Dave's perspectives on X-Men

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by SamKarns » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:19 pm

I am shocked. Isn't this the year twenty - O- six! How did things get so bad? I recall Damien Scott coming to Marvel but I don't hear from him much anymore. Texiera I believe is brown or is it Priest? Where are they? Are the people at Team Marvel are aware of this? Could you talk to Quasada about this? THis is troubling.

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Post by Paty » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:45 pm

:magneto
Chris Priest, whom we knew fondly as Jim Owlsley, and no... I have no idea why he changed his name... is black...actually, he's very dark brown...LOL... but racially, he is black. and he is, I believe still hanging in there, taking shit from the whitebreads and now and again tr ing to convince Quesada to let him head up a line aimed directly at the ethnic market! The kids who can't afford game boy, X Box and Playstation. they are the only teen boys reading the comics! The rest are into gaming and really pro active interaction games.

The middle eastern religions do not like strong women very much...never have. Christianity, Judaism and, worst of all, Islam. women are virgins or mothers... or sluts. They have not...throughout history... allowed women any place in government, self identity or positions of strength and power. Women have made more strides in America than anywhere else in the world... and one of the main reasons Bin Laden attacked the US and it's lifestyles was because he was scared shitless that we would export the idea to the middle east that women were at the very least equal to men... and possibly even superior in more ways than popping out babies every nine months. He couldn't stand that cuz his religion gives no other role to a woman and he doesn't want western women queering his and his fellaheen's nice lifestyle. I mean, even the lowliest felaheen can look down on women! But 2000 was the "Year of the Woman" when militant and powerful women of the western cultures took their message to countries where women are regarded as less than slaves... and the women there were listening. With the advent of global intercommunication, it wasn't quite as easy to keep the culture purely male and anachronistically hostile to females wanting equality. Add to that the higher ups in the Arab world sending some of their women here for schooling, and you have a chrisis of monumental proportions to the insecure arab male... Hence the Jihad agains the Satanic Western Cultures. It wasn't money or anything else... it was that he was scared shitless that the women of his country would want equality they see western females enjoying...and using to become strong and independant of male domination.
Stupid, isn't it? But true. the middle eastern religions are anti female to the Nth degree.Some, like Christianity by plan...no one even bothers to deny that the early church fathers wrote females OUT of positions of power or priesthood...it is too well documented. Sometimes, like in many sects of islam, it is merely anachronistic societial rules. Strict Jewish tradition separates males and females... especially in worship... but acknowledges that the female determines the bloodline, even if the male gives his name to it. If your mother was Jewish, YOU are Jewish... and this has a very practical root... since the Jews were, for a lot of their history, a conquered race, you never knew who the father might be...what with soldiers and their rapish proclivities... but you came out of your mother's body... so there was no doubt who the mother was... so if your mother was Jewish, YOU were Jewish. Not quite as potent a rule today ... what with in vitro fertilization and surrogate parenthood... but still valid in most of the world...

So, yes, the christian whitebread boy's club is adamant in their almost wholesale stripping the female of power, pride, and clothes. Females are, any more, little more than sexual objects... slutty like Emma who is the bitch of the western world... or jus whining and puling like the Wasp, who thinks of little but her wardrobe, or pawns, like Wanda...or brainless, scared tootsies, like Rachel of all people! ... or nuts, like Lorna Dane. Take your pick.

Is it any wonder that women are giving up reading the books in droves? There is nothing in them to interest intelligent females!!! There are few if any women in comics to be role models any more. Storm, for example, a strong black woman, is now reduced to little more than providing an heir for T'challa's enpire! Oh, Bravo!!! pop 'im out, lady... it's what you were made for, isn't it?

women want to write and draw within the medium... and how many are actually willing to fuck and suck to get the assignments or put up with the bullshit once they do get a foot in the door??? Not many! that's why they come and go so fast there. Where, for example, is Jo Duffy??... an excellent writer!! Where is Stephanie Moore???... a talented and excellent editor!!! Where is Christina Z?... another talented writer who helped to cement the success of Withchblade then disappeared from the scene ... with the result that that book has become little more than nekkid lady cop for pud pullers.

Don't get me started on sexual discrimination in this industry... been there...observed same... walked away from it, myself... and talked to people on the scene who tell me it hasn't gotten better... it has gotten WORSE!!! ...than when I was at Marvel. and, believe me, it was bad enough THEN under shithead....that's Shooter to you guy- types... us girls called him shithead.

