Chuck's farewell.

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Chuck's farewell.

Post by Diablo »

Okay, since NOBODY comes to discuss the ongoing comics in the threads above this section, I'll come here.
(yeah, I'm quite mad :evil)

Bamfette, PLEASE, I have a question, and my U2U doesn't work anymore it seems.

So, here it is:
What exactly happens at the end of X-Men#164 ??
Who's Carter's imaginary friend ??
Cassandra Nova ? (can't be the Shadow King since Carter said it's a "she")
And who the hell is Carter's father ?? What had Chuck in mind for this subplot ?

I need an answer please !
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Post by Bamfette »

ok, well, I don't really talk to Chuck about upcoming plots as much as i used to, and i have switched to trades entirely (hence my absence from the above threads lately) to boycott fanboy run comic shops, so i haven't read this yet. you know, the ones who won't add something to your pull list, even though all it means is adding a number to their regular Diamond order and it doesn't cost them anything extra, just because they personally don't like it. (i'll only buy from bookstores and from amazon.com. screw the fanboys. plus i just like trades, i've been considering this for a while minus the only from bookstores bit for quite a while of dealing with the clutter of individual issues versus the orderliness of the trades on my shelf.) if someone does this to you, it usually happens with kinda indyish books, (one, ask while holding a stack of comics for purchase for maximum effect), if they refuse you any book which is oderable via Diamond, and they do normally provide pull lists for customers, slam that stack of comics down on the counter, and walk out. find someplace else that runs their store like an actual business, or go to trades. thse guys don't deserve to be in business. it costs them NOTHING extra to order a book in special for you, so long as it is orderable via Diamond (or Cold cut in most stores cases, tho some do order exclusively via Diamond, but most do use Cold Cut as well so they can get in JTHM back issues among others). all they have to do is add a number to a list, then when it arrives in the same box as all their other comics, stick it in your file then collect the profit. if they are doing pull files anyway, it does not mean any extra work. you can offer to pay in advance if they are worried about you not buying it once it is in. ok, that's my rant...

I read the first 2 issues of the final arc in script, but that's all so far. so i am not entirely sure what you mean by the first question. but i think it is ok to spill a little what i know, considering i really doubt it will ever get seen in print. keep in mind what i said about not talking to him about plots. I just haven't asked him about half this stuff in quite a while, kinda moved on to other topics of conversation. ALSO keep in mind some of this was things editors wanted, but executed in a way Chuck decided. or sometimes mostly editors, sometimes mostly Chuck, it's hard to keep track of what's what. Cassandra Nova, mostly editors, and so will likely be touched upon in the future in some way, but likely not exactly the SAME way.
[spoiler]
ok, let me take a stab at this, Chuck only told me a few generalities... they got sucked into a black hole. he was supposed to kill them, and/or make Cain evil, Milligan didn't want them, or something, i dunno the reasons, and this was his way of killing them in a vague way so they could be brought back (they could be in another dimension rather than being crushed by incredible forces of gravity. unlike Sammy who was not vague, he's dead dead.) but that may have changed since last i heard in San Diego....

yes, it was Cassandra Nova. this one it a bit confusing. Cassandra Nova, to try and explain Magneto being on Genosha the whole time when he was shown on panel in New York, was behind EVERYTHING in Morrison's final arc, and then some. it was basically Cassandra Nova in the form of Magneto pretending to be Xorn sometime shortly following the NXM Annual where Xorn was first introduced.

Carter's father... dum dum dum... Magneto. (oh, be quiet, it won't happen now anyway) I actually argued Chuck on this one a bit, arguing Carter was not old enough, but hey, there you go. brief fling with Annie. doesn't matter now, Carter will likely never appear again.[/spoiler]
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Post by Diablo »

Wow.
Thank you Jill. :)

I don't know if we'll never see Carter again. The ending of issue#164 was... disturbing !
Carter seemed evil.
With your explanations, it now seems he's Cassandra Nova's host.
So PERHAP'S:
Carter was the new Cassandra Nova who was playing Xorn playing Magneto.

Argh ! Editorial headache !

Regarding Carter's father : Magneto ??
Well, the guy had a long life.
He would have five kids, then.
Anya. Pietro and Wanda. Lorna. And Carter.
But you're right. We probably won't see that in print now.


