The Lightning Rod: Austen Interview Gen. Discussion

Crawler · Post by **Crawler** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:35 am

Just to keep discussion of this from boiling over into other threads, I'm setting this up here.

A link to the interview:
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/sho ... adid=28899

Keep it civil and follow our rules.

KurtnMeggan · Post by **KurtnMeggan** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:52 am

I think Chuck always gives terrible interviews, personally. This one is yet another one.

It's not an attack against him, but he seems incapable of doing anything with his detractors but further alienating them by insulting them or their arguments against him.

I'm not a big fan of Chuck's work on X-Men, but I do understand that personal attacks are unwarranted. I'm glad he's off to other projects, but I'd never wish him bodily or emotional harm.

Still, he has the uncanny ability to stir up controversy with every interview. I'm not fond of his troll theory, as I think it's become an easy out now for him. Sometimes people do have constructive arguments against a writer's work (I should know!) and it is not productive to dismiss seemingly everything with the accusation of troll-ery.

And does the word "mature" make anyone else think of their grandmother, or is that just me?

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:20 pm

>.< but that's not what he's doing, he asserts that in this interview, even, and i never even understood where people were getting this attitude that he thought everyone with a negative opinion was a 'troll' in the first place. there is a difference between a 'troll' and just someone who doesn't like his work. the only ones he calls trolls, the ones he talks about are the irrational ones who threaten bodily harm on him, lie about him, or otherwise act irrationally. or just generally act in a completely thoughtless and rude manner, which DOESN'T include merely saying 'i don't like this'. it's not that they say they don't like it, it's the WAY they express it. not just someone who says they don't like it.

and he keeps bringing it up[ because he keeps being ASKED ABOUIT IT. if the interviewers would not ask about it, he wouldn't say anything.... but the interviewers know what will get them hits...

and as for his attitude towards them and 'further alienating them'. they've already proven that no matter what he does, they are going to hate him. so he figures he may as well say his side.

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:06 pm

Originally posted by KurtnMeggan
I think Chuck always gives terrible interviews, personally. This one is yet another one.

I think the word you meant to use was "hilarious".

Crawler · Post by **Crawler** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:14 pm

I think there's a little credence to the troll theory because, well, the numbers don't lie (though these are estimated from memory).

When Casey was fired, he'd lost around 30,000 copies in sales a month. Out of roughly 95-100,000.

Within about 5 or 6 issues, Chuck had gained those back and, for a while, was selling around 5-10,000 more copies than "normal."

So, if the detractors really are the majority, why do the sales not reflect that?

Is it really 7 people with multiple screen names? Clearly not. But go around to a few sites and you WILL find that some of the ringleaders stir up trouble at several sites.

Sometimes even posting the EXACT. SAME. WORDS. on multiple sites.

I can see why some of his past interviews pissed some people off. But, really, people need to get the fuck over themselves. When people talk about faceless trolls and you bitch that they're slighting you, then YOU are the idiot labeling yourself a troll.

But I see that the first big scandal about this particular interview was that Eric apologized.

Well, you know what? It's HIS website. He's allowed to speak for the whole place AND its staff.

And Chuck's presence is going to attract many more people than Anthony L's. You can't argue with that one.

Plus creator presence lends credit to your website and sometimes gives you the inside track on news about them. That's beneficial to your site as well.

Moderators who attack the owner and jump at every chance they've got to attack a creator is NOT beneficial.

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:03 pm

What gets me is that these are comic books. Works of fiction. Some people act as if these are living breathing beings that actually do run around in spandex saving the world. For me, I may not like all of Chuck's work, but I respect the guy and I don't get all hissy because characters are not being written the way I want them to be written.

Has anyone noticed those that hate Chuck love Morrison to the same degree? Maybe not all readers but it seems by the past posts of ComiXFan I've read this does seem the case. I, myself, enjoyed Morrison's run until Planet X but I do see the arc in a different light now thanks to the return of Mags. But I didn't post in a offensive manner. Never once banned or warned anywhere. Except at EZBoard as of late I have been banned in their Public Showcase. :/ This is a whole different story. Not because I said anything wrong...anyway...

