A Song of Ice and Fire

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Bamfette
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A Song of Ice and Fire

Post by Bamfette »

While on my little hiatus from the forum, I finished reading this series, by George R.R. Martin. you rememebr that comic the Hedge Knight that image released a while back? same world, different (except one) characters. While looking to talk about it with someone, all the other threads I've found have been... a bit superficial... I'm really more interested in discussing some of the more in depth character growth and political intrigue that is the story's strong point....

So has anyone else read it? PLEASE say someone else here has read it...

If so, which characters do you enjoy the most (or love to hate) and why?

At first, I really didn't like Jaime Lannister, he seemed like a pretty one dimensional bad guy cliche to start off. But ever since his redemption story started when [spoiler]Catelyn freed him to get her daughters back[/spoiler], he's really grown on me, and he has become one of my favorites. His growth as a character has been pretty rapid, but even so, it doesn't feel unnatural. He's had some good catalysts to set him down that path, which makes it feel natural. The example set by Brienne and of course him losing the thing that defined him the most, [spoiler]his sword hand. Being that he was defined by his prowess as a knight, having that suddenly stripped away is a good catalyst for him to re-evaluate his life.[/spoiler] As well as Cersei's growing paranoia.... Granted, he's far from perfect, and I definitely do not condone some of his past actions, almost nothing can make up for [spoiler]attempting to kill an 8 year old boy.[/spoiler] But the fact that he's trying makes him interesting as a character. Another thing that I liked, was when he described to Brienne his reasons for his most notorious act, killing the king. It brougth up a message which I always find appealing in books, it seems... In the medieval setting of the series, keeping an oath is considered to be a huge deal.... but is it really better to keep your oath even if it becomes clear that it's immoral to do so? It was always said the king was 'mad' but when Jaime told Brienne the level of madness, how evil the kings actions were, Jaime may have been sworn to protect the king, but given what he was doing, what he was preparing to do, [spoiler](consume all of Kings Landing in Wildfire rather than be captured)[/spoiler] can Jaime really be considered evil for his actions? Jaime was villainized all this time for saving thousands of lives, all because in the process he broke an oath. It makes you think. It also makes you feel bad for the guy, becuase no one trusts him because of that one incident. I also can't help but like how Martin writes him, he is quite charming in a rogue sort of way. I would like to see him turn against his family and perhaps join up with Daenerys, but I feel a 'noble death' is in his future. Him sacrificing his life to save lives, or something. Redeeming himself in death. There certainly is a lot of death in these books, so it seems most likely, but maybe Martin will surprise me. whatever happens, I'm certain it will be interesting..

I also find Tyrion to be interesting as well... I always thought, now here's a guy, he's a dwarf and a Lannister, but he doesn't let it get to him. He's not a bad guy, when you get down to it. But then things piled up against him to the point that where just as Jaime had a turning point that set him on a better path, Tyrion's set him on a darker one. He started to become what everyone wanted/assumed him to be. If people had accepted him, could look past his deformities, his family, and so much more that he has absolutely no control over, and villify him for those things, he could have been a great man. He's intelligent, well spoken, and until [spoiler]he murdered his father[/spoiler] he seemed to be the most moral of the Lannisters, barring Cersei's youngest children (not Joffrey, who was just an ass). But no one would give him a chance, not even his own father, only a few ever treated him well, and eventually it just made him crack, [spoiler]I think being framed for a murder you did not commit by your own family would do that to a lot of people.[/spoiler] Really a sad tale, and I hope that in future books, he is able to pull himself back up, somehow.

Okay, that will get things started, the Lannisters... I also like Jon Snow, Bran, The Onion Knight, and more, and love to hate the Red Priestess, Cersei, and Littlefinger. but wont get into that unless there's some more people interested int he books...
The Drastic Spastic
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A Song of Ice and Fire

Post by The Drastic Spastic »

I actually love Littlefinger. He's an slimy social-climber, but he's so good at it. And the weird little relationship he has with his "daughter". Brrr. I did like Cersei, but by the end of the final book I was hoping she'd just die already. She started out evil and cunning, but by the end she was just evil. Poor old bitch.

I didn't see Tyrion at the end as an immoral character, or even really darker than he had been. It's been awhile since I read the books (about a year) but to me that was about him finally realizing that his family situation was impossible, something he'd been in denial about his entire life. If Jaime eventually turning against his family would be good, how is Tyrion doing it first immoral?

You could even make a connection between [spoiler]him killing his father[/spoiler] and Jaime breaking his oath. They could both be argued as the right thing to do morally, even if the actions didn't fit their codes of honour. Though I think in both cases it ultimately came down to self-serving reasons - Tyrion was enraged over personal insults and Jaime didn't want to burn along with everyone else. I probably wouldn't call it evil, but it was definitely self-serving, and the main purpose of those medievel oaths of loyalty was to prevent inferiors from acting in their own self-interest. If Jaime had truly done it to save everyone else, then maybe it would have turned out differently for him afterward, but everyone knew him as an arrogant little prick, and knew his motive.
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