Oh, and for the trades : yep, I love them too !!
But I couldn't wait for Chuck's stories or Darick's Nightcrawler, really !
...I just buy the trades later !
No wonder I haven't got enough money to buy a bigger appartment... :D

(and I'll keep an eye on your collaboration with Chuck with the coloured Worldwatch)
Hope he'll edit more titles.
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Post by Northstars Love »

I have a great comic shop near where I live. I have my own box and my books are waiting for me whenever I get there. They even put hot books of the week in my box that I don't collect. It is my choice whether I buy it or not but I never have a problem and I can pick up a book or cancel a book without a problem as well. Sorry you have had a problem with your local comic shop Jill. But I know where you are coming from.

There was a local comic shop in LA when I was living there and the woman that ran it was a terrible people person. She charged double to triple price for back issues. I remember I needed X-Men 101 and it was $25.00 Price Guide and she tried to charge me $75.00 for the book in VF condition. WTF!! I told here to forget it. She was nothing more than a rip off artist! :mad

I read the first 2 issues of the final arc in script, but that's all so far. so i am not entirely sure what you mean by the first question. but i think it is ok to spill a little what i know, considering i really doubt it will ever get seen in print. keep in mind what i said about not talking to him about plots. I just haven't asked him about half this stuff in quite a while, kinda moved on to other topics of conversation. ALSO keep in mind some of this was things editors wanted, but executed in a way Chuck decided. or sometimes mostly editors, sometimes mostly Chuck, it's hard to keep track of what's what. Cassandra Nova, mostly editors, and so will likely be touched upon in the future in some way, but likely not exactly the SAME way.
[spoiler]
ok, let me take a stab at this, Chuck only told me a few generalities... they got sucked into a black hole. he was supposed to kill them, and/or make Cain evil, Milligan didn't want them, or something, i dunno the reasons, and this was his way of killing them in a vague way so they could be brought back (they could be in another dimension rather than being crushed by incredible forces of gravity. unlike Sammy who was not vague, he's dead dead.) but that may have changed since last i heard in San Diego....

yes, it was Cassandra Nova. this one it a bit confusing. Cassandra Nova, to try and explain Magneto being on Genosha the whole time when he was shown on panel in New York, was behind EVERYTHING in Morrison's final arc, and then some. it was basically Cassandra Nova in the form of Magneto pretending to be Xorn sometime shortly following the NXM Annual where Xorn was first introduced.

Carter's father... dum dum dum... Magneto. (oh, be quiet, it won't happen now anyway) I actually argued Chuck on this one a bit, arguing Carter was not old enough, but hey, there you go. brief fling with Annie. doesn't matter now, Carter will likely never appear again.
[spoiler]Cassandra Nova was Xorn/Mags? *sigh* I have a hard time accepting that. Physically I can't. Mentally possessed by Cassandra I can. The whole thing is rather confusing really. I get the feeling that bringing back Mags the writers are trying too hard to explain away why it wasn't really Mags. Can't we just make it simple? :P How did the fake Mags copy his powers? This isn't directed at you soley Jill. lol! I just need some answers to how.[/spoiler]

I'm starting to get a headache now. 0_o *sniff*

[spoiler]Mags is Carter's dad? lol! A regular Johnny Appleseed isn't he? ok, now that it won't happen I won't have all these why's and how's waiting in the wings. hehehehe...[/spoiler]
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Post by msgt »

[spoiler]Xorn and Cassandra Nova were in stories together, after the New X-men annual (like in New X-men 126!).

Also Ernst was Cassandra Nova. There was speculation that Austen didn't notice this, does anyone know if it was true that Austen didn't realize (or just didn't want to address) Ernst as Cassandra?

I'm really glad that explanation wasn't used. If anything you'd think Sublime would have been responsible for fake Magneto being impersonated by Xorn which acted like he was Magneto impersonating Xorn.

Ouch. Head majorly hurts now.

[/spoiler]
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Post by Crawler »

It was definitely NOT Chuck's idea to have Cassandra behind the Magneto stuff, and I believe it was Morrison's intent that that was the REAL Magneto.

Then they decided they wanted Clareneto back and back NOW, so they made up a retcon and had Chuck and Claremont implement it, but slowly. I'm not sure it's even come out yet, as I don't read Uncanny, but I think this is likely still the idea and that the big explanation that people are waiting for (next issue, is it?) over there is that it was Cassandra all along.