So now we hear that Axel Alonzo has been named head of X editorial...and it is all over, people. Alonzo's record is one of change, change and more change. He likes killing characters... he's one of the boy's club so we are gonna see more powerless females, for sure and less ethnic diversity... even though he is not particularly whitebread himself. But he has, in the past shown his colors and stated his philosophies, so intelligent return to canon and historic characterization is very probably gonna be OUT! He screws over the only real writer they got... Claremont... and I am gone. I am not wasting my money or time on their drivel any more and I will encourage anyone who loved the old Marvel to do likewise. I do not think they could have chosen a worse person to give the X universe to. Mark my words... we'll be sorry... we, who love the old Marvel of good storytelling, dynamic characterization and adherence to canon and history of the characters.

There are actually people who blatantly say "Canon doesn't matter" Yes it does! It is part of Marvel's corporate IDENTITY on the Stock Exchange! It is part and parcel of their corporate profile... the shared Universe... the coherent continuity of characters, their lives and adventures.

But to the new writers and editors, who have only been reading comics for ten or so years, the older continuity doesn't matter... and can be radically changed whenever they take it into their brainless heads to do so. And no one is stopping them! Quesada sure isn't... and the buck stops with him! He is the watchdog and guardian of the corporate interests... and he is abdicating his responsibilities so he can be "one of the guys"....the boy's club... the Peer Group... who are equal to themselves but no one is equal to them!

they are the stars... not the characters. they are the movers and shakers...not the characters! NOT!!!!!!! That is NOT how it should be! But it IS how it IS!!! And they don't want ethnic types or females rocking the boat or rattling their little treehouse....not even if the damn forest is burning down areound them and only the movies and merchandising is keeping them going... which, sadly , is the case!

Paelmutter, who could step in and make some intelligent policy, doesn't know the biz. He cares mostly, I believe, about the revenues from the movies and the merchandising and doesn't understand that the publishing part... the books... are the basis for these revenue producing venues. If the characters are destroyed at the root...the rest of the money tree will die! And that rootbed is withering before our very eyes... eroded and eaten away by greed, jealousy, discrimination, bigotry and self service.

It is not a happy picture or future for our wonderful medium. All I can do is encourage people to write to Permutter and tell him your viewpoints. If enough people out here write to him and say"Hey Ike, I am gonna take my major bucks elsewhere if this crap doesn't stop!!! And the characters I have loved for ...X years aren't restored to me..." maybe it will make some kind of impact on him... maybe not....I dunno. We need to point out the total stupidity of taking Claremont off Uncanny ... even as he had brought it from tenth place in the ratings to seventh!!! That decision make no economic sense at all... and is only a sample of the bad decisions that are ruining the economic viability of the publishing end of the company! It has been a downhill slide for the last fifteen ears or so... ever since Bob Harras took over and started gutting the X characters.

Parsonally, I am getting too old to fight it any more. When I get disgusted enough, I will just go away and let it all go to perdition in a handbasket..which is where it is headed... and when the industry implodes, I will not be surprised. I will be sad, however... for the industry still has potential... can still be saved and turned around... but it will take a much saner approach than any we have seen in the past fifteen years!

Paty
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Confizzle » Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:08 am

Really, Claremont isn't the Alpha and Omega of X-writers, he may be the "father" of the X-line but you have to give credit to writers now a days, like Peter A. David, who turned Layla Miller into an interesting character, and is one of the few interested in Madrox other than the one-man army bit, Mike Carey is doing a good job with X-Men, Whedon, Brubacker, nearly every X-writer out there at the moment is doing a fine job from my viewpoint, but of course I'm young so what do I know?

I can name a few strong women that populate the X-World. There's Shadowcat, M, Rogue, Siryn, Emma Frost, Mystique, and Layla Miller.

To put my point into a fun baseball analogy. Claremont was the big slugger for Marvel for years, yet he's aging and dropping in numbers, are you going to hold on to him till his last breath or are you going to try and let a rookie come up and try and fill the spot, sure some may be horrible writers, but you've got to try to find new people to fill the slot and hopefully they'll be as successful for this generation of comic readers as Claremont was for the 70-80's generations.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Angelique » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:59 am

Perhaps you are generalizing about women in at least Judaism and Christianity a bit. I mean how likely would we see see any woman, let alone a Christian, Jew, or Muslim parading around a la Emma Frost in public?

