AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

All Nightcrawler, all the time! THE place to discuss everyone's favorite fuzzy elf in all his various incarnations!
Bamfing_Bob
Lookout
Lookout
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:15 am
Location: Odessa, Tx
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Bamfing_Bob » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:39 am

I have not read Age of Apocolypse, but I know the general story. :aoa

I believe if Darkholme joins UXF, it would really add depth. Wolverine & Kurt would have to develop a completely new relationship, which would be hard for Wolverine since there is always the still lingering shadow of Nightcrawler 616. Also, AoA is a perfect neutral piece for Deadpool (who always needs to crack jokes) and Fantomex (who is a black humorist even without trying to be sometimes). Kurt is a good funny, even if he isn't 'telling jokes'. So I'm pumped...
For funny tweets from NIGHTCRAWLER, follow my humor account http://www.twitter.com/fuzzybluejerk and spread it around to your comic friends!

Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:46 am

This entire undertaking has almost the majority of Elf fans teeming and cuddling with anticipation. TOM BREVOORT YOU BEST BE wathing this!!
R.I.P. Ultimate Peter Parker :spidey 6/22/11 USM#160
Read my reviews on SuperiorSpiderTalk.com! I'm a real, honest-to-goodness, published comic reviewer!
"It's not your fault. Listen to me. It's NOT. YOUR. FAULT." - a seismologist getting all territorial
┗[© ♒ ©]┛ ROBOT HAS NO USE FOR FEELINGS

Indigo_Lady
Bilge Rat
Bilge Rat
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:06 am
Location: Busy

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Indigo_Lady » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:32 am

This entire undertaking has almost the majority of Elf fans teeming and cuddling with anticipation.
Majority? Really? I visit other forums and what I am mostly seeing is sorta pissed Nightcrawler fans that understand that this means that 616 Nightcrawler may never return. Some are happy to have Kurt back in any form but will readily admit he's not really an adequate substitute. Just accept that not all Crawler fans agree this is a good thing.
Always a Queen of Narnia

There are no rules of architecture for a castle in the clouds. G.K. Chesterton

Favorite X-Men: :engarde :storm :colossus :nocturne :gambit :rogue :hank :psylocke

User avatar
Wahnsinn
Butt Monkey
Butt Monkey
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 1:58 pm
Location: The Land of Sausage

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Wahnsinn » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:40 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:TOM BREVOORT YOU BEST BE wathing this!!
Why him? It's not like he edits the X-titles. Nick Lowe's the one who needs the beating with the happy-swashbuckler-Kurt-fans-need-love-too stick.

littlebamf
Navigator
Navigator
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:15 pm
Title: Sometimes the bark isn\'t worse than the bite
Location: the drama studio
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by littlebamf » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:34 pm

Indigo_Lady wrote:
This entire undertaking has almost the majority of Elf fans teeming and cuddling with anticipation.
Majority? Really? I visit other forums and what I am mostly seeing is sorta pissed Nightcrawler fans that understand that this means that 616 Nightcrawler may never return. Some are happy to have Kurt back in any form but will readily admit he's not really an adequate substitute. Just accept that not all Crawler fans agree this is a good thing.
I have to agree there - not everyone is excited because it isn't the original Kurt and there are going to be several obvious differences as the storylines progress. I can totally see not everyone would be happy and to be honest I'd find it weird if everyone was, as it is kind of a contraversial move.

Personally, it's going to be really interesting to see Darkholme in the comics and I am looking forward to it, but he's not the original Nightcrawler so I'm not WOO Kurt is back, I'm WOO AoA Kurt is going to be here. I liked his character in general, the X-Calibre mini was about the only thing I actually enjoyed in AoA and I think he'd be a really interesting fit to X-Force.

But, is it the same as getting the real Elf back? Sadly not, but as I've been loving this book and I enjoy the treatment of the characters so far, I'm going to trust the writer. I do just hope the original 'Crawler still comes back to us one day.

Crawler
Navigator
Navigator
Posts: 1279
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 5:05 pm
Title: I'm Back, Baby!
Location: Spokane, WA
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Crawler » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:36 pm

I'm sure the original 616 Nightcrawler will be back...someday. It's just the way of comics. However, for now, replacing him with AoA Nighcrawler is preferable to a resurrection, IMO. Not just because AoA is my personal favorite, but because we're still too close to all the baggage and weirdness and such that happened in the years before they killed 616 Nightcrawler off.