The Ernst thing is what I'm wondering about, as well. I think they may just ignore that, saying that she took Ernst over later or was never Ernst or whatever.

They decided they didn't like it, but they approved it anyway and now are shoehorning it into a new half-assed explanation.
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Post by Bamfette »

right. this Cassie nova stuff was not Chuck's idea, and he infact feels really bad about stomping all over Morrison's stories. but he has no choice in the matter. he LIKED that Magneto was behind everything. he liked that Mags was scary again. (sorry Clarneto fans) the editors changed their minds on making Magneto behind it all VERY quickly (he was forced to re-write the second issue of that Mags funeral arc in ONE DAY to make it somewhat fit) the Ernst thing - he didn't know. remember, he had to rely on what the editors gave him on that issue since the issues were not yet released when he wrote his. they gave him the scripts, and he worked off of those, the ennst bit was not in the scripts, it was a later addition, and they neglected to mention that bit.
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Post by msgt »

Thanks for the info.

I absolutely loved New X-men, and I wish Morrison's stories had been left alone. I also thought his Magneto was excellent. Planet X was a really good story, but all big daring stories in the X-universe seem to get retconned over (like the Dark Phoenix).

I only buy Astonishing right now and I'll pick up Phoenix Endsong, but I read the comics in the library to keep up.

[spoiler]In Excalibur Claremont is hinting at Mr. Sinister's involvment. THe green eyes that shown up to Carter in Austen's run seemingly appeared before in Excalibur. Claremont had Xavier see a pair of green eyes (but they weren't evil looking). The eyes began to flame up ( kinda like phoenix) and Xavier said he was trying to find out who was behind everything and he sees what appears to be Mr. Sinisters face.

A few issues later and during a flashback of Magneto's childhood Sinister also seemingly makes an appearance.

I have a feeling that it'll be in Excalibur where it will be revealed who was behind what.

Having Cassandra being behind Xorneto just seems like a bad idea, and it'll will severely damage New X-men's story. NOt only the confusion with Ernst, but as to when Nova was controling Xorn.

As much as I like Astonishing right now... I still think GM's New X-men has been better so far.

The Xorn/Magneto thing has become a big mess. The slow build up to the revelation of the true culprit also contributes to the confusion.

I still think Sublime would have been a better explanation. They could have had Phoenix come back from the future and explain to them about Sublime what "truly" happened.

In HCT we learn that Sublime was behind almost everything, just like before that it was Magneto and before that we believed it was Cassandra Nova.

It still boggles my mind that in the Avengers a hero can loose it and kill several of her teammates, and thats ok but Magneto who is a Villian can't do villianous things like mass murder without being retconned.

Another theory that some fans had was that Wanda was responsbile for Xorneto just like she was responsible for Disassembled. [/spoiler]

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Post by Paty »

:mags
Well... since GM went so far over the top that Avi Arad had to descend on Marvel and order the editors to bring the books in line with the much more lucrative movieverse, what did anyone expect? The last half of Morrison's run was nothing but sex, violence and incomprehension... and the total devolvement of the heroic superhero. Typical Brit/Scots cynicism... which does not sell in heartland America ...and rightly so.
so... Avi Arad has a big hit on his hands with X movies based on heroic X people of the eighties... CLAREMONT X people...and when the movies come out and people go to the sotres to see more of characters they REALLY like...like MAGNETO...what do they find? The Planet X abomination.
And Avi Arad cannot sell merchandising stuff... which is BIG BUCKS for Marvel. So Avi Arad blew a gasket and marched into Marvel and laid down the law. and rightly so. on that front, too!
From a corporate standpoint, Morrison's run was nothing short of catastrophic. Dead or devolved superheroes who were murderers and adulterers just does not play in America. Let his Lairdship keep his wonderful shit over in Britain... but Nooooo... America, which has given him mucho bucks to come and spout his venom, is hateful to him. He doesn't like America... he has said so on his own forums. So why is this viper writing books here? Bucks, kiddies... he doesn't care about anything but his own bank account... and since his wonderful fandom hasnot seen fit to follow him over to DC and make his wonderful new title Seaguy an instant hit... he whines about it furiously. Dissing the fans that DID follow him...the more fools they.

