper-religious wallpaper he'd been before dying. He needs to move beyond all that. He's got a second chance and should embrace it.

I'm still wondering how he's getting a body, though. The only thing that perhaps seemed to be a hint was the origin of the Bamfs. Shapeshifting critters who take on the appearance of whoever feeds them? And what exactly is he feeding them, soul energy? What is the deal he made with them?

I see that Jason Aaron is already leaving Amazing X-Men, what does that mean?

I recall reading that he was leaving WatXM because his workload had grown larger than he felt he could handle. I suspect this is related. He got to start off this title because the idea for bringing Kurt back was his. It appears he'll be moving to a different area of the MU, so he may have decided it's a good time to step away from the X-line.

That's a big part of what it means to grow up. To be an individual.

Good point, and rather fitting. Kurt was 18 when he joined the team. He's been pulled around by the team for so long that he may not have ever had a chance to really grow up and discover himself. He's been through phases and experiments, but where did they really leave him? Confused, I'd say. His stay in the afterlife is probably the longest he's spent off a team since he joined the X-Men. Maybe he's had some time to think and grow, unless one is functionally stuck in time when in that realm.
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Re: Hey Marvel Put More Kurt Wagner in that Wagner

Postby sungila » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:05 pm

Okay, forgive me, I guess now I'm going to have to read Jason Aaron's W&XM trades, I set against it, but I've been gradually getting more and more curious - feeling like the issue summaries I read weren't enough...now I'm pretty sure that I need to suffer through any possible misgivings I have about having to endure the bazillion kiddie mutants...the crappy forced AvX plotlines...and the wasted use of characters as babysitters who deserve better situations (ie Rachel).

Besides, I've enjoyed Amazing X-Men so much and now I feel like I'm really missing out not reading first hand how Aaron built things up.

Wahnsinn and UltSpidey, you two come at your reading from such polar albeit equally ingenious, positive and unique perspectives. The convergence really piques my curiosity and makes my own reading far more rife with possibility and wonder. I learn a lot from you two and marvel at the sparks of your collisions.

So I was wrong!?
Wahnsinn wrote:To be fair, these critters are not meant to be the critters from Kitty's old story. At least, that was obviously the case in the beginning. They are way cuter in AXM than they ever were in WatXM, where they were revealed to be "interdimensional hell beasts" and almost got their origin revealed by an alien zoologist.


If that's how it is I'm sooo happy to be wrong!

See, this is how I think of BAMF's
Nightcrawler: “I know you have my Bamf doll to keep you company and protect you, but I thought---you might, for a change…prefer the real thing.”
Amanda Sefton: “Yum!” Uncanny X-Men #168 :naughty

Yea, I gotta read about these revamped little crawlers...cause maybe they're an extension of the 'real thing' now...and not just, well, you know....what Amanda kept for comfort while her Kurt was away.

sungila wrote:Kurt was 18 when he joined the team. He's been pulled around by the team for so long that he may not have ever had a chance to really grow up and discover himself. He's been through phases and experiments, but where did they really leave him? Confused, I'd say. His stay in the afterlife is probably the longest he's spent off a team since he joined the X-Men


So true. Remember when Alan Davis took over Excalibur's writing and had that scene where Kurt and Captain Brittan duke it out because Brian overhears Kurt moaning Megan's name in his sleep? And Kurt, after getting his femur broken, says his dream was a consequence of his guilt and shame about his attraction to another man's lover...and admits his inner need for an empathic companion made it hard to resist a shape-shifting woman who happens to be a pure empath...not to mention Brian's mistreatment of Megan sparked his chivalric impulse to protect all damsels from distress...

well...

that was great :)

Just saying this here because I feel like THAT is a good example of what could and does seperate Kurt from the pack. And THAT sort of story, stories like that really could fuel a solo comic for a very long and indefinitely amazing adventurous time
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Re: Hey Marvel Put More Kurt Wagner in that Wagner

Postby Wahnsinn » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:21 am

sungila wrote:Okay, forgive me, I guess now I'm going to have to read Jason Aaron's W&XM trades, I set against it, but I've been gradually getting more and more curious - feeling like the issue summaries I read weren't enough...now I'm pretty sure that I need to suffer through any possible misgivings I have about having to endure the bazillion kiddie mutants...the crappy forced AvX plotlines...and the wasted use of characters as babysitters who deserve better situations (ie Rachel).

Alas, the event tie-ins happen in almost every title these days. :X
I vote for giving the title a chance. There are some severely absurd elements, but it's usually pretty fun. It really is a title about the students, but they're not all bad. You might even come to like Broo.

Besides, I've enjoyed Amazing X-Men so much and now I feel like I'm really missing out not reading first hand how Aaron built things up.

If only for that, you should check it out. ;)

Wahnsinn and UltSpidey, you two come at your reading from such polar albeit equally ingenious, positive and unique perspectives. The convergence really piques my curiosity and makes my own reading far more rife with possibility and wonder. I learn a lot from you two and marvel at the sparks of your collisions.

Happy to be of service! :D

If that's how it is I'm sooo happy to be wrong!

It's easy to mistake them for the old-school Bamfs with the way they're drawn in AXM, and it doesn't help that everybody calls them Bamfs even when they're really something different. It's kinda like the confusion over whether Azazel was meant to be a demon. He wasn't, and yet …

Yea, I gotta read about these revamped little crawlers...cause maybe they're an extension of the 'real thing' now...and not just, well, you know....what Amanda kept for comfort while her Kurt was away.

The funny thing is that the old Bamfs weren't just a story. The males just made for darn good plushie inspiration. ;)

Just saying this here because I feel like THAT is a good example of what could and does seperate Kurt from the pack. And THAT sort of story, stories like that really could fuel a solo comic for a very long and indefinitely amazing adventurous time

Ah, memories! There was some great material in Excalibur, wasn't there? I agree that Kurt has the potential to work brilliantly in a solo comic. If Claremont is on top of his game, he's one of the people who can tell the stories that would make for a great read. Beyond concerns about editorial interference, my main worry is that the title won't last no matter how good it is because the market has no room left. AXM isn't selling half as well as I think it deserves, and it's a pretty bad sign when a core team book struggles. Wolverine's always been the one who had no trouble sustaining a solo title, and his books aren't selling as well as they did in the past. I want Kurt's title to last a long time, but I fear it'll be crowded out. :\
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