Basically, I feel that Nightcrawler needs a "reroll" in order to come back in a way that allows for original and interesting stories. Like we were saying over in the X-Force thread, shedding the baggage and overly complex history, concentrating on the character's core, and rounding characters out makes for excellent storytelling, and this is an opportunity to do it with Nightcrawler by using one that already doesn't have all that stuff.

This version gets to start fresh. I think that's the best idea.
This message brought to you by the letter C.
Zack: I'm pretty sure our soul is composed of a series of toy commercials that ran from 1984-1988. When we die Hasbro does with us what they please.

Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:17 pm

I agree, C.

I think an interesting way for Kurt to come back too would be what was mentioned earlier (for get who) with replacing Wagner's spirit within Darkholme's body. I imagine anyone from Magik to Hope could pull that off. It'd be nice if it was later down the road.

In my head, I imagine Darkholme and Wagner walking by eachother and having a friendly exchange in some plane-of-non-existence and Darkholme just saying thank you to Wagner for letting him learn how to be happy again and how to embrace new friends and Wagner thanking Darkholme for being there for his friends when eh couldn't.

And then, over time, Darkholme's eye-wound would heal as a sort of physical-metaphor of Wagner's soul/character healing within as well.

That's jsut me though. :blush
R.I.P. Ultimate Peter Parker :spidey 6/22/11 USM#160
Read my reviews on SuperiorSpiderTalk.com! I'm a real, honest-to-goodness, published comic reviewer!
"It's not your fault. Listen to me. It's NOT. YOUR. FAULT." - a seismologist getting all territorial
┗[© ♒ ©]┛ ROBOT HAS NO USE FOR FEELINGS

Bamfette
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 3278
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:41 pm
Location: Calgary
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Bamfette » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:33 pm

The mark over Darkholme's eye is a tattoo, not a wound. And I can't imagine anyone being ok with just giving up their body....

Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:33 am

It is a tattoo? Strange I was explained it was a scar.


You know what, it technically is if it's a cheap enough tattoo ;)


And I don't think it's a matter of "giving up his body". I would think maybe some kind of brain injury or something and Magik does her thing to escort one soul to the beyond and bring in the other who is ready to return.
R.I.P. Ultimate Peter Parker :spidey 6/22/11 USM#160
Read my reviews on SuperiorSpiderTalk.com! I'm a real, honest-to-goodness, published comic reviewer!
"It's not your fault. Listen to me. It's NOT. YOUR. FAULT." - a seismologist getting all territorial
┗[© ♒ ©]┛ ROBOT HAS NO USE FOR FEELINGS

Bamfette
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 3278
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:41 pm
Location: Calgary
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Bamfette » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:14 am

A lot of AoA characters had similar tattoos. And how would moving another soul into his body repair a brain (or any other type) injury, exactly?

Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:15 am

Like I said, it would be a metaphor. Mostly so people could get their old Kurt back.

:toothy it's just a personal theory.
R.I.P. Ultimate Peter Parker :spidey 6/22/11 USM#160
Read my reviews on SuperiorSpiderTalk.com! I'm a real, honest-to-goodness, published comic reviewer!
"It's not your fault. Listen to me. It's NOT. YOUR. FAULT." - a seismologist getting all territorial
┗[© ♒ ©]┛ ROBOT HAS NO USE FOR FEELINGS

Bamfing_Bob
Lookout
Lookout
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:15 am
Location: Odessa, Tx
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Bamfing_Bob » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:37 am

I would like to have AoA in UXF as much as possible, but once that ship has sailed, a "soul transfer" makes sense as a rebirth of the Nightcrawler we've all grown to love and admire. I'm fine with him staying dead though; I believe bringing characters back from the dead makes death's meaning mute point.
For funny tweets from NIGHTCRAWLER, follow my humor account http://www.twitter.com/fuzzybluejerk and spread it around to your comic friends!

Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:41 am

Fraction said as much after the initial death as well. He made the point that "if death makes sense, then why is it sad?"

If Kurt dies and doesn't come back, it gets the right effect. I suppose.

But you're right, they should use Darkholme as much as possible. Maybe even outside of UXF. I'd love to see him go up against some villains side-by-side with Wolverine.
R.I.P. Ultimate Peter Parker :spidey 6/22/11 USM#160
Read my reviews on SuperiorSpiderTalk.com! I'm a real, honest-to-goodness, published comic reviewer!
"It's not your fault. Listen to me. It's NOT. YOUR. FAULT." - a seismologist getting all territorial
┗[© ♒ ©]┛ ROBOT HAS NO USE FOR FEELINGS

Angelique
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 2882
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:27 am
Location: sailing under the Jolly Wagner

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Angelique » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:51 pm

I'm not going to take anything Fraction has to say about Nightcrawler's death too seriously, given how he (as well as many other people at Marvel) came across as treating Nightcrawler's death way too flippantly. If the death means so little to them, why should it mean anything to us?