With the massive corporate sabotage that Morrison initiated with Planet X, doing horrible things with valuable merchandisable properties that HE DID NOT OWN...Marvel had to do something to salvage their characters. that they elected to keep as much of his drek as they did is a miracle.. and Morrison fans should thank their lucky strs that it wasn't completely retconned back to the attack on Genosha! I would have done exactly that if I owned Marvel! But they elected to keep some of his elements and use them. This is more than Morrison allowed to former writers whose work he completely ignored and stomped all over with hobnail boots...sieg heil!

Morrison has no room to yell about his stuff being ignored or retconned.His fans have no room to whine, either. He ignored writers who were on the books and establishing canon when he was in short pants, wiping his snotty nose. He completely ignored DECADES of canon and history and character development and, like a petulant six year old, said "This is so because I say it is so..." and readers gleefully followed him ... mainly because they were too lazy to read all the books and understand what had come before in the lives of the characters...how they had evolved and who they were. Because if they had read all these books, they would have KNOWN what RBM was ignoring and leaving out...but they didn't...or they chose to be just as ignorant and closeminded in their little destructive paths. Like to like, I guess...

But aside from the total lack of respect for other creator's work that formed the Universe he was playing in and on which he built his pile of shit, Morrison blew a gasket for some unknown reason and tried in the Planet X arc to destroy as many Marvel characters as he could lay his hands on... continuing his rampage into the Future arc. So Marvel has been very lenient with this bull in a china shop. Personally, I would have made hamburger of him. Ground up every rancid thing he wrote and tossed it to the dogs. But it would probably have made the dogs sick too...

In any event... stories and characters aside...Marvel HAD to rescue it's valuable commercial properties this smarmy Brit had shitted all over...and make them the kind of heroes again that Americans would like and buy.
And that's the simple truth.

That Marvel is tying itself in knots to keep ANY of Morrison's drek is amazing... considering the vast economic mess he has created for them to clean up. He stirs the pot to keep his name in the headlines... cuz his insipid writing cannot do it. As a creator, if Seaguy is any indication, he sucks moose. He only rides to fame on the merits of already established characters that he proceeds to destroy... to the delight of bloodthirsty little puerile fans. And when his efforts elsewhere don't earn him the spotlight, he blames the fans for not following blindly where he leads. Poor RBM...real world kicking you in your pointed little teeth, boyo? whatta shame.

Carter Magneto's kid??? C'mon... Is Chuck smoking the same weed that Morrison is? PTUI! No freakin way!!! sorry... That is definately not our Mags! The one Claremont spent close to eighteen years constructing that Morrison and Byrne and all the little goosesteppers at Marvel tried vainly to tear apart. If Marvel is smart, they will root out the Harras coterie that still exists there which fed the Morrison debacle... and promoted the recent Avengers Disassemble debacle and kick their feathered asses out! and if they don't... they are so monumentally stupid that they deserve to go down in flames... and surely will...sooner or later.

Wit the results of the last election giving a lot of leeway to the overly sanctimonious jackasses that people the bible belt, the comic shops that have run sex and violence comics ... like Marvel the past five years or so...are gonna feel the heavy hand of censorship,I fear. Marvel is trying to circumvent this with a return to decent superhero storylines. they are trying to salvage something from the canon Morrison laid down... but having a hard time cuz there is so little worth saving. but for completists and canon watchers, they have to try to make some sense of it. That they have limited brainpower there is of no help whatsoever. Chris could do it but he is constrained by factions dancing around and trying to undermine him and trying to push their agendas... the same agendas that have made such a mess up to now.

The only person who could salvage the situation is Perlmutter... the owner... and he doesn't know enough about the industry OR Marvel to stomp in and say. "YOU...YOU... and YOU...OUT, AND DON'T COME BACK!!! Now turn this goddam thing around or you're all fired!" Perlmutter doesn't know enough about the industry to do this...whichis too bad. So Marvel sloshes on through a deepening pile of sewage...trying to turn it into pure drinkable water again.

Lotsa Luck, Marvel...ain't gonna happen until some serious housecleaning happens...and every person who aided and abetted WILLINGLY the disaster that was Planet X and the disaster that was Avengers Disassembled is gone.

And that's the unfortunate truth.

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Post by Diablo »

Bamfette wrote :
Chuck LIKED that Magneto was behind everything. he liked that Mags was scary again.
Hey, nobody's perfect ! ;)

As for Carter being Magnus's son -sorry Paty- I kinda liked the idea.
Weird, but interesting.

