Superman General Discussion

[Crawler]

Action Comics 814:

Best damned Superman comic I've ever read.

Or course, I can't remember the last one I read and am not sure there even WAS one before...but that's beside the point.

Action Comics #814 is really, really good.

I'd never read Superman before because he seemed inaccessable. I vaguely know his history and some supporting characters. I own the Death of Superman issue but have never read it. Never really cared.

Well, I looked at the previews for this issue of Action Comics (Chuck Austen's first issue on the book, BTW) and decided to give it a shot.

It's really strange for me to be enjoying and understanding a Superman book.

Would have a few questions if I was completely in the DC dark, but I found the book to be accessable.

Very good jumping on point.

WTG, Chuck.

[Bamfette]

Originally posted by Crawler

It's really strange for me to be enjoying and understanding a Superman book.

I know. I felt weird after reading it, becuase i have always found Superman to be boring, and i found this book to be highly entertaining. I was laughing out loud at parts, others were very human.

I hear there is some complaining about his 'change in voice' or whatever. but pfffft. that old 'voice' is what kept me from reading these books in the past, and led me to poke fun at the character. he was boring as hell. I'll take the 'new' version.

[Remy_LeBeau]

i was looking for the old action comics thread earlier and couldn't find it. so, that lead me to thinking that there wasn't one. but now there is, so it's time for me to gush over it.

I was in the same boat as Jill. I've read a few superman comics before and I hated them. clark/supes got on my nerves. i've never known anybody who acted like him.

Now I tried out chuck's issue and this was easily the best read of the week for me. the change in voice is what will keep me coming back. And I already see people complaining about this. Oh well, one person's loss is another person's gain. I hope Superman stays this way, if he does then I'll be reading this for a long time to come.

[Jeremys Iron]

Okay right off the bat I should say that I've read little to no Superman in my time reading comics but I thought #814 was an excellent issue. Lovely art, nice story that works well with the Godfall arc that just ended (Clarks seems to have been gone for a good little while, a lot can change, a paper has to keep running even without one of it's star reporters), good dialogue and some very interesting, human moments. The only thing I didn't like was how casual Superman was with Darkseid and about Doomsday. Now again I don't know a lot about these characters but I was under the impression that Darkseid was one of Superman's toughest foes and that Doomsday is the cat who killed Supes back in the good old 90s. Given that, I would have assumed he would have taken that situation a bit more seriously and had a bit more difficulty dealing with it (so far). As is it seems all just a little too easy for him and he is taking it all a little too non-chalantly. Of course this could just be Chuck setting Kal El up for a fall on both his professional fronts. In which case this will all just be good setup. Clark is too secure in his position at the Daily Planet but he is even more secure in his position as Superman. We already know he's going to take a dive in his position at the Planet, if there is one that is going to mirror that in his life as Superman than the drop could be spectacular. And once his hit rock bottom we will truly find out if he is really a Super man. Or maybe I'm completely off base I don't know. :crazed Regardless, I think this is Superman title I'm going to stick with for a while.

[LoneWolf21]

Got to read next week's issue early, lots of action, and I thought he did a great job with guest stars Kon, Cassie, and Bart.

[Bamfette]

for 815, i really liked how Chuck jumped ahead a week or so (and that DC let him, Marvel never did, mid arc.) allowing the reader to figure out what happened in between... because it would have been pretty plodding and tedious to just go through all that, and not like it is hard to figure out.

and Jeremy, i think you will be please with how the story progresses... Supes is in a fight for his life. i saw this splash for 817 after the shit hits the fan, and it is just SO awesome...

[LoneWolf21]

Sounds cool! I think the art has been a great match with these more action oriented stories that Chuck's been writing, I mean that splash page in #815 where Gog makes his big on-panel appearence? Great stuff.

[Robin]

Hi!
I just registered here and wanted to say hello
I've been lurking here for some time but never posted, partly because of my natural reluctance towards message boards, and partly because English isn't my first language. But now I wanted to butt in and say how much I enjoyed Chuck Austen's first issue of Action Comics. I started reading comics quite recently (I'm a manga/anime guy mostly), starting with DC's Teen Titans and Y The Last Man, and even more recently got into the complex but fascinating world of the X-Men. At first it was a bit frustrating because there are so many series and they keep changing names LOL, and I thought I had to follow them all . But now I understand a bit more how it works and I settled on just a couple of titles. Chuck Austen's and Chris Claremont's stories have especially been to my liking, so when I learned Chuck would be penning Action Comics too I tried the first issue. Needless to say, I absolutely loved it! I read a couple of Superman comics when I was a kid and I never expected the Man of Steel to be so much fun. And the art rocked, too.