I could go on forever about women in the Bible who were defined by much more than whether they were married, had kids, or had a sordid past. Judges, deacons, spies, innkeepers, tradeswomen, prophets. In many cases, whether or not they'd ever "known" men is never even mentioned. In others, a husband or kid might be mentioned as an afterthought, to clarify, "Oh, we're talking about Mary, James' mom, as opposed to any of the other four or five Marys that hung out with Jesus." But all that's for another post on another board perhaps.

Anyway, I stand by what I say about there being nothing Christian about a white-bread boys' club treating women like sex objects.

Confizzle, unfortunately, all the characters you've mentioned have been efeminated (somehow emasculated just doesn't seem the right word, yet I can't think of any other to get the point across) under someone's pen or another. Remember in Excalibur when Shadowcat's IQ must have dropped 50 points? And when have M or Emma ever been written as simultaneously strong and non-bitchy?

Anyway, that's my $200. (Adjusted for inflation, and anyway, I think I said more than 2 cents worth.)
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Paty » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:28 am

:magneto
there are a couple of excellent writers extant these days... of which Peter Daveid is one. He is excellent. Claremont could be just as excellent, though he is aging... as everybody does... he can still write when they let him. But as soon as he starts to build momentum and a fan base again, they yank his characters away from him, cancel his books, telling us they are only going to be on hiatus and then yanking them when the dealers lower their orders because of the hiatus announcement. That's how the game is played there, kiddo. the office has it's ways of making sure the people they want to succeed DO.. and the people they DON'T want to succeed, no matter how talented, do not. The average reader just doesn't know the politics of the business. And those ARE the politics of the biz, kiddo.

I have enjoyed Whedon's work on Astonishing and a new writer, David Hine, on Son of M, I found to be very enjoyable to read. But Claremont BUILT the X universe almost single handedly. He took it to heights none of these boyos can even DREAM of... two to five hundred thousand copies a month REGULARLY FOR CLOSE TO TWO DECADES!!! and that doesn't even count the eight million copies of XMen one that were sold...cuz that was a bit of an anomaly what with five different covers and collectors and speculators going nutsyfagan! so don't talk to me about Claremont aging and not being able to write any more. He was bringing Uncanny back into the upper echelon of the list when he had it, once again, unceremoniously yanked out from under him... and sales have plummetted with his departure. I don't know Brubaker's work...but he is a relative unknown...having, I believe, only done a few issues of New Genesis... and you simply DO NOT take a team who is bringing any book..and especially the PREMIERE book in the X Universe... UP in the ratings and kick them off and give the book to a relatively unknown writer of unproven talent. It is not economically sound! A book is RISING in the ratings? You leave the creators alone to work their magick and get it into the top five and hopefully the numero uno place... where it was for years, under Claremont, by the way!
Claremont isn't perfect by any means, ... he does have occasional faults...LOL... any human creator does. You cannot please all of the people all of the time.... but he is still one of the best writers Marvel has and the disrespect with which he has been treated is mind boggling. But fate has a way of evening the score... and what goes around comes around. The boyos dishing out shit won't ALWAYS be on top and sooner or later they will have to take the kind of shit they are currently dishing out to their betters. time wounds all heels... and is a great leveller of egoes.

Kitty Pryde feels like a superheroine non entity these days. She is doing X duty under protest cuz she has gotten into politics...which in the real world might give her some power...or not... but as far as a superdoop, she is relatively negated. Emma is a bitch, nothing but a bitch and that is the only strength these boyos will allow a woman any more... the strength of bichdom. OK... it IS a potent strength... but women can be strong, stalwart and heroic without being bitches or strutting around like forty second street whores in slutty costumes... just for the tittilation of little boys... and very immature males who callthemselves men. I have nothing against sexy costumes... but slutty, I draw the line at... and when a costume obviously has to be held on with spirit gum...welll... that's slutty, kiddo. Cutouts and skin showing are almost de rigour for female super doops... and within reason and function, it is OK... but mostly it is just T and A for the boyos any more. No style...no design...just slut factor.
And that is not a strong woman... it is merely a sleazy bitch. Yeah... that's Emma to a T.

And when breasts get so big they leave drop shadows across the tummy... I am sorry... that's right OUT. The comics Code used to regulate ... to some degree... how big the boyos could draw breasts...and when the Code died, the boobs became humongous and the nipple factor was rampant for a while at least. They have backed off a bit on the nipple factor...but the breasts these ladies are sporting these days look like a prime watermelon harvest! Nothing smaller than a cantaloupe need apply! PTUI!
Then they paste the costume on with spirit gum. and that takes the place of decent writing...well...that and bigger and bigger explosions...

