How should nightcrawler return?

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How should nightcrawler return?

Postby neling4 » Wed May 26, 2010 12:33 pm

Death is a tricky subject in comics. As comic book characters often hop in and out of the afterlife like it has a revolving door, how does a writer communicate the proper gravitas death commands to the readers of a particular title? This was the challenge facing scribe Matt Fraction as seen in last week's "Uncanny X-Men," and according to fans...he knocked it out of the park!


That last sentence still makes me angry. What fans? Certainly not Nightcrawler fans. We didn't want him dead at all.

They should have killed Cyclops. They have turned him into an idiot and a jerk. Death would be an improvement.
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Postby Angelique » Wed May 26, 2010 1:12 pm

The elipses could mean that the sentence originally read "according to fans, on a scale of 1-10 in crappiness, he knocked it out of the park."
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How should nightcrawler return?

Postby Dedicatedfollower467 » Wed May 26, 2010 4:37 pm

Unfortunately, I really believe that Nightcrawler's death was one of the best comics we've seen for him in the past few years. It was rather well-written (except for the continuity errors and the issue with the way his teleporting works -- but that's never really been officially nailed down). It was symbolic and poetic.

It was also a bit of an important plot point. If Nightcrawler had lived, the X-Men would not be in the pickle that they are currently in. I haven't been reading Second Coming, but my friend has been keeping me up-to-date, and it appears to me that having a teleporter like Nightcrawler would make the trap that they are in right now totally useless.

At the same time, gratuitous death-and-resurrection of characters is highly annoying. Especially characters for whom religious beliefs make death-and-resurrection a highly important point in their lives. When Nightcrawler comes back, how will his experiences (or non-experiences) while he was dead affect him? Death for a character who has a Judeo-Christian faith has got to be profound and life-changing, and not necessarily in a good way.
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RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Postby Wahnsinn » Wed May 26, 2010 5:12 pm

Dedicatedfollower467 wrote:Unfortunately, I really believe that Nightcrawler's death was one of the best comics we've seen for him in the past few years. It was rather well-written (except for the continuity errors and the issue with the way his teleporting works -- but that's never really been officially nailed down). It was symbolic and poetic.

It was also a bit of an important plot point. If Nightcrawler had lived, the X-Men would not be in the pickle that they are currently in. I haven't been reading Second Coming, but my friend has been keeping me up-to-date, and it appears to me that having a teleporter like Nightcrawler would make the trap that they are in right now totally useless.


Methinks his teleportation's been nailed down enough to make the mechanics used problematic. It's long been established that he can overwhelm an opponent with punches through multiple teleports around that opponent. If his teleportation had even a two-second delay, that would be impossible because his target would have enough time to recover enough to move. What Bastion was shown doing between Kurt's disappearance and manifestation would have easily taken two seconds, given that he's not as speedy as Northstar or Quicksilver.

Kurt didn't need to die to be incapacitated, which seems to be what they've done with Vanisher. He could have been put in a coma, banished to the Brimstone dimension, shot with a long-lasting power-screwer-upper, etc.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Postby Karl » Wed May 26, 2010 5:16 pm

I've ordered that issue, but haven't gotten it yet, so am unable to comment on any of the details of what happened.
If we knew for sure that Kurt would be returned to us in some way and reasonably soon, it wouldn't be so bad. But I've been in fandoms where a character gets killed off, everyone gets horribly upset over it, but by the time he's brought back (if he ever is), too many of the fans who were mainly interested in that character have unhappily moved on to other interests, since the person they truly cared about wasn't there anymore. I'm not saying this isn't a natural thing to do, and it would probably happen to me at some point. After all, how long can one live in the past, with no new input to keep the fans involved?

But I'm getting off topic, as this is supposed to be about how Nightcrawler should return. Frankly, I don't care how he returns, as long as he does it soon. What I hate most is not knowing. The main thing I'd want from Marvel now is for them to tell us to be patient and he will be back, or tell us flat out that he won't ever return. But I doubt we'll get either of those responses.
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How should nightcrawler return?

Postby Angelique » Wed May 26, 2010 7:05 pm

If Marvel is smart and wants to bring back the readership they've lost with this move, they'll bring Nightcrawler back before we've completely moved on. And they won't wait forty years like they did with Bucky.
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Postby Elwing » Wed May 26, 2010 7:35 pm

He should return like doc McCoy did in "Shore Leave". With a big grin, a babe in each arm and a mint julep. :cracked
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How should nightcrawler return?

Postby BAMFCentralII » Wed May 26, 2010 7:41 pm

awe why not RUM that seems more pirat-ie no?
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed May 26, 2010 9:52 pm

BAMFCentralII wrote:awe why not RUM that seems more pirat-ie no?


Well Marvel is partnered/owned by Disney now, so you can totally have him walk out without any rum and have Sparrow just walk on panel and yell "BUT WHERE'S THE RUM!"
and there's infringing on copyrights!!
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How should nightcrawler return?

