How should nightcrawler return?

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by deadpixiedust » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:55 pm

I don't really now how he should return... but Mephisto, Amanda or Margali keeps going through my head or even Mystique. I also had a funny notion of him coming back as a horseman and he has to be deprogramed by his friends. It would be interesting for Logan for a change but perhaps that has been done to death. I really don't know...

I will probably just keep buying X-Men Forever (don't start people...) , X-Factor , Wolverine Origins, Wolverine Weopon X and Dark Wolverine and drop the rest... X-Men: Legacy is good but that depends on who they focus on and while I love Rogue I'd like other "smaller" characters have a chance to grow... The flagships will pretty surely fall off my list. But there is the rest of the MU to come back too.

Maybe I'll try more DC and indie comics as well. Truth be told I have read X-Men comics without Kurt but that was when they were written to my liking and I sware when I picked up Uncanny again out of curiosity after a long absence I was like "Yep... I didn't miss much" But at least it brought me back to the comics shops and other titles caught my eye... I doubt I'll even bother trying to defend Cyclops anymore like I used to. No way I can defend him now. They took any redeemable quality from that character as far as I'm concerned. It's funny they wanted to push Cyke up the ladder but they did the opposite for me. It must be for the appeal of some of the younger more mentally unstable fans with all those plotless shoot em up games they play.

Well... there is always fanfiction. ;)
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Trigger » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:47 pm

Nope, we youngins' hate him too. A bad character is a bad character, and it's unfortunate that what was once one of the strongest characters in x-men has become so flat and unforgiving.

Most of my fellow college-aged comic fans agree that the best time for comics (specifically the x-men) was in the 80's. Which is really sad seeing as most of us weren't even alive then. Comics just aren't fun anymore, and that is part of the reason why Nightcrawler's death didn't hit me as hard as I thought it would. To me the x-men have been dead for a long time, at least in the 616 universe. Oh well, there is still X-Men Forever.

[Edited on 18/6/10 by Trigger]

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Entropy » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:26 pm

Might I suggest Clandestine? Two short series were done (along with an x-men crossover), written and drawn by Alan Davis. Talk about pure fun. To me it is what more comics should be. If you liked early excalibur then you should enjoy it. Start with the first series because the second gets a little confusing (and unfortunately is a bit condensed thanks to marvel).

Also Young Avengers was phenominal. It has connections to old avengers stuff but you don't don't have to know it (i didn't). Very fun also.

I'm through the first 6 or so Fables trades and it's good. Walking Dead (currently through trade 5), while not typically my type of comic, isn't bad. Got through the first trades for invincible and Y the last man and they're pretty decent. Early runaways (i've read first two or three trades) is very fun also.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Diablo » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:09 am

Entropy wrote:Might I suggest Clandestine? Two short series were done (along with an x-men crossover), written and drawn by Alan Davis. Talk about pure fun. To me it is what more comics should be. If you liked early excalibur then you should enjoy it. Start with the first series because the second gets a little confusing (and unfortunately is a bit condensed thanks to marvel).

Also Young Avengers was phenominal. It has connections to old avengers stuff but you don't don't have to know it (i didn't). Very fun also.

I'm through the first 6 or so Fables trades and it's good. Walking Dead (currently through trade 5), while not typically my type of comic, isn't bad. Got through the first trades for invincible and Y the last man and they're pretty decent. Early runaways (i've read first two or three trades) is very fun also.


So true : it's a shame the Clan Destine relaunch didn't work. This title is pure magic and, in an ideal world, Alan Davis would write and draw it for years.
(in an ideal world also, Marvel wouldn't be so stupid, Nightcrawler would be leader of the X-Men and there would be five or six titles involving him, with, at least, one solo series)
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Entropy » Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:44 pm

lol, i should hope not Diablo. my wallet couldn't afford six titles with Kurt. plus like with wolvy you know some of those titles would be horrible. I'd settle for two if they were well done. Kurt as leader of excalibur was cool. but as the leader of all the x-men he'd get to angsty. give him excalibur and time for cool solo adventures :)

In a perfect world Davis would be able to write and draw an excalibur title and the clan.
i read his avengers prime the other day. not a big avengers fan but it was pretty cool.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by deadpixiedust » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:13 am

Trigger wrote:Nope, we youngins' hate him too. A bad character is a bad character, and it's unfortunate that what was once one of the strongest characters in x-men has become so flat and unforgiving.