I don't read all the Marvel line like I once did...I would have to be a millionaire to afford it...or at least independently wealthy... which I am not. But I try to keep abreast of the X books where my main man, Mags might appear...and quite frankly, I feel most of the time like I am wasting my money cuz there isn't even a story in most of the books... merely vignettes stretched out to consume twenty pages of overblown and badly colored art. Once in a grat while, I am surprised by a well written story... a boon to sore eyes and despairing mind... but only rarely. After sixty years of reading, I have standards i will not lower. I LOVE comics... I have always LOVED comics! And they have gone through ups and downs with storylines, writers, and art styles. This, too, will hopefully pass... I would like it to pass before I croak off...but I ain't gonna bet the rent on it.

Paty
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Nachtteufel » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:49 am

Originally posted by Angelique
Perhaps you are generalizing about women in at least Judaism and Christianity a bit. I mean how likely would we see see any woman, let alone a Christian, Jew, or Muslim parading around a la Emma Frost in public?

I could go on forever about women in the Bible who were defined by much more than whether they were married, had kids, or had a sordid past. Judges, deacons, spies, innkeepers, tradeswomen, prophets. In many cases, whether or not they'd ever "known" men is never even mentioned. In others, a husband or kid might be mentioned as an afterthought, to clarify, "Oh, we're talking about Mary, James' mom, as opposed to any of the other four or five Marys that hung out with Jesus." But all that's for another post on another board perhaps.

Anyway, I stand by what I say about there being nothing Christian about a white-bread boys' club treating women like sex objects.
Two words for you: Inquisition & History.

Saying there is nothing Christian about a white-bread boys' club treating women like sex objects is neglecting the history and present being of the christian church.

Now this doesn't mean I think it is the future of the christian church or even an accurate description of how women are looked upon by the christian community as a whole.

However that being said christianity has been and still (in some places) is a hindrance to womens rights and the perception of women as equals to men.

Again this isn't the whole christian comunity but what some christians do makes people who aren't christians percieve christianity as unegalitarian. (Much like what a small part of the Islamic or lets say anarchist comunities make their respective comunity suffer for)

I'm sure you're not in anyway narrowminded like those small parts of a larger whole. But until those not as narrowminded admitts there is a problem and starts to do something about it well...
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by SamKarns » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:48 pm

Don't get me started on sexual discrimination in this industry...
****
Please do, Paty, I need to know. I need to know these women talent who I only know as Gail Simone.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Confizzle » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:55 pm

Confizzle, unfortunately, all the characters you've mentioned have been efeminated (somehow emasculated just doesn't seem the right word, yet I can't think of any other to get the point across) under someone's pen or another. Remember in Excalibur when Shadowcat's IQ must have dropped 50 points? And when have M or Emma ever been written as simultaneously strong and non-bitchy?
Well of course they're gonna be written horribly under some writer or another, the guys have that happen to them to. But I believe that all the women I mentioned are being written well at the moment. Also who says that Emma and M being bitchy is bad it could be parts of their personality, really I like Whedon's Emma and Kitty, as previously stated, but my favorite version of Emma was under Lobdell's pen in Gen X, and I like M under David in X-Factor. Rogue and Mystique seem on a track to being well written with Carey, and I don't think Layla's been around enough to be too terribly written.

Anyway, Brubacker is the writer of Captain America and Daredevil for Marvel, and both of those books have gone up in sales so he's not a complete unknown, I enjoyed his minseries and sofar his Uncanny is solid stuff.

I do agree that some stuff Marvel puts out can be quite confusing, as an example the New Avengers comic where Magneto came back, or something like that, left me quite confused, they do produce good stuff to.


I really do applaud Claremont for building the X-World and creating tons of our favorite characters(Madrox), you have to be a great writer to write from 1976-1991, and I enjoy some of his work, and dislike some of it, I do hope he recovers and goes to write Exiles, and brings that book around, for now I am content with who writes the main titles, and hope that they can make the titles their own, with out being replaced in 2-3 years. Uncanny has had about 4 writers(Casey, Austen, Claremont, Brubacker) and Adjectiveless has as many(Morrison, Austen, Milligan, Carey) since 2001, so hopefully the last two will be on for a while cause I believe that so many creator changes can hurt a book.