Postby Wahnsinn » Thu May 27, 2010 7:55 am

And I now have the mental image of Kurt hanging out in the crow's nest of the Flying Dutchman and hollering, "Land, ho!" as it approaches Utopia's shore. :LOL
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How should nightcrawler return?

Postby Dedicatedfollower467 » Thu May 27, 2010 7:13 pm

...

STAR TREK REFERENCE FTW!!!

Sorry I'm obsessed with Star Trek now that my favorite comic book character is dead. That is DEFINITELY the way Kurt should come back. And do the whole, "Oh, look, there's my crush, okay, girls, you need to go find somebody else."

Kurt on the Flying Dutchman is SO perfect. Pirate!Kurt is one of the best versions of him.
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RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.
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Postby Elfdame » Thu May 27, 2010 8:06 pm

Yes, I'm off topic as usual (unless you count Pirate Kurt as being the way he should return).

Dedicatedfollower467 wrote:Pirate!Kurt is one of the best versions of him.


And in the 1985 four-part solo series : SPACE PIRATE KURT!!! (also kinda-sorta in Excalibur cross-time caper, but I've not read it all)
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How should nightcrawler return?

Postby neling4 » Thu May 27, 2010 9:19 pm

The only way he could return would be:

1. If he escaped from the coffin.

2. If he were never in the coffin at all.

3. If somehow Logan's senses were befuddled, otherwise he would know if Kurt were not in the coffin or if he had escaped from the coffin.

Perhaps Professor Xavier, or even Emma, has altered everyone's perceptions. Didn't Cyclops keep the knowledge that Professor Xavier had survived being shot in the head from everyone else for a time, and didn't he keep the Professor's whereabouts unknown to everyone else as well?






[Edited on 27/5/10 by neling4]
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Postby Wahnsinn » Fri May 28, 2010 7:01 am

4. A reality-warper remakes him.
5. Somebody goes back in time and saves him.
6. The piece left in Bastion takes over, remakes Bastion's body in Kurt's image, and the Blue Fairy makes him into a real boy.
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Postby Elfdame » Fri May 28, 2010 5:40 pm

Wahnsinn wrote:4. A reality-warper remakes him.
5. Somebody goes back in time and saves him.
6. The piece left in Bastion takes over, remakes Bastion's body in Kurt's image, and the Blue Fairy makes him into a real boy.


{sigh} Where's Jamie Braddock when ya need him?
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Postby neling4 » Fri May 28, 2010 7:17 pm

X-Force + Cable have gone into the future to stop the Nimrod/sentinals. Perhaps they will stop Bastion at his origin, thus making Kurt's death null and void.

I like that. It never happened. :D
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Postby Wahnsinn » Fri May 28, 2010 9:56 pm

Elfdame wrote:
Wahnsinn wrote:4. A reality-warper remakes him.
5. Somebody goes back in time and saves him.
6. The piece left in Bastion takes over, remakes Bastion's body in Kurt's image, and the Blue Fairy makes him into a real boy.


{sigh} Where's Jamie Braddock when ya need him?


It seems the Scarlet Witch is making her return. She could do it.
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Postby Nandireya » Sat May 29, 2010 10:15 am

Well...I've officially dropped all my X-Titles. I haven't been enjoying them...or really even reading them...for a very long time...probably since most of them became The Scott and Emma Show...with very special Guest Star: Wolverine! Even if Kurt does return, I'm not sure I will.

I'm actually feeling pretty down at the moment. I've been reading comics for so long...and the X-Titles are really all I had...everything else I'd been reading was either cancelled or has finished. I feel a bit like Inigo Montoya...now that it's over, I don't know what to do with the rest of my life...or at least for my escape from real life.

I still have the internet I suppose...
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Postby neling4 » Sat May 29, 2010 6:38 pm

I feel the same way. :(
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sat May 29, 2010 10:15 pm

Hey, look!

Kurt's back!

[Edited on 29/5/10 by Ult_Sm86]
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Postby Karl » Sat May 29, 2010 11:05 pm

This is supposed to be funny???
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Postby Bamfing_Bob » Sun May 30, 2010 6:15 am

You can't blame him... props of the link!
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Postby Karl » Sun May 30, 2010 11:51 pm

"You can't blame him... props of the link!"

??? I don't get it.
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Postby kladyelf » Mon May 31, 2010 6:15 am

re: Nand's post:

"Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my favourite character, prepare to die"

Scott/Bastion/Whoever: "eep"

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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Mon May 31, 2010 6:56 am

1) I was in Las Vegas & Very drunk this weekend, so I honestly have a vague recollection of thinking this would be funny.

2) Watching it sober.... it's pretty funny yeah. And as an Elf Fan, I am sorry if it does sting but I think the lyrics are great:

"Never gonna give you up.
Never gonna let you down.
Never gonna run around and
desert you.
Never gonna make you cry,
never gonna say good bye!
Never gonna tell a lie--
AND HURT YOU!"

:shifty :toothy sorry.
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