"Just because someone is mean, obnoxious and insistent, doesn't mean they're right. Put enough of these people in one room, all the nice folks will leave, and eventually they'll even wear on each other. Is that what you want? An ultimately empty room?" -- Chuck Austen

Or they kill one another and leave blood on the walls and a fraternity size party mess around the room for someone else to cleanup! And that isn't very nice is it?

kurtlover · Post by **kurtlover** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:21 pm

*claps* Go Chuck, that was a good interview!
I think he coped with the troll attacks on a very graceful way, with patience and humor, that's admirable.

Kurtnmeggan: nope, "senior" makes me think on my grandmother

Ken: yes, ive noticed, in fact my exboyfriend is an example of that, he worships Morrison and hates Chuck to death.

Garble · Post by **Garble** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:42 pm

It definitely seemed to me that Grant got a lot more slack than Chuck.

I mean, it seemed like the same people that bitched about Sammy being lame and worthless thought Beak was just the greatest character ever.

And while Chuck got ripped apart for giving healing powers to Warren, no one seemed to mind when Grant turned Hank into this big, clumsy cat-guy.

It just seemed to me like a lot of people were predisposed to love Grant and hate Chuck.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:52 pm

Predisposed nothing, Austen came onto the site with a huge welcome, so its not like anyone was hoping for him to fail. Instead, he started out strong, only to write some of the worst stories some of us have ever read.

Ultimately, here's the problem. Chuck is holding the actions of one psychotic fan against all of us, and left in an enormous hissy fit. Never mind he got bent out of shape in the light of well-written, constructive criticism. Claremont and the DePhillips duo hear this all the time, and yet they take it with a grain of salt, usually respond with the upmost pleasantry, and that's the end of it. Chuck chose to insult people. Based on this interview I've come to the conclusion that he didn't want open discussion. He wanted people to only talk about how great his book was, and nothing else. Which in my opinion, is bullshit. People have the right to express whether or not they're satisfied with the story they paid for. And the vast, VAST majority of ComiX-Fan posters do so with eloquence, with very careful choice of words. And why is this? Because ComiX-Fan is far more heavily moderated than even this site can claim to be. Objectionable and hateful posts are either edited or deleted within hours, if not minutes after they show up, and warnings/bannings are handed out. And even in spite of all that, I didn't begrudge Chuck that much for leaving, as the PM he got was really fucked up and it shouldn't have been said. But that was one person, using a form of communication that can't be realistically moderated any more than if he'd been sent an email.

So what does Chuck do? He goes and blames the entire FUCKING site for what happened. Called us all a bunch of damn trolls. It was offensive and uncalled for, even as I hear that Eric and Chuck worked things out behind the scenes. He didn't have to pull that shit, it was hateful and only bred anger towards him.

Up until this interview, I'd pretty much gotten past all that crap though. I just didn't care about what Chuck was doing. I had just picked up X-Men again, and found it at the very least readable, and at some points quite good. In fact, the majority of posters at ComiX-Fan appeared to share this sentiment. That should have been the end of it.

But no. We get this interview where Chuck pulls open all these old wounds. Where he once again accuses all of his detractors as being mindless trolls. Where he actually claims that we could be sued for what we post. And to top it all off... Eric makes it sound like it was our fault for leaving. It wasn't. Some jerk provided the catalyst, but at the end of the day, Chuck just didn't like to hear criticism. None of the other creators at our site have ever left in such a loud and angry manner. Hell, most have never left, and provide some really wonderful discussions with their fans and detractors alike. To assume that what happened to Chuck is indicative of some kind of major flaw in the operation of ComiX-Fan is bogus. Chuck couldn't handle the criticism so he bailed the moment he had "justificatoin".

Eric has later posted that he made the apology basically for the good of the site, which I respect, and he further gained back points as he apologized for not coming to us first. Eric's a cool guy, I don't mind him apologizing for those reasons. But I still stand by the assertion that the ComiX-Fan staff in general was not to blame for what happened.