A

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Post by Angelique » Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:22 am

I wrote a very beautiful yet lengthy reply, and then the computer went on the fritz.

But suffice to say, I think most people here, barring Paty, of course, would very much mind if I got started on the 2,000 plus years worth of reasons why my brand of feminism is perfectly, logically consistent with my Faith. I likely would not stop until the small hours of some morning three weeks from now on stuff that really has not much to do with Dave or Paty's perspectives on X-Men.

As for how women are written, I do think bitchy is bad. Nasty attitudes and mean behavior are poor substitutes for genuine strength. And I think men who can't write strong independent female characters without making them horrible people, and can't write thoroughly good female characters without making them weak and overly reliant upon others should probably at the very least seek a woman's input into their writing.
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Nachtteufel » Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:05 am

Angelique: I couldn't agree more with you about female characters in comics (or other mediums).

I'm sure your faith and feminism work very well together. The core message of christianity would do that in my humble opinion.

Although some christians today and in the past have done and said things that would make a feminist object. The group gets judged for what parts of it do and say, especially if its something bad.
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Paty » Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:11 am

:magneto

Heh...
don't hold your breath waiting for the boy's club to ask a woman's input! that's the problem. they want woment to be like what they WANT them to be ... not like what they ARE!!!

Bitchy and nasty is fine for Emma...IF you are not trying to tout her as a heroine!. she has proved she is not one in my book. Her actions speak so loudly I cannot hear the hype they are trying to force down our throats.

claremont wrote strong women and was building a fantastic readership in the female sector... cuz his females, while different in tone and makup, were strong women... and they WERE herones... or villains. the strong woman didn't have to be bitchy or nasty or mean or petty.... all of which Emma is. Oh, she had a horrrible childhood...Oh, she was misunderstood... sorry... others had worse and got over it. As long as emma continues to act like a self centered bitch, I cannot take her seriously as a REFORMED villainess.... she hasn't grown or reformed... not deep down ... where it counts. she has no honor...only self interest. and that isn't heroic.

While there is an occasional glimmer of something interesting, I by and large do not expect to see anything from the boy's club to elevate women much above their status of servant, wimp, or bitch... cuz I think that is how they see women. don't know for sure... but how you write characters says a hell of a lot more about you than anything you say to fans or in interviews. A writer can make excuses and kid himself about his views... but the proof of the pudding is what happens to their characters... both male and female... and how they write them.

Nope... Claremont and his artist were merrily building storylines for the next two years... you want continuity and stability? it's name is Claremont...he has that kind of a track record. and the book was yanked out from under him for NO reason...especially an economic one ... which is why most decisions like that are made. He had just taken the book two points UP in the ratings... and was once again building a strong fan base... something you WANT!!! I t is called PROFITS!!!
This move, if nothing else in the history of comics shows the favoritism and jealousy extant at Marvel... cuz it is SO illogical. If he were falling or even holding steady... fine... it might make sense.. but RISING??? sorry... you do NOT screw with a book that is RISING in the ratings. THATS THE RULE!!!

Or at least it was back in the day when real pros ran the biz.

Paty
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by SamKarns » Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:14 pm

I was stumped when I heard The White Queen became a part of the X-Men. In the back of my mind I felt there was a devious plan for her to betray them but it never came to be. I do agree I think The White Queen should be a villain because she never evolved from what she was. The Scarlet Witch was a prime example of evolving from a villain into a heroine until she was ruined on West Coast Avengers.

I do think a female touch would be appropriate for the X-Men. Just to see what she could bring to the table.

++++++

Angelique, feel free to discuss it, I have no clue about women in the business. What they went through, there will have some relevance on what we're talking about. I'm sure as long as Paty is contributing she will somehow bring it back on the related topic. Remember what you guys told me earlier, sometime during conversations we drift but will get back on topic through out the rants.

++++

Dave, when you working on X-Men were you deep in the development of the Storm Punk Rock phase? How did that all come together. When you and Chris were tight creative force did you start creating another method of storytelling without the legendary Marvel Method?

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Paty » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:27 pm

:magneto

Haw...haw...haw... hmmmmm... what WAS the original topic??? Oh, yeah... you asked dave what his perspective was on the X Men... then you asked ME about women in comics... or my perspective and it segued into women in comics....