It's the word "Clareneto", I'm not really comfortable with. :mad
If you use that word, please speak about Morisseneto too. (LOL) ;)
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Post by mega-lupin »

Could the yellow eyes in the car behind carter have been Noctourne? She can posses people too if I am corrrect.
Perhaps it is all a subplot because I doubt that Annie and Carter are totally departing. Besides, Jubes and Husk are 'depoarting' and will still come back so why cannot they?
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Post by black mamba »

ALL I WANT 2 KNW. is wat chuck had planned for rogue and gambit. so far all i've seen him do to them are absolutely horrible things blinding gambit and then making him blame rogue etc. so plz, i just wanted to knw if chuck rlly planned something great for these characters bamfette.
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Post by Crawler »

It's the word "Clareneto", I'm not really comfortable with. :mad
Clareneto is not meant to imply that he's a false Magneto or anything. It there to separate the two different Magnetos for discussion's sake and is basically giving the "complex," "good" Magneto a name...since I feel the need to put those words in quotation marks in this instance.
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Post by Tatu »

Originally posted by Diablo
It's the word "Clareneto", I'm not really comfortable with. :mad
If you use that word, please speak about Morisseneto too. (LOL) ;)

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Post by Diablo »

The word "Clareneto" reminded me of the word "clarinet". Magnus suddenly seemed less, less frightening. Imagine a giant clarinet which wants to take over the world. :D
I couldn't name the Magneto I like "Clareneto", that's all. Just like you couldn't name him Morriseneto or Lobdelleto or Niciezetto or whatever.
Have we got different names for Nightcrawler ? No. We all use the word "Nightcrawler", even if there are a lot of different Nightcrawlers in our minds around here.
So sorry. I didn't want to sound offended. I wasn't.
And I should have been more explicit. :)
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Post by Crawler »

"See, Magneto wasn't Magneto. Magneto was on Genosha while Magneto destroyed New York. Jean killed Magneto and Xavier inexplicably escorted Magneto's body to Genosha, where he met up with Magneto."
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Post by idsunki »

I, for one, was sorry to see Chuck go. He had a way of making all of the characters their own people with their own dialogue. He had a way of making the characters people, actually.

I cannot say that I am comfortable with the personal attacks on both him and Grant Morrison by Paty. I completely understand that you do not like the current Marvel leadership, that you absolutely despise Grant Morrison, and that you wish Chris Claremont was given absolute dominion over all comic properties from now until the last trump blows. However, making accusations of drug use and even being a nazi is just without class. Also, accusing fans of being lazy for not wanting to buy/sift through over thirty years of continuity seems a little unrealistic. I can honestly say that I might agree with a point or two of yours if they were not delivered in such a hateful and spiteful manner.

I'm going to give fair play on the use of 'Clareneto' to denote Claremont's Magneto, as we do in fact use other names to separate Nightcrawler; Evo-Kurt, Comic-Kurt, AoA-Kurt, Movie-Kurt, etc. That, and I like clarinets. 'Morriseneto' sounds a little silly, but so does 'Magison,' so I guess you can take your pick. Maybe a shortening to C-Neto and M-Neto could work, because Magneto is rather neat-o, after all.

In regard to the last of Chuck Austen's run on Uncanny, [spoiler]I was sad to see Nocturne go, but she's got Juggernaut looking out for her, which is pretty awesome. And the bit with Carter and the crazy eyes, I hoped at first it was Nocturne. Yellow eyes, after all. However, the look on his face and the wrinkles around said eyes made me think of ol' Cassie Nova. Oh, and Wolverine totally pwned Sabertooth without taking up the whole issue. [/spoiler] Thanks Chuck!

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Post by Diablo »

Crawler wrote
"See, Magneto wasn't Magneto. Magneto was on Genosha while Magneto destroyed New York. Jean killed Magneto and Xavier inexplicably escorted Magneto's body to Genosha, where he met up with Magneto."
LOL
Ok, ok, captain. You're right. :)

Regarding Chuck's departure,as I wrote in another thread, I'm sad too because I really liked ALL of his run. Quite rare.
There were issues better than others but overall... what a ride !! Juggy, Northstar, Lorna, even Nightcrawler won't be the same after him. :)
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Post by Bamfette »

well said, Idsunki....

there was another post here by Winged Outlaw which said pretty much the same thing, but with a decidedly more frustrated tone, but it was deleted by mods because he stepped over the line a bit, but i wish i could put it at least partly back. He and I don't exactly see eye to eye most times, so that's saying a lot.