And as I leave, I just have to say that writing a bunch of plots for shock values and writing your women like whores is not indicative of "mature" writing. Its juvenile at best. Chuck refuses to admit that most of his detractors have decent reasons for not liking the book, and chooses to insult them instead. That's why he's "villified" on ComiX-Fan. And damnit, he deserves it.

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:12 am

Anthony L. is my hero.

Lots of people were mad when Morrison turned Beast into the odd cat thing. Weren't they? I remember people being mad. The reason we have only vague memories of outrage is probably due to Morrison shrugging it off and never speaking of it. WOW! Did you see what he did there? He didn't say anything! He completely ignored them! And now no one even remembers! And then when there was that big stink about Magneto, he did it again! And no one even mentioned that. I think Morrison just might have a winning strategy here.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:02 am

Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
Anthony L. is my hero.

Lots of people were mad when Morrison turned Beast into the odd cat thing. Weren't they? I remember people being mad. The reason we have only vague memories of outrage is probably due to Morrison shrugging it off and never speaking of it. WOW! Did you see what he did there? He didn't say anything! He completely ignored them! And now no one even remembers! And then when there was that big stink about Magneto, he did it again! And no one even mentioned that. I think Morrison just might have a winning strategy here.

Wonderful point. Hell, I want to forget about Austen. I want to forget anything he ever wrote in Uncanny. But hell... I dont think I posted anything about the man for months up until this thing, I just didn't care anymore.

Its almost like he's fanning the damn flames here to hold onto his infamy. There was a really easy answer to the question "Why do you think people dont like your work"? Simple... they just don't, its their opinons and some are more vocal than others.

Instead, he makes up all these ridiculous excuses, like we're trying to be "cool" or we're "jealous of him" or some bs like that.

But whatever. I'm sick of giving the man time of day. I wont buy his books, and in a few months he won't be writing anything I'd want to read anyway.

zati1 · Post by **zati1** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:42 am

Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
Anthony L. is my hero.

no offense but...how is he your "hero?" because most of his posts regarding austen end up as snarky comments towards other posters. something to the effect of "you're ignorant...because you don't agree with me."

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:55 am

Originally posted by zati1
Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
Anthony L. is my hero.
no offense but...how is he your "hero?" because most of his posts regarding austen end up as snarky comments towards other posters. something to the effect of "you're ignorant...because you don't agree with me."

He's my hero because I hate to see people get away with shit because of their position (especially if it is, as far as I can tell, completely unearned) and, quite frankly, having no one say anything contradicting that ridiculous interview would have just killed me.

Yeah, the forum is based on having creators stop by and chat with fans. But consider this: "We have TONS of creators forums here, and he's the only one that reacted in that way"

Robin · Post by **Robin** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:02 am

I think Chuck gave honest to God answers to the questions he was asked. Was he supposed to say it's nice being constantly offended by people on message boards? Personally, while I was pretty disappointed when I first learned about Chuck leaving X-MEN, I now think that was the smartest move for him. His ACTION COMICS seems to be pretty well-received (and deserves to be) and I'm sure his upcoming DC and Humanoids stuff will kick butt, too. Not to mention WORLDWATCH... I can hardly wait to read that. So, good luck Chuck and keep up the good work!

Robin

KurtnMeggan · Post by **KurtnMeggan** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:06 pm

Bamfette, I agree to a point that Chuck does constantly get baited in his interviews about "the trolls," but the interviewer seemed to avoid the term intentionally.

And oh yes, many were pissed about the Disney-fying of Beast! I hate it still and want him back to being Wolverine-looking again. Hopefully, Whedon is already treading that path though:)

Crawler · Post by **Crawler** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:30 pm

I'm with Robin and KurtnMeggan here...

You spout off on how he supposedly wants only the good things about his work to be talked about and then turn around and bitch about how, when he's asked, he answers honestly about his online experience. Basically, you're saying that you should get to bitch and he shouldn't, even when asked.

Then you say that Morrison had it right by staying silent, yet villify Chuck for leaving the internet.

You're saying that he's "holding the actions of one psychotic fan against all of us" and then flip when he says that the assholes are a minority.

And yeah, he left in a hissy fit. He's said that he sometimes regrets how he handled that. But then there was a NINE MONTH HISSY FIT from the fans. Which they DO NOT regret.