Actually, the scarlet witch was never really a villain. Yeah, she was a member of the brotherhood...but that was because Mags saved her and pietro and she thought she owed him favors and loyalty. she looked askance at a lot of the activities that went on with that motly crew...and she and peitro left as soon as they logically could... probably still thinking they were being disloyal to someone who had saved them... but not being able to resolve their own honor with some of the actions of that group.
I have never looked at wanda as a villainess... in spite of that Brotherhood affiliation. A villain or villainess has to be self centered and egocentric in their very soul... which I believe Emma is... so no matter how much she lip services Xavier's causes, these days, I do not look on her as a heroine. Wanda always had a nobility and innocence that was very heroic, if niave at times... but niavetee is a heroic failing, not a villainous one...LOL

And Chris waited till Dave left the book to do the punk thing with Storm cuz Dave never saw her as that kind of personna. chris is basically a beta personality... he was into strong women in black leather and such, and wanted to do that with Storm... and dave, who created the character and saw her as a very regaal goddess like figure could not think of her in that way...and he told Chris..."NO WAY!" so Chris just waited until Dave left the book and then did it...much as he waited until John Byrne left the book to do interesting things with Magneto that he knew Byrne would fight him on. So he waited until Dave came back on the book to delve into Magneto's background... starting witht Uncanny 150.
I remember Dave's distress when Chris did that.punk, mohawk thing. He was pissed... but he had given up the book and finally saw how that worked. You go off a book, you lose any input into the development of the characters you might have with a writer.
Dave was a storyteller as much as Chris was, so they worked well, bouncing ideas off each other ... sometimes in the middle of the night!!! there were times the phone would ring at two am and I would fling curses at Chris's head as he and Dave talked out a modification of a scene while I tried to get back to sleep cuz i had to go into the office and catch a seven am train...sigh...

I am sure Dave will expound on this further, though..
LOL
paty
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Jeremys Iron » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:19 pm

Originally posted by Paty
He was bringing Uncanny back into the upper echelon of the list when he had it, once again, unceremoniously yanked out from under him... and sales have plummetted with his departure. I don't know Brubaker's work...but he is a relative unknown...having, I believe, only done a few issues of New Genesis... and you simply DO NOT take a team who is bringing any book..and especially the PREMIERE book in the X Universe... UP in the ratings and kick them off and give the book to a relatively unknown writer of unproven talent.
I don't think what you said here is accurate. First, sales on Uncanny X-Men have not plummeted since Claremont left the book, they've gone up. Claremont's last issue was #474, sold somewhere around 78,140 copies and came in at #23 on the chart; while the last issue I can find sales numbers for since Brubaker took over is #476 which sold approximately 88,775 copies and was at #19. Also, let's not forget that Claremont recently had a major health scare and would have had to leave the book (at least for a little while, as he has with Exiles) anyway.

Second, Ed Brubaker is not unknown, unproven or even that new to comics. He has been writing and drawing (although he only writes now) comics since the early 90's. He is a critically acclaimed writer with multiple nominations for many different awards, including several Eisner nominations for Best Writer. Also, he just recently won the 2006 Harvey Award for Best Writer for his work on books like Captain America and Daredevil.

Here's a list of the books he's worked on, I don't know if it's a complete list, but regardless that's at least 250 issues since 1991, hardly unproven or a flash in the pan.