Most of my fellow college-aged comic fans agree that the best time for comics (specifically the x-men) was in the 80's. Which is really sad seeing as most of us weren't even alive then. Comics just aren't fun anymore, and that is part of the reason why Nightcrawler's death didn't hit me as hard as I thought it would. To me the x-men have been dead for a long time, at least in the 616 universe. Oh well, there is still X-Men Forever.

[Edited on 18/6/10 by Trigger]


Good. I always hated when that was said about me when I was younger. Now if only Marvel would believe it. And also if you are an adult... you don't want over the top violence all the time and dark themes. What I liked about the 80's was that they had good times and bad evened out in the comics. Now it's just a bunch of survival and backstabbing. Wolverine has become insensitive even in a way beyond him. It's pretty bad. He's not as lovable. And without Kurt he is even less so. He's just hanging around characters influencing his darker side. I expect Logan to deal with Kurt's death now like everything. Boinking more babes and swigging more brewskies and I doubt Kurt's death will have a lasting effect on the team. I think it's pointing that way already.

Not even getting into the comment about bullets and Doug Ramsey so soon after Kurt died. I guess since Doug is not Kurt. Who cares.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Mistress_D » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:21 am

It's been on my mind; but could Kurt be in Hell? I can't help but make a connection in the upcoming issues of Weapon X and Wolverine 1, where first Nightcrawler leaves a message for him in his will and the next, he's traveling to Hell? It seems like it would be connected, but it could just be wishful thinking since the preview for September mentions a new series in November. :smirk

But for now, I'm done with American comics. If you want a manga recommendation, I can recommend "Hellsing"; as in "Van Helsing", especially if you're looking for an anti-Twilight book, this is it. I'm a huge fan of horror and the supernatural, so that's mostly what I read and watch. "Hellsing" combines surprisingly accurate vampire and Dracula myth for a Japanese story with graphic violence (only 17+ for this one), and the typical manga humor. The final volume was just released from Dark Horse and there's 2 animations; "Hellsing" is the original television series loosely based on the manga, and "Ultimate Hellsing", which follows the plot exactly. This is a definitely a must for the vampire or Dracula fan!

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:28 am

I don't get this. Why would you stop reading American comics altogether?

I cannot stress enough how awesome "Amazing" has been, and if you don't want to read Marvel,
DC's Batman/Robin has been one of the best books on the shelves for the last few months. The "Return of Bruce Wayne" has been an epic mini by Grant Morrison, and I also want to urge that "Blackest Night" & "Brightest Day" have also been equally astounding in DC-VERSE. Superman even has a new writer and is quite good!

Seriously you guys, seriously I get your pain. But don't take it out on hard-working American Comic writers/artists/creators who had nothing to do with the decision. Hell, I would go so far as to say read the people who are responsibles other stuff and boycott their X-Books to show them that you appreciate their writing but not their actions!

Fraction's "Iron Man" is (so I'm told from some very reliable friends in the field) one of the best comic books on the shelves RIGHT NOW. Like, DC/Marvel/Image combined, this is an amazing book. I'm told Iron Man's revelation of what he did in "Civil War" was described as "a moving and alarmingly softening moment for Tony Stark, and if you didn't respect him before, you certainly will now." (Quote from the comic shop owner).

I plead with you guys, please stop this nonsense, and don't be afraid to support good creators who are making legitimate efforts to keep you interested!

Now if you're not interested that's a completely different story. But don't dump all your books 'cause of one characters death. If anything, let it inspire you to read new titles. It's what I did, and I feel great.

Also Shanower/Young's "Wonderful/Marvelous/Legendary Wizard of Oz" series is quite unique and inspiring, creative and intelligent, and worth every cent. I am on my knees with you, please, pick these titles/volumes up and read them, even if it's in the library. Please. Don't just stop reading American Comics, these creators work very hard and it's not like their stuff is lame or poorly made.