There IS a double standard going on. You can make excuses for is all you want, but the simple fact is that there IS a double standard.

And don't give me bullshit about how he should "be professional." So should moderators and administrators. You can doubt his legal expertise all you want, but the simple fact is that he's right that the internet is basically instant publishing. Looking the other way or adding to lies and slander may not be illegal but it certainly qualifies as irresponsible. Admins and Mods may not get paid to do what they do (Eric does, though, I believe) but they still has a position of authority and with that authority comes responsibility.

And Chuck didn't open the old wounds. ERIC DID. That's what people do in interviews. Sure, Chuck could have politely declined, saying something like "Oh, you know I'm not going to talk about that." but people STILL would have flipped.

Basically, the "We're allowed to be babies and assholes! We're only fans!" argument is without merit and is, quite frankly, making everyone look bad.

Hold yourself to a higher standard, people. You can not like his work all you like...fuck, I didn't like a good chunk of it...but you guys are flipping over this interview simply because you want to flip.

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:47 pm

I still can't undestand the hate...

I think I never will !

And Chuck has the right to express himself.

I will miss his X-stories.
I'll try to follow him at DC and co.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:51 pm

Originally posted by Crawler
I'm with Robin and KurtnMeggan here...

You spout off on how he supposedly wants only the good things about his work to be talked about and then turn around and bitch about how, when he's asked, he answers honestly about his online experience. Basically, you're saying that you should get to bitch and he shouldn't, even when asked.

No I'm not. I'm saying that he's not saying things as they really happened. Once again, every time someone said something out of line in the forums, they were chastized. He's making it seem like ComiX-Fan is a no-mans land full of trolls who just talk shit about everybody who comes there. That is simply not true. He's not "honestly" answering anything, he's embellishing things to make himself look better. I won't go so far as to call him a liar, but what he's talking about certainly isn't an honest depiction of what happened.

Then you say that Morrison had it right by staying silent, yet villify Chuck for leaving the internet.

I don't really care that he left. I've never villified Chuck for leaving the internet, I'm just saying that he's not being honest with the reasons why he did, and the way he's doing it is unfairly hurting the site.

You're saying that he's "holding the actions of one psychotic fan against all of us" and then flip when he says that the assholes are a minority.

The psychos are in the minority, but this sentence just claimed that everyone who doesn't like Chuck Austen's work is an asshole, which is pretty damned insulting if you ask me. I've never talked to anyone, save for a few people online, that has liked Austen's work. You give me numbers about how he keeps getting high sales, but he's writing Uncanny X-Men during a time when superhero movies are the hottest thing out there. Of course he's going to have high sales, that doesn't mean that the product is any good. Its just popular despite the reader. If he manages to have the same success with his creator-owned stuff that's due to come out, I'll rethink this stance I have. But right now, I'm thinking that most readers over the age of say, 14, aren't very satisfied with what they're buying, and they're buying it out of habit. I agree that they should just stop buying the damn book, but its terribly idealistic to think that they actually will, unfortunately enough.

And yeah, he left in a hissy fit. He's said that he sometimes regrets how he handled that. But then there was a NINE MONTH HISSY FIT from the fans. Which they DO NOT regret.

"Hissy Fit" nothing. Once again, if someone made a comment that was out of line, it was done away with. However, those that continued buying the books kept having bad things to say about them because they didn't like the book. They weren't trying to act cool, they weren't jealous, they were dissatisfied. And since they bought the book, if they didn't like it, they have every right to say so. Am I supposed to regret thinking that the Draco was bad? No, and I won't. That was the storyline that was supposed to shut us all up and show us what a great writer Chuck could be. In reality, it had the exact opposite effect, and I immediately dropped it. I don't feel guilty for that, and I doubt I ever will.

There IS a double standard going on. You can make excuses for is all you want, but the simple fact is that there IS a double standard.

As long as Austen keep exaggerating what happened and continues to act like ComiX-Fan is a troll den, I refuse to see this double standard. All I see is a creator shaming a website to excuse the fact that he couldn't take even the most constructive criticism.