9-11 - The World's Finest Comic Book Writers & Artists Tell Stories to Remember #2 ("Still Life"; DC Comics, 2002)
At the Seams (Alternative Press, 1997)
The Authority: Revolution # 1-12 (Wildstorm; December, 2004 - December, 2005)
Batman #582-607 (DC Comics; October, 2000 - November, 2002)
Batman: Gotham Noir (DC Comics; March 2001, ASIN B0006RN36U),
Batman: The Man Who Laughs (DC Comics; February, 2005)
Batman: Our Worlds At War #1 (DC Comics; August, 2001)
Batman: Turning Points #2-3 (DC Comics; January, 2001)
Books of Doom #1-6 (Marvel Comics; January - June, 2006)
Captain America Vol.5 #1 - present (Marvel Comics; January, 2005 - present)
Captain America 65th Anniversary Special #1 (Marvel Comics; May, 2006)
Catwoman #1-37 (DC Comics; January, 2002 - January, 2005)
Catwoman Secret Files and Origins #1 (DC Comics; Nov, 2002)
Coup D'Etat: Sleeper #1 (Wildstorm; April, 2004)
Daredevil #82 - present (Marvel Comics; Apr, 2006 - present)
Dark Horse Presents #50, (Dark Horse Comics; "Burning Man", Apr, 1991)
Dark Horse Presents #65-67 (Dark Horse Comics; "An Accidental Death", Sept - Nov, 1992)
Dark Horse Presents #96-98 (Dark Horse Comics; "Here And Now", April - June 1995)
Dark Horse Presents #100 (Dark Horse Comics; "Bird Dog", August, 1995)
Dark Horse Presents #106 (Dark Horse Comics; "Godzilla's Day", February, 1996)
Deadenders #1-16 (Vertigo; March 2000- June 2001)
Detective Comics #758 (DC Comics; back-up story "History Lesson"; July, 2001)
Detective Comics #759-762 (DC Comics; back-up story "Trail of the Catwoman part 1-4", August - November, 2001)
Detective Comics #777-786 (DC Comics; February, 2003 - November, 2003)
Detour #1 (Alternative Comics; 1997)
The Fall (Drawn & Quarterly; 2001)
Gangland #3 (Vertigo, DC Comics; "Small Time"; August, 1998)
Gotham Central #1-6 (DC Comics; with Greg Rucka; February - May 2003)
Gotham Central #11 (DC Comics; November, 2003)
Gotham Central #12-15 (DC Comics; with Greg Rucka; December, 2003 - March, 2004)
Gotham Central #16 (DC Comics; April, 2004)
Gotham Central #19-22 (DC Comics; July - October, 2004)
Gotham Central #26-27 (DC Comics; February, 2005)
Gotham Central #33-36 (DC Comics; with Greg Rucka; September, 2003 - December, 2004)
Hawkman #27 (DC Comics; June, 2004)
Lowlife #1-4 (Caliber & Black Eye Books)
Point Blank #1-5 (October, 2002 -February, 2003)
Robin #86 (DC Comics; March, 2001)
Sandman Presents: Dead Boy Detectives #1-4 (Vertigo; August - November, 2001)
Scene of the Crime #1-4 (Vertigo; May - August, 1999)
Sleeper #1-12 (Wildstorm; March, 2003 - March, 2004)
Sleeper: Season Two #1-12 (Wildstorm; August, 2004 - July, 2005)
SPX '97 Comic #1 (Small Press Expo; "Mysteries?", September, 1997)
Tom Strong #29, 30 (America's Best Comics; December, 2004 - January, 2005)
Uncanny X-Men #475 - present (Marvel Comics; September, 2006 - present)
Vertigo Visions: Prez, Smells Like Teen President (Vertigo, 1995)
Vertigo: Winter's Edge #2 (Vertigo; "God and Sinners", January, 1999)
Vertigo: Winter's Edge #3 (Vertigo; "The Morning After", January, 2000)
What if Aunt May Had Died instead of Uncle Ben? #1 (Marvel Comics; February, 2005)
X-Men: Deadly Genesis #1-6 (Marvel Comics; January - June, 2006)

[Edited on 18/9/06 by Jeremys Iron]
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Paty » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:42 pm

:magneto
OK...LOL... I answered this yesterday and as soon as I sent it, Nightscrawlers disappeared...so I hope this answer doesn't bump it offline again...

Not being a DC reader, I wasn't aware of Brubaker's credits at DC ... they do look impressive... so I will give this guy a chance. The only thing I knew of him was that he had done some issues of New Genesis... which I sorta equated with remakes of classic movies...never as good as the original...and why bother?
I still think yanking Uncanny away from Claremont just as he was building his fan base again and rising in the ratings was a dirty smarmy trick... one they play with Claremont all the time. Excalibur being another example. That book, under Stephanie Moore, a female editor, was really beginning to shape up and get interesting...Chris works best with female editors. It had finally started to find it's market and Chris was going into the interaction between Xavier and Mags... and they were so afraid of that that they yanked it ... with the lie that it was going on hiatus... and so was Astonishing. Well, to my knowledge, Astonishing never did go on hiatus...did it? I remember reading Astonishing issues during the HOuse of M debacle. Well, they knew Excalibur was gonna be cancelled...they just hadn't told us...or possibly, Chris. dirty tricks department at Marvel in full bloom. I don't think I was railing as much against Brubaker, as I was defending Chris. Brubaker may be a fine and competant replacement...we shall see... but the thing was that Claremont had taken the book up in the ratings. Other books at Marvel are low and even declining and they are not bothered.. they plug on morosely.
So... OK... latel a lot of creators have jumped ship at marvel...including Marts, an editor who just left the primiere gig of X editorship...so if they wanted to keep Brubaker, they probably had to offer him something juicy... and the juiciest of the juicy is Uncanny... the Premiere book of the X Universe...built by Claremont.

