How should nightcrawler return?

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Karl » Mon May 31, 2010 1:13 pm

OK, that makes more sense to me now. I didn't even listen to the lyrics. I was just totally puzzled by the entire thing, finding a video of some guy singing where I expected at least something about Kurt, although I didn't truly think he was back. Not to mention the info about being Rick Rolled as some kind of internet prank. (I'll be the first one to admit that I take things too seriously most of the time, but I truly hate being fooled. April 1st is my least favorite day of the year.)

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Diablo » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:13 pm

Nandireya wrote:Well...I've officially dropped all my X-Titles. I haven't been enjoying them...or really even reading them...for a very long time...probably since most of them became The Scott and Emma Show...with very special Guest Star: Wolverine! Even if Kurt does return, I'm not sure I will.

I'm actually feeling pretty down at the moment. I've been reading comics for so long...and the X-Titles are really all I had...everything else I'd been reading was either cancelled or has finished. I feel a bit like Inigo Montoya...now that it's over, I don't know what to do with the rest of my life...or at least for my escape from real life.

I still have the internet I suppose...
Aw, don't be so sad !!
There are still great comic books out there, fine mangas, novels, movies or TV shows to be passionate about.

Nightcrawler surely is the best comic book character ever, I'm really, really sad too, but we have to think of it as a hiatus for the elf. He won't be dead forever.

That said, I admit the world was a better place with a blue elf in it. This particular Marvel staff is really heartless.
(and, I must say, quite stupid !)
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Angelique » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:18 pm

Part of the reason why this bothers me so much is the way death is regarded as a hiatus. The only thing in comics I've come to dread worse than another death is how they'll undo it.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Dedicatedfollower467 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:23 am

Angelique wrote:Part of the reason why this bothers me so much is the way death is regarded as a hiatus. The only thing in comics I've come to dread worse than another death is how they'll undo it.
Agreed. This is one of the reasons why, on simple principle, I almost want him to stay dead. That way they can't mess him up anymore and for the first time we'll actually have a dead character who has DIED and ISN'T COMING BACK.

Is there a single character that has died and hasn't come back?
~Def.
"A dedicated follower of nothing." -- graffitit artist in Brick Lane, London, England.
Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Angelique » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:40 am

Dedicatedfollower467 wrote: Is there a single character that has died and hasn't come back?
Uncle Ben doesn't count as having been brought back, as he was only back in the House of M reality. So at the moment there is one character who's stayed dead.

[Edited on 2/6/2010 by Angelique]
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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:53 am

Diablo, I couldn't agree more.

Marvel is making a lot of efforts to breathe new life into their stories and while I do call their "Women of Marvel U" a crock of shit,--being they've canceled the two most relatable female characters books, and undermine the relationship MJ has with Peter time-and-time again, also they have completely removed Betty Ross from the Hulk books--I think Marvel is doing a fairly good job in most of their other books.

"Shadowland" promises to be very good.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Wahnsinn » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:44 am

Angelique wrote:
Dedicatedfollower467 wrote: Is there a single character that has died and hasn't come back?
Uncle Ben doesn't count as having been brought back, as he was only back in the House of M reality. So at the moment there is one character who's stayed dead.
Mammomax. Did Maggot get temp-rezzed during Necrosha? I can't remember. If not, he's stayed dead so far.

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by kladyelf » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:10 am

er... Cecelia Reyes? *points to icon* i think she hasn't died yet... mind you i've lost track of her...
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Post by Angelique » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:35 pm

Regardless, Marvel's dug themselves into too big a hole for me. The X-books without Nightcrawler tend not to hold my interest, but I'm not confident that they'll bring him back without making another mess of things. I get that Marvel on some level is trying to breathe new life into things, but all I can see that's been going on particularly with the X book and Spider-man is that they'll making mistakes and trying to correct them with bigger mistakes. If that's all readers have to look forward to, whatever they're doing won't work.

And it's never a good idea especially when sales are suffering to give readers a perfect jumping-off point, like they just did.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by neling4 » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:30 pm

Angelique wrote: And it's never a good idea especially when sales are suffering to give readers a perfect jumping-off point, like they just did.
That sums it up perfectly. That's exactly what Marvel did, and just in time too! I was running out of space on my comic-book shelf. The last few Kurt-centric books should just fill it out nicely.
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Post by Diablo » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:23 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:Diablo, I couldn't agree more.