And don't give me bullshit about how he should "be professional." So should moderators and administrators.

We were. How many times must I say how heavily moderated the site is, and how careful every member of staff is not to allow creator bashing to fly? Sure, many of our moderators do not like Chuck Austen's work. But they're allowed to express their dissatifaction as well. I'm not going to say that everyone was professional all the time, but you act like we all callously make these venomous posts without any provocation. I can't possibly think of a site that has better, more professional moderators than ComiX-Fan. And part of that professionality is not making excuses for a creator who overreacted to what really happened. Its not the fault of ComiX-Fan that he left.

You can doubt his legal expertise all you want, but the simple fact is that he's right that the internet is basically instant publishing. Looking the other way or adding to lies and slander may not be illegal but it certainly qualifies as irresponsible. Admins and Mods may not get paid to do what they do (Eric does, though, I believe) but they still has a position of authority and with that authority comes responsibility.

So would you held responsible if someone were to threaten users through your U2Us? Would yahoo be sued if someone were found to be sending illegal pornography or terrorist information through their email system? Of course not. You have to sign a terms of agreement before you can use these features, and if you violate them, you get warned/banned. The public posts that were out of line were taken care of almost immediately. The private posts, however, cannot be moderated. They can be reported, but honestly until we have prcognition or something we can't be certain who posts what, and unfortunately the only way to catch someone posting something out of line through that method is to have them do it, and get reported on it.

Its insulting for Chuck Austen to say that we need to police ourselves better because we do a better job than most sites would ever bother to do. I can't see how we could possibly be any better, to be honest. You can't swear, you can't make false allegations, you can't post to illicit or spoiler sites, and above all you can't creator bash. We take the upmost responsibility in making sure things stay in line. From this, I conclude that Chuck doesn't really give a damn about how well a site is policed. He just wants every non-praising post deleted.

And Chuck didn't open the old wounds. ERIC DID. That's what people do in interviews. Sure, Chuck could have politely declined, saying something like "Oh, you know I'm not going to talk about that." but people STILL would have flipped.

Don't pretend that's true. Had he said that, then many of the same moderators who are so livid over this now would have been giving Chuck props for at least showing some dignity. I've never known posters such as Anthony L, Zisa, Joel Phillips, or especially not Eric to show bias against any creator, even if they haven't liked some of his work. Personally, if he had said anything like that I probably wouldn't have posted at all, and went about not caring. Eris is allowed to ask whatever he wants in an interview, and you can't possibly tell me that he wasn't, in fact, being very soft on the questions he could have asked him. It was Chuck who made the decision to let things turn ugly.

Basically, the "We're allowed to be babies and assholes! We're only fans!" argument is without merit and is, quite frankly, making everyone look bad.

Are you even reading what I'm saying? I'm saying that fans have a right to their opinions if they display them in a respectable manner, which has always been the policy at ComiX-Fan. I'm not pissed because I feel "entitiled" to it or anything like that. I'm pissed because Austen is LYING about what really happened, and acting like we're to blame. In reality, neither party is truly blameless, but I really believe that Chuck was the one who really made it escalate into the venom that we know now. Not the actions of a few fans, and CERTAINLY not the actions of our moderators.

Hold yourself to a higher standard, people. You can not like his work all you like...fuck, I didn't like a good chunk of it...but you guys are flipping over this interview simply because you want to flip.

Believe me, I'm much happier when I don't feel like ripping a comic book in half. I'm much happier when I actually like what I'm buying. I'm much happier when I can buy an issue of X-Men feeling anticipation rather than dread.