Perhaps it's strange to post my first message on a Nightcrawler board in a thread about Superman, but what can I say, I'm a strange guy LOL (tho worry not... I LOVE Herr Wagner, too)

Well, that's it for this time. This wasn't anywhere near as painful as I thought

See ya,
Robin

[xpawn]

Here's the latest Chuck Austen interview where he talked about Action Comics and JLA:
http://www.newsarama.com/pages/DC/Chuck_Austen.htm

[Bamfette]

cool interview, Ben.

and.... In the May 17th issue of TIME, there will be an article 'The Trouble With Superman' It is up on their website now:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 95,00.html

pretty interesting read. and i think it's GREAT that comics are getting the kind of publicity that TIME can give. that they are being seriously discussed in a 2 page article in a publication as well respected as TIME is nothing short of amazing to me.

... though, i suppose DC and TIME are all part of one big mega-company, huh? but STILL!!! :p

oh, and renamed the thread to 'Superman General Discussion' figured that this forum wasn't high traffic enough to support a thread for Rucka and Azzarello's titles, as well. so, anyone read Rucka and Azzarello's debuts? what did you think? and if you read all three which was your favourite?

[The Drastic Spastic]

I'm sure I read that same article with only minor modifications a couple years ago in Wizard. I don't follow DC very closely, but I'm betting they try to revamp Superman about as often as the X-Men get reloaded.

Will it work this time? Probably not. Even if the books ARE better, no one cares. Except the old fans of the character, and any fans the new creators manage to bring over. The best DC can hope for with this is that Azzarello's run is as successful as Morrison's was on New X-Men. Which was hugely successful... for a comic book. And now it's over. And the X-Men are back to how they were. And in five years, nothing will have changed for Superman either.

Man, am I ever grouchy tonight.

[Bamfette]

will it work? I don't know the figures on Rucka and Azzarello (who with Jim Lee there, and a pretty solid first issue besides, no doubt whoops these figures hands down. probably well over 100,000) but Action Comics went from 25-30,000 to nearly 70,000. and that's selling out. they'll likely be doing a second printing. and like i said, the Azzarello/Lee title no doubt has much higher numbers. look what Lee's name did for Batman. sales jumped from 40,000 to 160,000 of course many of those readers fell away after the first while, but sales are still much higher than they started out.

Superman's sales were abysmal for such an iconic character. they were selling not much better than Vertigo numbers. if they sell even half of what X-Men sells, DC will be ecstatic. even though there will no doubt be dropoff from the initial sales spike, even if they lose 10-20 thousand from the first few issues, they'll still be selling way better than before. and actually, they don't often try and re-vamp Superman. there was the much hyped 'Death of Superman' but that was about it... they were until recently more interested in maintaining the status quo. he's an icon, so they didn't want to mess with him at all. it made him boring, resulting in low sales.

i know, sales does not equal quality. but if something jumps in sales significantly, that means someone besides the hardcore fans are buying it. people who arent hardcore fans buy something becuase they enjoy it.

[xpawn]

Originally posted by Bamfette
cool interview, Ben.

Thanks, Jill. Chuck's da man!

[The Drastic Spastic]

Originally posted by Bamfette
will it work? I don't know the figures on Rucka and Azzarello (who with Jim Lee there, and a pretty solid first issue besides, no doubt whoops these figures hands down. probably well over 100,000) but Action Comics went from 25-30,000 to nearly 70,000. and that's selling out. they'll likely be doing a second printing.

ACTION COMICS #811 33,920
ACTION COMICS #812 51,466
ACTION COMICS #813 66,038

http://www.icv2.com

It went from 30k to nearly 70k... two months ago. No official numbers for 814 yet, but "nearly 70,000" would suggest it more or less stopped rising with that issue. (Unless these numbers include reprints?) Looks like people jumped on for 812 and 813, can't say yet if that will have much of a permanent effect.

Azzarello's run is only 12 issues. No way to tell if the novelty of an interesting Superman (Superman as Spider-Man, Superman as Batman) will wear off eventually.

[Bamfette]

those numbers include reprints, yes. and my 70,000 number was told to me 2 days after it came out. it's since been re-ordered in most stores that i have heard about. not sure where the current number stands. just above that initial order somewhere. and those are the 'Michael Turner numbers' and the end of the 'Godfall' arc. 815 went up form that, i just heard. not sure how much.