[Edited on 28/6/10 by Ult_Sm86]
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Angelique » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:45 pm

I cannot say I find anything Marvel or DC has put out lately to be "astounding." Red Robin's been the only book from the big companies lately to garner better than a tepid response from me.

See, Ult, you are not going to convince some of us because Nightcrawler is not, to us, just a character we like, but the best. The best X-Man. The best Marvel character. The best out of all Marvel and DC characters. Even the very reason why some read comic books at all. Can you honestly tell us we will find an equal substitute or find equal enjoyment in any of these books?

That being said, Mistress D, there is much promise in the small press and American independent comics. Planetary, Walking Dead, and Jonah Hex (most definitely not the movie) are among the many indie or "imprint" books that have grabbed my interest.

And if Nightcrawler is in Hell, that will tick me off even more than killing him off did.



[Edited on 28/6/2010 by Angelique]
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Chaos » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:49 pm

Here we go! Idea!

Let's have Nightcrawler as the next Marvel Zombie.

Debate closed? :D xxx
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Angelique » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:51 pm

Nightcrawler already was a Marvel zombie. :P
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Chaos » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:54 pm

Then imagine; he comes back in MAINSTREAM Marvel history. :D

That's be awesome; evil, flesh eating Nightcrawler. Yeah, maybe not as cool as he was, but meh; sacrifices are made. Now, they will be made to FEED HIM. xx ¬¬
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Angelique » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:34 pm

Chaos wrote:Then imagine; he comes back in MAINSTREAM Marvel history. :D

That's be awesome; evil, flesh eating Nightcrawler. Yeah, maybe not as cool as he was, but meh; sacrifices are made. Now, they will be made to FEED HIM. xx ¬¬



Setting aside my complete loathing of the very idea of canon 'Crawler coming back evil for a moment, I'd suggest Cyclops be the first to be consumed except that he's got a Void in his head where most people have those wonderful braiinnnzzzz.....

And Emma, no matter how much she prides herself in her good taste, is completely inedible.

So if those two survive the zombie 'Crawler apocalypse, I'll pass.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:02 am

Angelique wrote:I cannot say I find anything Marvel or DC has put out lately to be "astounding." Red Robin's been the only book from the big companies lately to garner better than a tepid response from me.

See, Ult, you are not going to convince some of us because Nightcrawler is not, to us, just a character we like, but the best. The best X-Man. The best Marvel character. The best out of all Marvel and DC characters. Even the very reason why some read comic books at all. Can you honestly tell us we will find an equal substitute or find equal enjoyment in any of these books?

I cannot say I find anything Marvel or DC has put out lately to be "astounding." Red Robin's been the only book from the big companies lately to garner better than a tepid response from me.


That being said, Mistress D, there is much promise in the small press and American independent comics. Planetary, Walking Dead, and Jonah Hex (most definitely not the movie) are among the many indie or "imprint" books that have grabbed my interest.

And if Nightcrawler is in Hell, that will tick me off even more than killing him off did.
[Edited on 28/6/2010 by Angelique]



First off, to me that comes of as "You're not as good a Nightcrawler fan as us if you're not boycotting."
Which I'm sorry honey, but that's horse shit.

See, I have taste, and I know how to move on from one book to a new one. Also, I am differentiating between fantasy and real life, and while I'm sad Kurt's dead, he's not real and though he was my favorite character int he X-Men, I'm not going to go bawl and cry and close down shop because Kurt Wagner kicked the bucket.


Furthermore;
yeah I can tell you that. You know why?
'Cause I know you're not trying. 'Cause I know you and everyone else who's pissing in the wind about this is coming online and complete boycotting their new books and refusing to go to the store to look, let alone purchase, anything else. You talk about storyplots in other threads that you actually don't know anything about except the overviews you see on your CBR forums or Marvel forums, and to be quite frank, that's like critiquing a movie you haven't seen.
Or grading a paper you haven't read.
Or talking about a war that you haven't fought/studied.