Namely, I'm happier when I'm not thinking about the man. But crap like this is making that very difficult, and I believe that there were plenty of things that just had to be said here.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:01 pm

'WE'?!? You're not a mod!! you're a reviewer, and you didn't become THAT until WELL after Chuck left X-Fan. I WAS a mod at that time. I WAS there. and yes, not all the mods were doing this, but some of them were more interested in fanning the flames than quenching them, and you can't tell me differently because i saw it with my own two eyes. the only way i could usually get anything done with a troll, like Aachne in that thread there who called him a pedophile, was to go to Eric directly, becuase otherwise it was considered perfectly ok to ignore it. there were mods running around with anti-Chuck statements in their sigs, and posting bile about him all over the place. some didn't post their views publicly, but they certainly were ok with letting things go because of who he was. and i know too many people who have left X-Fan because of the trollish atmosphere there to accept that it's changed significantly.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:29 pm

Originally posted by Bamfette
'WE'?!? You're not a mod!! you're a reviewer, and you didn't become THAT until WELL after Chuck left X-Fan. I WAS a mod at that time. I WAS there. and yes, not all the mods were doing this, but some of them were more interested in fanning the flames than quenching them, and you can't tell me differently because i saw it with my own two eyes. the only way i could usually get anything done with a troll, like Aachne in that thread there who called him a pedophile, was to go to Eric directly, becuase otherwise it was considered perfectly ok to ignore it. there were mods running around with anti-Chuck statements in their sigs, and posting bile about him all over the place. some didn't post their views publicly, but they certainly were ok with letting things go because of who he was.

I'm sorry Jill but I just don't buy it. The only comments that don't get erased are the things that you'd have to be really REALLY sensitive about to get mad at, and I don't mind the administrators for not worrying about that. I'd honestly like to see what exactly the post said, because it sounds to me like once again exaggerations are being made here.

I've already said that neither side was innocent, but this interview was a disgraceful way for Chuck to try and make himself look better than us. The reason a lot of our moderators don't like him is because his behavior was so similar to the very trolls he condemned. A good writer, especially in such a high-profile position, should be able to handle both the good and the bad. The good posts you're thankful for, the negative ones you get over, and the ones that are truly out of line, you ignore. Instead, he slings insults even when the criticism is justified, and from his very demeanor gives off the impression that he doesn't respect his own fans.

I'm sick of this notion that what happened there was all our fault, because it wasn't. And I use the plural in the sense of all the posters at ComiX-Fan, not the moderators. Forgive me if I believe that a professional writer DOES need to act professionally, if he wants to earn my respect, or the respect of anyone else.

Seriously, if ComiX-Fan was so bad, why is it that only Chuck has departed in such a public and disgraceful manner? Why is it that every other creator that posts there regularly gets respect and admiration from the fans, but so few like Chuck Austen? Simply put, they hold themselves with a level of professionalism, and downright friendliness that makes any unwarranted retractor look foolish and petty. But with the way Austen acted, they ALMOST looked justified.

And I think its nice that our moderators had enough respect for themselves to realize that after a while, Chcuk didn't really deserve any special treatment, what with the way he was acting. Much in the way I don't understand why paty gets away with much of what she says here, despite the equally slanderous and uncalled for venom in her posts.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:20 pm

it wasn't to try an make himself look better than anyone. he's just trying to explain himself, and wether you like it or not, he put up with a ton of bullshit at X-Fan. maybe not all the comments were calling him a pedophile (and you really want me to dig up a post made a year ago? plus this particular one was deleted, becuase i went to Eric and he did it himself. it's where she got her warning points. so obviously it's not SITE policy, which was kinda my point, but the little mod clique is a different matter.) but even so, it made for an extremely unplesant atmosphere when it was all combined. and he owed the site nothing, his forum didn't sell any more books, he was doing it for free, he didn't HAVE to put up with that.

and 'disgraceful' my ass. he made a post in his question thread, it's one he says he regrets, but it was ONE POST. and he left. LOTS of other creators have left. i can't say what their reasons are, specifically, becuase, no, they did not post saying they were doing so. but look how many forums there are where the creator it's dedicated to hasn't posted in a year or more. they aren't all happy there.

and why the fans don't like him has little do with him leaving or how he left, in this example especially as you're coming across as that he created the atmosphere that made him leave himself. when he did not. he was perfectly friendly and cordial in his forum right up until he left, and they still hated him then. that started LOOOOONG before he left.

and we only let Paty say what she says in her own forum. but here, as with there, she and Dave are guests of honor. yes, they SHOULD get special treatment. no one is going to go to X-Fan to chat with Anthony L. he is not a draw, and his hissy fit is painting him as a hypocrite. he's all like 'how DARE Chuck say anything bad, he OWES us' (seriously) he goes on about how Chuck getting mad was unprofessional, but he's reacting 5 times as strongly to an APOLOGY? they WILL go there to talk to creators, though. so you damn well better make it inviting for them.