Paty, let it go already. it's over, you got what you wanted. every time you post, i just throw my hands up and walk away, becuase i just don't want to bother with another ridiculous conspiracy theory rant. you're being a bully and insulting to anyone who liked Morrison's run. i didn't like all of his run, but i liked a lot of it, and i certainly would not consider myself or anyone else who did stupid or lazy becuase i did.

oh and as for Gambit and Rogue - not really sure. the whole blinding thing was an editors plot, though, so it will likely be resolved in Milligans run.
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Post by Paty »

:mags
Actually, I liked Chucks writing. He is a good writer and I have said so many times. His stories are complete and well thought out. I may not agree with everything he did or proposed to do... but then, in spite of what some people think, I don't agree with everything Claremont does either. I only like the way he writes. there have been things over the years that I have said "What the hell is he thinking???" and shook my head when he finally played it all out. But I couldn't argue that he played it out well.

As for what's going on at Marvel... well... there are a lot of angry fans out here in mundane-land...and if they cannot speak their mind, then Marvel will just take it that what they are doing is palatable. I thought forums were for speaking your mind and trying to discuss and understand what is happening with our favorite publication venue.

the inclusion of Spider Man andWolverine in the New Avengers is a ploy to bolster sales by trying to attract Spidey and wolvie readers to the book to bolster the huge dropoff that is expected as diehard avengers fans leave. It is a covert admission that they knew they would lose readership over this and didn't want it to affect sales...until they could assess the damage. the hue and cry on the other boards...especially ones devoted to the Avengers is amazing.. and Marvel is gonna have to do some huge spindoctoring to fix this. I was just wondering how a corporate entity such as Marvel could allow such mayhem done to their very merchandisable characters. Is that a crime? Because either there is underhanded practices going on there or there is total incompetance. It's got to be one or the other. Having worked there, I know the undercurrents and political maneuverings that go on all the time... and it hasn't gotten better over the decades... if anything it has gotten worse. That's all.

when one attempts to understand Marvel one has to take into consideration what we are seeing happen in usually stable books. Important books. Bread and Butter account books...like Avengers and the X books. We are not there at the offices... we can only extrapolate foom what we see going down in the books and with the editorial staff...its comings and it goings and it's public displays... like the little fiasco at SanDiego Con last year.

Yeah, it's over and done with, Jill... so why post what Chuck wanted to do? It isn't gonna happen. I loved what he did do with Juggie and Sammy. that's good writing... very good indeed. And in parting he sent these characters...well, except Sammy, whom I mourn... into a limbo from which they can be extracted in the future. and that is VERY professional...because from a corporate standpoint, they 2WILL be brought back if only to secure the copyrights and trademarks. and that is comic book publishing reality. Maybe he did it of his own accord and maybe he was told you can't kill them but you can send them into a space/time continuum that we can retrieve them from sometime in the future.doesn't matter ...it tied up nicely as a story. And that's all we ask.

LOL... Clareneto...howe about SpiderStan... or ThorLee as opposed to ThorSimonson akaThorfrog? Fimme a break! If we recognize canon and it's importantce to the characters, then there is only one Magneto... the one Claremont did the backstory for, solving all the abberrational behavior rationally and bringing the character from obscurity into popularity. the Morrison abberration was a drop in the bucket...four months... as compared to clost to forty years of character development. that's all. simple. there is no Morrisoneto.

Now I will crawl back into Cockrum Corner where I am allowed to digress on occasion... and speak my mind...which some people actually find interesting.

LOL
Paty
:mags
... oh... and is the "reply notification" broken? I haven't gotten a reply notification thingie o n any of the threads I post to regularly... much less this one...I check the little boxes and zippo... nothing happens... but this glitch has only been happening for a short while so it may be a bug in the system...is anyone else having problems?
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Chuck's farewell.

Post by idsunki »

I was never against your speaking your mind. We've got that whole 1st Amendment thing going on in the US that I, for one, think is pretty groovy. However, as I tried to make clear in my original post, it wasn't the message but the way it was delivered. The points you are trying to get across can be done quite easily without four-letter words that just betray a lack of vocabulary, or personal attacks on people who cannot defend themselves.