It's, quite frankly, talking out of your ass. I'm not sure if this is out of line or not Ange, but your reply really tested my patience there because it reads, quite clearly to me if no one else, that you think I'm less of an Elf fan than you or others.
This is absolute bologna and if you read my post in the "Do They Know You're A Crawler Fan" thread, you will see just how agitated and upset I was at his death.

I do think anyone who boycotts American comics altogether is being selfish, snobbish, and flat out ignorant, and I will go so far as to say, they're missing out on what is easily one of the best times to be a Mainstream Company comic-fan.

You challenge me being a fan to the elf, then I return the challenge and ask, why are you not a fan of comics? Don't you think these artists and writers, not much different from you and your attempts/successes in publishing your work, deserve at least some observance from you, if what they're writing is something enjoyable to you? Are you seriously telling me You have been collecting Kurt? Since ever? Just 'cause of Kurt? You have everything from the Austen run onwards, and that's all and only thing you read?

If that's the case, I hope it's a good long time until Kurt comes back because you need to realize as awesome as he was and as core a member as he is, there are other characters in that series, in that universe, in this genre, who are worth your penny and if you don't want to give it to them that's fine. But don't come toting your anti-comic huff in a comic forum and not expect resentment back. Sorry.


[Edited on 29/6/10 by Ult_Sm86]
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Angelique » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:00 am

Whoa! What? I did not challenge you, and I'm not saying you're not as good a fan. I'm just stating that Nightcrawler means different things to different people, up to and including being the very reason some people (not including myself) read comics at all. I'm not saying they're better fans than I am, and I don't think think they're arrogant. People have different tastes and different reasons for liking what they do, and that in and of itself doesn't make anyone any better.

The facts are that I do go to comic stores trying to find stuff I like, and I personally find the pickings very slim.

So you moved on. Great. Some people have taken this harder than you. That doesn't make them arrogant or out of touch with reality. It only might possibly mean they're so sentimentally attached to Nightcrawler that, like a kid with a favorite stuffed animal or even some grown people I've known years after the death of a beloved dog, they may find even the suggestion of getting a replacement upsetting.

[Edited on 29/6/2010 by Angelique]
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Elfdame » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:55 pm

[not totally off-topic ... ish ... ] The way people react to Crawler's demise is a little like the way people got fed up with Brand New Day. Things didn't feel right afterwards for a lot of old-time Spidey fans. So if Nighty returns, each person carries his/her expectations of him being fun again, and until that time, I assume many feel their time is wasted reading a series, even an ensemble series with other great characters, when they feel jerked around.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Freak » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:00 pm

Modly reminder (for no one in particular): Keep it civil. Additionally, not assuming too much into what the other person thinks could help there.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by stjohn » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:07 pm

I don't think he should come back, I think resurrecting characters is crap, they shouldn't be killed in the first place if you plan on bringing them back at all. I think the companies should take better care of their properties and not write them into oblivion if they want to maybe keep the character around in the future.

On the other hand, I think the fan base should respect the publishers right to do what they want with their characters. If you really want to complain and moan about it, buy stock, then you can do something about it. ;) The characters are theirs, to do with as they please, for good or for ill, we are just the readers, expecting great stories (That are hit and miss at times), and sometimes in good stories the heroes die. That's just life.

Personally, I think killing off the little blue guy was a bad move, I did like him, he's not my fav, but he's up there on the list. I think the travesty they've pulled with Cap is worse though, and he was most likely brought back like he was because of people whining and moaning about it, so instead of it being a great notorious moment in comics history, it's just another footnote, and another guy who escaped death. Again.

People die. They don't come back. Get over it.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Chainer » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:50 am

Just found out about Nightcrawler's death a couple of days ago...man it sucks, but at least he went down fighting. He's always been my favorite comic book character. I had wanted to start reading uncanny x-men again, but couldn't find the time or the money (grad school is not very conducive to either), and now I'll probably just stick with the ultimate universe. Is x-men forever any good? I might try that since its still fairly recent. Anyways, I think Nightcrawler should come back, but that it probably won't happen for a while. If he does come back, maybe I'll be able to pick up Uncanny by then.