I know ALL the readers from Azzarrello's run wont stick around after he leaves in 12 issues, but Barman is still selling above 80,000 without the creative team that made it jump up from 40,000 in the first place. it may not be 160,000 like the first few issues of that spike, but i think it can still be counted as a big success considering what it was selling before.

[The Drastic Spastic]

It's a Bird = INTENSE



I guess this is the topic for it? It's a story about a guy trying to write a Superman story. Which is all I knew about it going in, and doesn't really do it justice. It's amazing, so much feeling. Highly recommended.

[Gambit~Iceman]

I just read Superman #204, and hey I think it's the best Superman related story I've read since the current series Superman/Batman. Personally I think all the writers Jeph, Chuck, Greg, and Brian are all doing bang up jobs with the character. I haven't been able to get into, or enjoy Superman comics for years. It's nice to be able to again.

[Bamfette]

I have not read It's a Bird... i keep hearing it's excelent. i will have to check it out, i guess...

and yeah, they seem to have hit a home run with all the books with this re-launch. i am SHOCKED that i am actually enjoying Superman...

[Bamfette]

okay, the plot in Action is coming together with 816, and (while Chuck is not spoiling the plot for me in advance, tho he probably would if i asked, i just haven't... he does confirm or deny my little theories) i think it's just... like, wow, how it is all coming together. so subtle, (even tho the whole issue is just one big slug fest) but if you pay attention, it just all fits. if you haven't read the full issue yet, you can even see what i am talking about in the preview pages (tho it is repeated later in the issue to drive the point home): http://milehighcomics.com/firstlook/060 ... 16cvr.html

[spoiler]so you all saw how when Superman knocked the hell out of Gog and broke his helmet, Gog disappeared then re-appeard a moment later, totally healed and with a new helmet? I have seen some people call this a mistake. like Ivan just forgot between panels on the SAME PAGE... (tho they usually blame Chuck forit even tho it is in the art, and if it was a simple mistake, it's not like it would have appeared anywhere in the script...)

anyway. i figured it was definitely intentional, and that the only explanation could be time travel. that Gog is zapping off to another time to heal up, get a new helmet, recharge or replace his weapon, rest, whatever. that's what makes him so formidable. no matter what you do to him, you can't hurt him unless you deliver a swift killing blow, or cut him off from time travel. and Chuck confirmed it, that's EXACTLY what's happening... [/spoiler]

i love subtlety like that. makes it so satisfying when you figure it out before the big reveal. a lot of people complain that you learn nothing about Gog this issue, but they just arent reading between the lines.... especially when paired witht he backup story in 812. or was it 13? eh, whatever, the Gog backup.

and then i just got thinking now, but haven't asked Chuck about it yet, so i could be wrong...[spoiler] Since Gog can time travel, what if Doomsday is only the sub-plot, and Gog was the one that went into the past to orchestrate his escape in the first place? and what if Gog orchestrated the events of next issue (you'll see, I think Chuck mentioned it in his lastinterview, but i have seen the page where it all hits. every bad guy coming at him at once). i mean... :o!!!! [/spoiler]

in short, i am loving this. Gog is a totally formidable villain even tho he came off as generic at first, even tho he has a stupid sounding name. and i am still SHOCKED that i am enjoying it...

*edit - dude! i was right! hah, this is so cool, then. this is gonna be HUGE from what Chuck says. if you can believeit we're still in the 'rising action' portion of the story, no where near the climax.

.... getting excited about Superman. so weird.

was just reading on another forum how DC is more 'restrictive' in what you can do with characters and that now that Chuck is under limitations on what he can do, he will write a better story....

http://www.comicboards.com/jla/view.php ... 0522025347

hehehe... oh, that's rich. whooo... totally backwards... he's got WAAAAAAAY more freedom at DC than he EVER did at Marvel, and THAT is why he's writing better. not the other way around.

[Bamfette]

Originally posted by Diablo


See you in Action Comics. -yeah Bamfette, I bought issue #819 today.

so..... what did you think? 819 wasn't his best Action issue to date, but 820 is a thing of beauty, can't wait to see it all finished. i was a bit worried when i heard about a fillin artist, cus Ivan simply rocks, but the issue is beautful. Chuck let me look thru it with him in SD, and we were both in total awe. especially this one page of like a dream sequene. gorgeous. and [spoiler]Doomsday comes back[/spoiler]

http://milehighcomics.com/firstlook/101 ... 20cvr.html <-- preview of 820

[Darkholme]

I've always enjoyed Carlos D'Anda's stuff...I really wish he'd get more projects. And the Silver Banshee is one of my favoriter third-tier Supes villains. Is Chuck a closet Creeper fan? Just seems like his stories are the only ones that Jack Ryder even pokes his head into anymore...