Marvel is making a lot of efforts to breathe new life into their stories and while I do call their "Women of Marvel U" a crock of shit,--being they've canceled the two most relatable female characters books, and undermine the relationship MJ has with Peter time-and-time again, also they have completely removed Betty Ross from the Hulk books--I think Marvel is doing a fairly good job in most of their other books.

"Shadowland" promises to be very good.
Well, sorry, but by "great comics", I meant great non-Marvel comics. :D
I have absolutely no interest for a Marvel U without Nightcrawler. The Marvel U lost its heart. It's just artificial life from this point.
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Post by kladyelf » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:44 am

do you know what this means?

Marvel is now a ZOMBIE!!! *eeps, runs, hides* gaah, where's the traditional zombie weapons when ya really need 'em?
meddle not in the affairs of ficcers for you are malleable and easily .... O_o *stares* ooh is that a cookie?

Love your enemies - It will drive them nuts!

Crazy.... but in the nicest possible way....

To Stupidityyyyy - and beyond!

*after reading the latest gory/depressing "mainstream" comic* ....*sigh* that's it, I'm packin' up and moving back to the Eighties...

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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:57 pm

ZOMBIE MARVEL!!!!

They even admitted it. They called Kurt the Heart of the X-Men.
~Def.
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Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.

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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:20 pm

Well then, I disagree completely LOL.

I'm sorry, I don't see the point of boycotting the entire line of comics. Ghost Rider is fantastic, Daredevil is tremendous, Marvel has put out a great series based on "Wizard of Oz" with Scottie Young doing the artwork and now they're doing "Scarlet Pimpernel" now, and even X-Men Hellbound is pretty nifty.

I am upset they killed Kurt, so I'm not buying anymore X-Men. And I told Brevroort that, and I told the other execs that, so I don't see why not buying any Marvel at all makes any bigger a point, when I clearly enjoy the other stuff. If I won't enjoy it, I don't get it, and I can't enjoy X-Men without Kurt.
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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:58 pm

I guess I just never read a lot of comics other than X-Men.

I'm relatively new to the medium and I don't have the kind of money required these days to really collect a wide variety of comics. It's actually easier for me to simply boycott Marvel than to find more comics they release that I like. If I seem cold toward Marvel it's because they took out the one thing that made me read comics.

Granted they didn't get a lot of money from me in the first place so my boycott is basically worthless, but still.
~Def.
"A dedicated follower of nothing." -- graffitit artist in Brick Lane, London, England.
Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.

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Post by Angelique » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:11 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote: I am upset they killed Kurt, so I'm not buying anymore X-Men. And I told Brevroort that, and I told the other execs that, so I don't see why not buying any Marvel at all makes any bigger a point, when I clearly enjoy the other stuff.
Because if they don't pay attention to the letters and messages, they do pay attention to the bottom line.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:15 pm

I just fail to see the purpose of boycotting a comic you could possibly enjoy because your favorite character in another multiiverse/team died. I stop buying those books, and I watch those sales plummet as the rest of my cohortes do the same, that's how I see my point being made. How is your point any stronger by not buying... say, "X-Men: Forever"? Or "Death of Dracula" The lead up to the big Blade event.
Claremont didn't kill Kurt, he loves him! And Blade isn't responsible, don't put this on poor Blade! Help him out, if the book is good! He's a great character!

[Edited on 5/6/10 by Ult_Sm86]
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Post by Angelique » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:45 am

I'm not sure Marvel cares which books do badly vs. which books do well, provided something sells. If sales of one book drop, they're not going to worry about what's going wrong with the book and try to improve it as long as another book is taking up the slack.

Me, I'm not into any of the Marvel titles you've mentioned except X-Men Forever (My interest in Spider-man has been on, then off, then on, and now most emphatically OFF) , and I almost dropped that too because really, any reminder that Nightcrawler's been relegated exclusively to AU comics kind of depresses me.
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Post by Diablo » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:59 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I just fail to see the purpose of boycotting a comic you could possibly enjoy because your favorite character in another multiiverse/team died. I stop buying those books, and I watch those sales plummet as the rest of my cohortes do the same, that's how I see my point being made. How is your point any stronger by not buying... say, "X-Men: Forever"? Or "Death of Dracula" The lead up to the big Blade event.
Claremont didn't kill Kurt, he loves him! And Blade isn't responsible, don't put this on poor Blade! Help him out, if the book is good! He's a great character!