So, in essence, all I ask is a little less of:
This is more than Morrison allowed to former writers whose work he completely ignored and stomped all over with hobnail boots...sieg heil!
and readers gleefully followed him ... mainly because they were too lazy to read all the books and understand what had come before in the lives of the characters
Marvel HAD to rescue it's valuable commercial properties this smarmy Brit had *****ed all over
(astericks mine)
Is Chuck smoking the same weed that Morrison is? PTUI! No freakin way!!!
Morrison and Byrne and all the little goosesteppers at Marvel
and a little more of:
and if they cannot speak their mind, then Marvel will just take it that what they are doing is palatable. I thought forums were for speaking your mind and trying to discuss and understand what is happening with our favorite publication venue.
But that's all I can (and will) do, is ask. I would prefer to have civilized discussions on the matter, where the arguments are both logical and emotional (because humans are creatures of both), but things should not dissolve into disrespect and name calling. This (I believe) includes people that aren't on the board as well as those that are.

However, there is nothing stopping you from ignoring my request. You are free to post anything to this message board that does not violate the terms you agreed to when signing up. On the flip side, people have a right to disagree with you (your points or, in this case, the method). It's the check/balance built into the first amendment - the so-called 'Heckler's Veto'.

Sorry for dragging this so far off topic, but I must confess to a similar reaction that Bamfette has when I see a post by Paty. I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread, complete with its own topic.

-idsunki, Thomas Jefferson's biggest fan.
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Chuck's farewell.

Post by Diablo »

If the tempest is gone, I think I'll come back here... :oops:
OK, peace and love, people. We all overreacted here. Can we go back on topic and only speak about Chuck's run now ??
What frightens me is that this great writer is nowhere to be seen lately -except for his Worldwatch.
Does he stay at DC or what ??
I just hope he'll keep writing comic books, cause he's talented.
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Chuck's farewell.

Post by Paty »

:mags
Absolutely, diablo. I haven't heard what Chuck is doing over at DC...has anyone? dave and I read a number of DC books...mostly in the batman and Hawkman titles...but Dave actually reads more DC than I do. I mostly like Hawkman... and I did follow Loeb and Lee's Batman/Catwoman saga which was wonderful.
does anyone know what chuck IS doing over there?

As most people here at Nightscrawlers can verify, my vocabulary is quite comprehensive. I learned the use of four letter words AT Marvel..I also learned to tell it as it is... something a lot of people are uncomfortable with...but I find liberating if nothing else. I have a deductive mind...I observe...I gather information from various sources... and I extrapolate from there. And I post my conclusions based on knowledge of the medium and the industry.
Having worked at Marvel for years... loving the company and all it's promise and having observed what is happening there now makes me mad. I show considerable restraint in my language considering just how angry I am...and the language I learned to use to survive Marvel itself. and the nitty gritty still is...if it looks like a goose and it honks like a goose...it ain't a duck! If Marvel doesn't want to be accused of anti semitism, let them stop trying to destroy their premiere Jewish character... a pogrom that has gone on for over a decade and which has been documented as having been aimed at this one character. and why him? You tell me. I am not even Jewish... and I can see it. And if I see something I will say it and get it out in the open to be talked about and discussed by others. Nothing's so dangerous it cannot be talked about.

Paty
:mags
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Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Chuck's farewell.

Post by Paty »

:mags
Oh, by the way, Jill... LOVE the header art. How come Wanda? Not that I am complaining... I always loved the John Buscema costume... it made the most sense of all the costumes she has been put in over the years...Wanda was always my alter ego... which, considering I have the HOTS for Mags leads us down dangerous paths....LOL...

Paty
:mags
... whoops... wait! i get it! Nocurne is supposed to be the offspring between Wanda and Kurt...right? Hmmmm....interesting combo there... since Nighty is Dave's alter Ego...LOL...
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
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Chuck's farewell.

Post by Diablo »

Chuck is currently writing Actions comics.
I find kinda cool he's writing one of the oldest titles still released. I recently managed to get his entire run -YES ! :)
I hope he'll stay. I heard about a broken arm, which made his self-producted Worlwatch late -difficult to type with just one hand I guess. :( Perhap's it's because of that his name isn't on future issues.
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