[Bamfette]

yeah, he is. Chuck actually did not read much DC prior to some earlier fillins. but i think it gave him an advantage. when he was reading copious ammounts of old Supes books all in one giant chunk for research, i think he saw some characters that he thought could be really cool if handled right that had been almost forgotten, or relegated to background scenery. Jimmy Olsen, which grew into Metropolis, Creeper.... i'll ask hi for a better answer tho. i suspect this is a quetion that will produce one of his tremendously long ramblng answers

[Diablo]

I liked issue#819 -the only one I've bought so far.

I was pretty enthusiastic about how the story was told.
I recognize Chuck's style, and his interest for soap -Lana coming right at him with her undying feelings was quite enjoyable. And her words about Loïs, who fell for a superman, and not for a Clark Kent, were just right.

Also, Ivan Reis does a great job.

I'll let you know how I feel about Chuck's work, but I already liked it enough to buy the next issue... and probably the previous ones when I'll go to Paris at the end of the month.

Off-topic : I wonder how Worldwatch is doing. I couldn't get a copy...

[Bamfette]

actually, this title is light on soap, 819 was an anomaly in that respect. it's mostly intended to be straight up larger than life fun and action. it's essentially been one giant fight so far, though a real story and a bit of character stuff (being demoted, Jack Ryder, a little bit of tension with Lois) is interwoven with all the action. infact, Chuck said to me re Lana:

>Just wrote an issue where Lana gets in Clark's face because she thinks Lois
>>> "settled" for Clark, when she was in love with Superman. DC's letting me
>>> toe the line.

>
> so if you just wrote it, it's a ways off yet. good, i like this lull of
> happiness but it will be interesting to see it when it does hit.


It's funny. That story is part of what sold Eddie on me as the series
writer, and in the end, it has nothing to do with the direction I wanted to
take the series. So we considered it would be a popular story, and get a
lot of attention, but in retrospect, would I have done it? Probably not.
I'd probably just keep Superman bashing and funnin'.

And it appears in 819. So two issues away.

the thing some people (not anyone here) seem to miss is that just because Lana says it, does not mean it's actually true in Lois's mind, or Clark's. it's just HER opinion. though it may be justified, it may also not be. Chuck does not have any plans to break up Lois and Clark, just raise a couple questions.

so, i wouldn't really get it for the soap, as there wont be all that much of it, compared to some of his previous stuff.... 820 is the Halloween issue, very fast paced, action oriented, and creepy. so really gets back on that track pretty quickly. back into the Gog story. which, contrary to popular opinion, was never dropped. you just have to think of it like a tv series where a long running plot is introduced in the season premiere, and you get bits and pieces throughout the season within smaller self contained stories, then in the season finalle you get a big explosive resolution. whch is great, because Chuck is really good with standalone, self contained stories, so that's what DC is letting him do, though it advances a larger plot as well, albeit slowly.

DC is allowing him tons of freedom to tell the story any way he wants, structurally, there are no mandates on lengths of story arcs to stick em in trades or anything. and he has a lot of freedom with certain characters, too. not so much Superman, as he's being shared between 5 writers, but Lana, Jack Ryder, Jimmy, Gog, Doomsday.... he can do anything he wants with them, pretty much. when they divvied up characters, those were the ones he got to play with. I think Rucka only really wanted Lois, and some brand new characters, but he may have some others, i dunno, but i know Lois is mostly his. if something big happens with Loist, Rucka has to ok it. just like if he wanted to do somethingwith Jimmy, Chuck would have to ok it. Azz, dunno, but i'd imagine he gets whatever he wants, and it over rides Rucka and Chuck, just because it sells a ton. hasn't affected Chuck yet, though. so whatever he has, it doesn't seem to interfere with anything.

WorldWatch sold out in its first (small) print run and will be re-printed, but this time in color, at the urging of Diamond.

[Bamfette]

not quite the monster reply i was anticipating, but Chuck's been busy, he hit an art snag with WorldWatch, and has been super busy ironing that out. so short reply, but here you go, re Creeper:

I've become a HUGE Creeper fan. I pitched a series to DC that went nowhere.
It began when I was working on Metropolis, and I realized no one had done
anything worthwhile with the character. He's been a blast. But you can
probably see that in the most recent issue.