[Edited on 5/6/10 by Ult_Sm86]
In Claremont's X-Men forever, Kurt Wagner isn't blue, fuzzy or funny anymore. Hes' not Nightcrawler.
As for Marvel, there was a time I collected Daredevil, Hulk, Avengers, and so on. I guess I've changed, because those stories I've been following for 20 years don't appeal to me anymore. I think Daredevil was better during Frank Miller's run, Hulk was better during Peter David, X-Men was better when it was just Chris Claremont, and so on. Mainstream comics fail to surprise me or just entertain me... with the notable exception of the Hellboy line, Savage Dragon, and some Vertigo titles.
Regarding my relation to Marvel, it was a slow process. Once again, this universe doesn't appeal to me anymore. What is left is my irrational interest for the blue elf. I know that the instant he comes back, I'll buy the title he will be in.

You can see my point of view like this : I dig the elf so much that every time a big event in the Marve U happens (like Siege, or the Skrull invasion), I'm sad because he isn't a part of it. It keeps me from enjoying my read : for me, something is just missing.
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Post by Wahnsinn » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:03 am

From Brevoort's Formspring (one of my follow-up questions):
Re: Needing to "make the best calls he can" in "the heat of the moment." - Ariel, Pixie, and Vanisher were still available and could've fetched Hope in seconds with 2 jumps. What made Kurt, who needed many exhausting jumps, Scott's best call?

Look at that list, and then tell me: if you're Cyclops, and you're facing a life-or death situation for all of mutantkind, who do you send: The enthusiastic newbie? The former villain. The character so obscure I'm not even sure who they are? Or do you send the person who's been a backbone of your team almost since it'd begun. I know which of these characters I'd trust in that situation.
The description of Ariel's rather revealing, no? :shifty

Rather than point out that Scott sent Pixie, the last remaining teleporter besides the ex-villain before he was incapacitated, off to Limbo, I sent a follow-up on Ariel. Since Scott did send Ariel to take Rogue to the group containing Hope to function as the diversion team's teleporter, he could have easily asked her to return to Utopia with Hope before the teams split up. Since I'm ignoring the possibility that Scott's stupid, I said his decision only makes sense if he's on Bastion's side. After all, what better way to get rid of Kurt than to send him off on a mission that is guaranteed to leave him and his companions exhausted if they run into a fight? (Alas, there was no space for that last bit, so I can only hope Brevoort is able to follow that train of thought on his own.)

Oddly, the more I think about Scott being on Bastion's side, the more some of his decisions make sense. :shocked

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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by Elfdame » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:28 pm

[semi-OT] Am about to read the X-men First Class with Nighty in it. I love Marvel Adventures (tho EMMA crept into SPIDEY's run, sheesh) and First Class is pretty close to that tween feel. Old-timey fun comics. Not sure if he is still in First Class as this is an older, bound, library version. [back to our topic now]

I've lost interest in when he'll come back to the Scott And Ho Show.
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Post by Nandireya » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:03 am

Diablo wrote: Aw, don't be so sad !!
There are still great comic books out there, fine mangas, novels, movies or TV shows to be passionate about.

Nightcrawler surely is the best comic book character ever, I'm really, really sad too, but we have to think of it as a hiatus for the elf. He won't be dead forever.

That said, I admit the world was a better place with a blue elf in it. This particular Marvel staff is really heartless.
(and, I must say, quite stupid !)
But I'm so good at being sad...

I'm open to some manga, novel, movie or TV show suggestions though...
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Post by Diablo » Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:52 am

Nandireya wrote: But I'm so good at being sad...

I'm open to some manga, novel, movie or TV show suggestions though...

Hello Nandy.

Here my suggestions, all the things I watch and read that make me feel good, now that Nightcrawler is in comic books limboes.