Tatu · Post by **Tatu** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:24 am

Originally posted by Winged Outlaw
Namely, I'm happier when I'm not thinking about the man. But crap like this is making that very difficult, and I believe that there were plenty of things that just had to be said here.

So don't think about him, its not hard. you're acting like you're being forced to do something when really all you're doing is looking for something to piss and moan about.

You dont like Chuck? Don't pay attention to him.

You don't like his writing? Don't read it, don't buy it, don't pay any attention to it.

No one is forcing you to click links about him, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read his work. No one is forcing you to do anything.

"But crap like this is making that very difficult.."

Give me a break.

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:00 am

Sorry, but when this article was written I was insulted, and when I'm insulted I usually write out why because he helps cool me off. I'm not saying I was screaming and throwing shit or something, but the thought "well now THAT was certainly fucked up" crossed my mind a few times.

Why don't we all clear our heads and look at what happened, without any bias towards either side. If we examine it objectively, I think its pretty clear that what happened back then was a failure on the part of both parties. ComiX-Fan, despite having what I feel to be one of the greatest moderating staffs on the internet today, could have indeed handled things better. Chuck Austen, for whatever good can be said about him, could have handled himself with better composure than he did. I believe that both sides were at least partially at fault, though I won't even begin to comment on who deserves more of the blame.

HOWEVER. The anger being born out of this particular interview is Chuck's fault alone. He had the perfect opportunity to come across as the bigger man and make anyone who ever posted something out of line look completely and utterly foolish. And despite what some of you guys think, if our staff has the professionalism to admit that some of his future plans for the X-Men sounded interesting, then they'd also have the professionalism to shoot down anyone who tried to give him shit out of spite as well. But what does he do? He chooses to insult everyone who doesn't like his work, regardless of their reason or how they compose themselves, by claiming that we're wannabes, jealous, ignorant, or worse. As someone who's been very careful on the site to express myself properly, even going so far as to spend time going over what I just wrote and editing things out that weren't called for, I do find that sentiment to be insulting and utterly uncalled for. Especially in light of the fact that his DC work has been getting rather rave posts and that his recent X-Men issues have received probably the most positive fan reaction on the site since Hope. Hell, even I posted that I was enjoying it for the most part.

Basically, any shortcomings that ComiX-Fan may have had during the time of Chuck's departure have been fixed. Its old news now, and its high time we all move on. Chuck's responses in this interview were silly and mean spirited, and he knew damn well that they'd piss people off. Now how is that NOT acting like a troll?

And slightly off topic... I hate lightning... delayed this (obviously brilliant

) post by over an hour...

Singe · Post by **Singe** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:08 am

I also don't really think it's fair to try to say that the guy was trying to make himself look good. The interviewer asked, and obviously he's not going to say "Yes, my detractors are absolutely right," especially if he's trying to keep his head afloat and stay employed. While it might have been somewhat tactful to have tried to give some credit to the other side, I completely understand why he didn't. He's got to make persuade people that he's good and his decisions are good or he doesn't stay employed. Makes sense to me.

As for myself, I thought his run was so-so but really didn't worry about it. Peoples' vehemence against the guy is a pretty strange sad thing. And while I don't quite understand why Austen and Morrison are mutually exclusive, I agree with Garble: one must wonder why Morrison didn't get his ass bitten off in quite the way Austen has. In my mind, some of the things he did were a lot more beastly than anything Austen did.

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:29 am

Originally posted by Singe
one must wonder why Morrison didn't get his ass bitten off in quite the way Austen has. In my mind, some of the things he did were a lot more beastly than anything Austen did.

He doesn't have an X-Fan forum. Or any forum, as far as I know. Shrieking about his run on X-Men is like beating your head against a brick wall. People do it anyway, sure, but no one pays much attention because Morrison doesn't acknowledge it. Internet talk "doesn't matter" only if it isn't acknowledged.