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Scumfish » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:13 am

At least the little blue dude got a decent send-off. I like him, it's sad that he died the way he did, but I think it'll be even worse if he came back.

But I agree with StJ. It is by far NOT the worst Marvel has done. He already mentioned Cap. Well, as the board's token Sabes fan - no one got up in arms about how Sabretooth's character was COMPLETELY destroyed in how he was killed.

Oh, and he ain't come back yet, if he comes back at all. I screwed about it for about...eh...two weeks?

So yeah. NC is not the worst, it's not the end of the world. If he comes back it'll probably detract from what the death means but that's to be expected. My advice? Just sit pretty and wait. It's not going to be rushed through or anything just because people get upset. It's not the worst thing Marvel's ever done. So hey, chill. Find something else to read, and move on.

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Diablo » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:26 am

Sorry, folks. We can't "get over it" like that.
For a lot of posters here, Nightcrawler is really, really special.

He represents the heart and soul of the Marvel Universe.
It's a subjective point of view, but it's ours.
Marvel for me equals Nightcrawler.

These days, I prefer discovering new talents, new universes at DC, Dark Horse, Image. I prefer reading novels, mangas, watching TV shows.
Seeing Marvel titles without the elf just make me sad. And I don't like being sad.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Angelique » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:45 pm

And to me, Nightcrawler represents Dave. Well, not just to me, but to Dave himself. ;)

I took Dave's passing very hard, and that was just from natural causes. But seeing the best example of his legacy to comics still alive and kicking made it go down a little bit easier. It meant there was a part of Dave in a way still with us, smiling from the pages of a new comic every so often. Now we don't even have that, so thank you very kindly, but no, to me this is not just a comic book, and I'll get over this about as easily as I can reasonably expect you to get over it when someone spits on the grave of someone you hold dear.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Diablo » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:26 pm

True words, Angelique. I remember how much Dave loved his creation, and how he considered the elf to be his alter ego.
I'm glad he didn't see this stupid cross-over.
At least, he saw X2, the solo title, Colossus's come-back.

Personaly, I'm not against death in comic books. I like it when popular characters bite the dust.
But it's a different story altogether with Kurt Wagner.

He's too wonderful a character to just disappear like that, especially in the middle of a strory.
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neling4
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by neling4 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:21 am

Chainer wrote:Just found out about Nightcrawler's death a couple of days ago...man it sucks, but at least he went down fighting. He's always been my favorite comic book character. I had wanted to start reading uncanny x-men again, but couldn't find the time or the money (grad school is not very conducive to either), and now I'll probably just stick with the ultimate universe. Is x-men forever any good? I might try that since its still fairly recent. Anyways, I think Nightcrawler should come back, but that it probably won't happen for a while. If he does come back, maybe I'll be able to pick up Uncanny by then.


Welcome Chainer!

X-Men: Forever is pretty good: At least Kurt is still alive in it, although, for the moment, Mr. Claremont seems more interested in Rogue's side of the power switch. I have no interest whatsoever in Rogue, and am still waiting to see how Kurt handles all the changes in his life. I would like to see more interaction between Kurt and his mom, too...without Rogue.

And don't worry, Nightcrawler will be back. I have no doubt about that, although it may be a few months before he returns.
R.I.P. Nightcrawler. 1975 - 2010

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deadpixiedust
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by deadpixiedust » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:20 pm

If Nightcrawler does return I want it done by someone who is truly interested in the character and loves the character and knows his potential and what makes him tick without being a walking religious stereotype. I'm sorry... but a few months would be too soon. As much as Marvels fascination with morally repugnant characters is frustrating I want to see his return done right. You cant force anyone at Marvel to want to do something with Nightcrawler let's be patient.

On a side note: Didn't the guy who did Kurt's 'Manifest Destiny' oneshot want to do a mini with him? Now that's him and Peter David who wanted to use him. Ah, well...

Also if Marvel thinks Pixie is an adequate replacement for Kurt. They've been smoking too much bad weed.
*.*.*.deadpixiedust.*.*.*

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