That being said, keeping licensed characters dead is a poor business move all around, which is why they shouldn't kill them off in the first place. Except Jean, but that's because dying and coming back is what Phoenixes do. Even then, they should do that very sparingly instead of stuffing her in Cyclops' refrigerator every year.
Meddle not with the heartstrings of fans, for we are powerful and hold your pursestrings.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6 ... &ref=share

www.heroesfallenstudiosinc.webs.com

http://hubpages.com/hub/characterdriven

User avatar
NachtcGleiskette
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 3167
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 6:45 am
Title: The Ragin' Cajun
Location: NY

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:50 am

I don't see how anyone treated Nightcrawler's death flippantly. He's had more mentions and been more active in stories DEAD than he was alive. Wolverine specifically seems to mention and think about him very very often.

Fraction did a horrific job with the funeral, but that was the one issue. Nightcrawler was still the hero of SC, and his PRESENCE has not left the books in the year he was gone.

You can't expect every issue to be "boo hoo, Kurt is gone. Woe is us," but he's gotten more of that than any other recent death I can think of. If anything, Sack fans should be up in arms. Or fans of Toad's finger. But in all seriousness, his death was felt, and it was poignant, and if you take the time to read the books with an open mind (and not a "They killed my fav, rah!" bitter mind) you will see that.

Oy, can't believe he's dead over a year and this is still a point of contention.

And I'm not sure what the Jean comment is? Stuffing her in Cyke's refrigerator every year? Jean's been dead nearly a decade, I'm pretty sure, and I think before this recent death she'd died only once? MAYBE twice, I really am not 100% sure of this. There's plenty to complain about in comics, we don't have to go making stuff up to be upset over ;).

Love and serenity, people. Love and serenity.
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

Angelique
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 2882
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:27 am
Location: sailing under the Jolly Wagner

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Angelique » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:21 am

I don't think it was poignant. I thought it was a bit corny, way too over the top with the faux-religious parallels, and it was stupid and unnecessary considering Nightcrawler would know better than to deliberately come between an enemy and his target when he could have rescued the girl just as quickly without putting himself in harm's way. I could chalk up a fatal mistake to being tired, but I don't find it particularly heroic.

Plus it was an obvious marketing gimmick that failed to live up to the hype. The death didn't save the world, didn't even save San Francisco, and wasn't even necessary to fulfill the mission.

As for the fallout, it was lacking not because I don't think Kurt should have been mentioned more, but because most of the mention was all talk and no action. Storm should have done much more than just give Cyclops a scolding that took place entirely off panel. And Schism should have started a whole year earlier. But because Nightcrawler is a licensed character sand the whole subject of major character death in comics has become a big joke anyway, the fact remains that he should not have died in the first place.

I was also referring to a point way back when when, if I remember correctly, Jean died and came back often enough that nobody can even quite keep count, and it pretty much became a joke. I will not deny that maybe I'm remebering it wrong, but you don't need to accuse me of making stuff up.
Meddle not with the heartstrings of fans, for we are powerful and hold your pursestrings.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6 ... &ref=share

www.heroesfallenstudiosinc.webs.com

http://hubpages.com/hub/characterdriven

Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:40 am

I'm with Nacht. If anything was a joke it was Kurt as a whole. He became a verse quoting character, and a lot of readers hate to read those.

However; the Marvel people aren't ignorant to a fanbase and just 'cause they kiled a character doesn't mean they disrespect those fans. In fact, I think it's quite the opposite. I think by bringing in Darkholme they're making it very clear that they know what the X-Fans want and that's a swashbuckling, action-packed Kurt, a Nightcrawler everyone is excited to see pop up in a panel 'cause that means shit just hit the fan.
R.I.P. Ultimate Peter Parker :spidey 6/22/11 USM#160
Read my reviews on SuperiorSpiderTalk.com! I'm a real, honest-to-goodness, published comic reviewer!
"It's not your fault. Listen to me. It's NOT. YOUR. FAULT." - a seismologist getting all territorial
┗[© ♒ ©]┛ ROBOT HAS NO USE FOR FEELINGS

Slarti
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 5611
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:25 pm
Title: Damn Not Given
Nightscrawlearth Character: :icey :phoenix

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Slarti » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:58 am

Nobody need make any accusations, or overreact to any rhetorical statements - this is and should remain a friendly discussion allowing any and all viewpoints.

Kthnxbai.