Comics :

. Hellboy. BPRD. Witchfinder. And all the Mignola titles at Dark Horse. Great and clever stuff, folklore and fantasy mixed in a good way.
. Also at Dark Horse : The Goon, Umbrella Academy, Buffy eigth season (if you were a fan of the TVshow that is. If not, go and see it ! )
. DC Vertigo : Fables, Y the last man.
. Image : Savage Dragon (a title which was below average in the beginning, but which, right now is really enjoyable. Because everything can and will happen !)
. Alan Moore's league of extraordinary gentlemen. Don't hold your breath between issues, but, honestly, it's always worth the wait !
. Oldies : V is for Vendetta. From Hell. Neil Gaiman’s Sandman.


Mangas :

This is a tricky one, because I don't know which titles are available in your country.
I'll go with the most famous ones. You can read them or see their anime adaptation.
. Death Note. A young boy named Light finds a strange notebook. When he writes a name in it, the victim dies. This power soon overwhelms him. A famous detective tries to unmask Light and stop him… A really clever manga !
. One Piece. Pirates, but funny ones. Probably the best mainstream shonen right now. This manga sometimes made me laugh and cry at the same time. It seems the imagination of Eichiiro Oda has no limits.
.Fullmetal Alchemist. Two young brothers lost their mom. They tried to get her back from the dead, through alchemy. Now the younger one is trapped in a huge body armour. To save him, his bro tries to find the famous philosopher’s stone. Despite this sad background, the story isn't without its funny moments !
.Mushishi. My favourite manga. Ginko is spiritual doctor, who hunts down mushis, really small creatures which disturb the everyday life of numerous people. Sometimes he succeds. Sometimes, his patients just have to face their own destiny…
.XXXHolic. Tales of ghosts and spirits. Funny, and strange.
.D. Gray-man. Exorcists who fights demons. Really super-heroic like, with wonderful art.
.Bleach. Shinigamis (gods of death) versus evil spirits. Same coment.
.Code Geass (only the anime version !).
.Oldies : Evangelion (only the anime version too. The best mecha anime ever.)



TV shows.
Don’t know where to begin !...

. Doctor Who (from 2005 to today, the first season is quite cheap, but after that,believe me, it’s epic !).
. Also from UK : Torchwood (same coment), Life on Mars (the british version)
. From US : Dexter. Weeds. Dollhouse (first season). Battlestar Galactica (the new version). Pushing daisies (short lived, but brilliant !)
For the fun : How I met your mother. Scrubs. The big bang theory.
Oldies : Buffy. Angel. Twin Peaks (which is still my favourite show). The Prisoner (UK show from the sixties)



Movies.

.Terry Gilliam’s work (12monkeys. the imaginarium of Dr Parnassus. Munschhausen. Brazil)
. David Lynch’s movies (the strangest movies you’ll ever see. Only if you saw and liked the Twin Peaks TV show : Mullholland Drive, Inland Empire, Lost Highway. )
.Guillermo Del Toro’s Pan’s Labyrinth.
.Jean-Pierre Jeunet’s Amelie.
.Also : all of Hayao Miyazaki stuff. Better than old Disney movies for me. More poetic, with an ecologic message.


Novels.
Phillip Pullman’s "His dark materials" trilogy. More complex than Harry Potter.
Robin Hobb’s Farseer Trilogy (but not the sequel !)
I could also quote numerous French writers that I like …



OK, I hope that this will un-sadden you, Nandy. :D
Feel free to ask any questions that you want. :)


[Edited on 13-6-2010 by Diablo]
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Post by Angelique » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:52 pm

kladyelf wrote:do you know what this means?

Marvel is now a ZOMBIE!!! *eeps, runs, hides* gaah, where's the traditional zombie weapons when ya really need 'em?


Your friendly neighborhood redneck geek has a few in store, not to worry.

As for Marvel being a zombie, personally, let's just hope they're the traditional kind, and the Disney-bocor tells them to stop killing off or irreperably corrupting their properties. They won't have the will or power to resist!

If Marvel's become the horror/post-apocalyptic/dystopian sci-fi kind of zombie, no thanks. I find Max Brooks, George Romero, and small press horror comics infinitely more fun.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Post by BAMFCentralII » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:16 pm

oooh Max brooks, World War Z, great book. oh wait off topic nvm...

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