Crawler
Navigator
Navigator
Posts: 1279
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 5:05 pm
Title: I'm Back, Baby!
Location: Spokane, WA
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Crawler » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:20 am

So Uncanny X-Force #14 came out yesterday. Good stuff. No Nightcrawler...or was there?

At the end of issue 13, AoA Jean cast the team back through the portal into the 616 universe. Immediately, I went "Wait! Did Darkholme come, too?" Then issue 14 came out and...no. He didn't. Probably.

Well, this means one of two things: The team will revisit the AoA reality for some reason within the next few months OR we just didn't see Darkholme come through. The second is possible because he could have 'ported immediately upon arriving on the 616 side of the portal. He is a shadowblender and teleporter, after all.

Plus, on the last page of issue 14, we have this:

Image

That might be a lamp or something but...
This message brought to you by the letter C.
Zack: I'm pretty sure our soul is composed of a series of toy commercials that ran from 1984-1988. When we die Hasbro does with us what they please.

Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:23 am

Rick Remender was sort of curious as to why we thought Kurt Darkholme was the Nightcrawler in the promo.


But Marvel loves to pluck our heart strings with that stuff anyways...
R.I.P. Ultimate Peter Parker :spidey 6/22/11 USM#160
Read my reviews on SuperiorSpiderTalk.com! I'm a real, honest-to-goodness, published comic reviewer!
"It's not your fault. Listen to me. It's NOT. YOUR. FAULT." - a seismologist getting all territorial
┗[© ♒ ©]┛ ROBOT HAS NO USE FOR FEELINGS

Bamfette
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 3278
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:41 pm
Location: Calgary
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Bamfette » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:26 am

hm... seems pretty matallic looking to me, but on the other hand there's no real NEED for a lamp or whatever to be in the panel. You never know, i guess. But why would he hide himself if he accidentally got sucked into the 616 universe?

Slarti
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 5611
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:25 pm
Title: Damn Not Given
Nightscrawlearth Character: :icey :phoenix

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Slarti » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:31 am

Pfffft, sort of curious. Of course they're gonna tease and play mind games.

All this reminds me to stop at the LCS, ASAP. ;)

Crawler
Navigator
Navigator
Posts: 1279
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 5:05 pm
Title: I'm Back, Baby!
Location: Spokane, WA
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by Crawler » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:00 am

Yeah...it looks metallic, but like Bamfette said, there no purpose to it. I mean, I can't figure out for sure what it is.

Of course, they may have anticipated this exact conversation, basically, and put a vaguely demon tail shaped lamp in there just to mess with people watching for Nightcrawler. ;)

As for why he might hide himself...well, at first it would've likely been a reflex action, teleporting himself out of danger or even trying to teleport himself back into his own world, etc. Once he was hidden and he saw that he was not noticed...well, those were some BAD. DUDES. Would you hop out of the shadows when you see Wolverine nearly die and the whole team running away? I'm not saying he's a coward, I'm just saying that he's not a dummy.
This message brought to you by the letter C.
Zack: I'm pretty sure our soul is composed of a series of toy commercials that ran from 1984-1988. When we die Hasbro does with us what they please.

littlebamf
Navigator
Navigator
Posts: 1266
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:15 pm
Title: Sometimes the bark isn\'t worse than the bite
Location: the drama studio
Contact:

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by littlebamf » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:59 am

Yeah, I agree with Crawler. If he DID come through, the 616 universe is way different to Darkholme's own world and given the nature of his powers it would be reasonably easy to go to ground. It's pretty much an instinct thing. I mean, I know I'd bloody hide if I suddenly popped up in those events and as for why he's in that panel specifically, well out of everywhere else he could hide, I think he's least likely to be killed if he's spotted in that room, well by Betsy anyway. Kind of logical really.

Else, it is just a really conviniently shaped lamp that is doing a spot of foreshadowing (gettit) and hinting at things to come. But really, I'd kind of rather he had come through as I'm not sure I like the idea of them having to hop back and forth between the two worlds. Might dilute it a bit.

User avatar
NachtcGleiskette
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
Posts: 3167
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 6:45 am
Title: The Ragin' Cajun
Location: NY

AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:12 pm

If it is a tail, it's poorly represented. I'm sure KD found his way through, but that's a very odd panel. It's incredibly unclear, and not in a good way.

It sucks that in order to return NC to his greatness they had to kill him and then bring in an AU counterpart. I never understood making him a priest. Worst decision ever.

Hopefully AoA NC is just as lecherous as awesome 80s NC. I wanna see flirtation! At least!
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

Post Reply