So we are back to dirty tricks department, aren't we? They know Claremont won't jump ship and go to DC like so many others have done... because he loves the Marvel characters he created...probably among other reasons. kSo they can screw him over to keep other writers that may be ready to jump shiip by giving THEM his books which are on their way up in the ratings...thanks to him. Then they give him another peripheral book in the X universe and watch him bring it to acceptable ratings before they yank it away from him again....give it to someone they are wooing, and start him all over with another book. There IS apattern here...
The fact that they actually GAVE him Magneto to write for a while was amazing to us out here watching this circus. As soon as he started cementing Magneto's holocaust bacstory... which factions there STILL want to destroy... they yanked the book. If he had stayed away from that backstory that was so important to him and the character, I bet Excalibur Vol.2 might still be extant. But the backstory was part and parcel of the character as Claremont developed him...a veritable masterpiece that the boyos cannot stomach. The question is WHY cannot they stomach it.?? It was brilliant. Is that the reason? simple jealousy? Well... not so simple when you consider Claremont's contribution to comics in general and Marvel in particular. A whole universe... a major financial leg of Marvel... that did not start to decline until Hardass kicked him off the X books. And even then it took a decade to lay Marvel as low in the ratings as it is right now. Chris built that universe well and it takes a lot to destroy something built that well. So why don't they let him do it again? Why do they keep yanking his books away from him as soon as they start rising in the ratings?
It is all personality bullshit and that is no way to run a comics company. It is political intrigue in the offices. Whatever gods there may be help Marvel if people like Mark Millar or Axel Alonzo oust Quesada and become EiC...which, considering Joey is getting back to doing art is not an unlikely prospect. He has hinted that he may not be EIC forever...yeah... well...no one is EIC forever...but still...
Who should the X books been given to when Marts jumped ship? Claremont. He built that franchise and took it to it's highest heights. If he is getting old enough not to want to write any more... and I don't think that for an instant...but if he IS.. than his steady hand on the venue would be the most sensible thing they could do. But these days it is all about CHANGE... so Alonzo gets the nod... and God help them. Change...of which we have had a plethora of in the past five years...to Marvel's detriment... has not proven to be the golden goose they thought it would be. Personality conflicts and office politics are ignoring the goose sitting over there on the sidelines who has always laid the golden eggs at marvel.

That's all. Thanks for the rundown on Brubaker's credits at DC. They are, indeed, impressive... so we shall see what he does with the X books. I may even go dig out that Hawkman...I am sure I read it as it is the one DC book I do read regularly... but I don't remember that story or whether I liked it or not. I may go check it out... if I can find the book...that was around the time we moved and everything got lost... some of it is still lost...sigh... I have still got half a barn to unpack!!!

Paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
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Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Dark Bamf » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:25 am

She's not kidding about the barn...there's stuff we may never see again!

:bamf
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Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Unknown » Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:10 pm

the arc starts with New X Men 147 and runs to 150 and is the most stupid, vile and bigotted tirade in the history of comics. Not only for what it does to Magneto… but for what it did to every character Morrison could get his hands on….
Mrs. Cockrum
I am an 18 year old Jewish person. Keep this in mind while reading this essay.

And I have read TONS of Grant Morrisons works. And I can say with absolute certainty that THERE IS NO TRACE OF BIGOTRY IN ANY OF THEM.

If you have ever read ANIMAL MAN #1-26, you would find that Grant Morrison writes some of the most intelligent and LOVING works I have EVER read. And I have read a LOT. But that's not just it. You also seem to forget that Magneto in that story line WAS BEING MIND CONTROLLED. MIND CONTROLLED. As in that may as well have not been Magneto, since his mind was long gone, possesed by an evil sentient bacteria that probably caused the Holocaust. But you didn't bother to actually READ it. You just glanced at it and LIKE ANY BIGOT, made an assumption based on appearence. And your reaction is just...immature. Seriously, if I didn't know any better, I'd say you were only ten years old, based off that post. Not exactly a good message to send.

Oh, and if you ban me, and/or delete this message, YOU'RE NO DIFFERENT FROM JOHN BYRNE!

Sincerely, Matthew.

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Post by Rivka » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:35 am

You also seem to forget that Magneto in that story line WAS BEING MIND CONTROLLED. MIND CONTROLLED. As in that may as well have not been Magneto, since his mind was long gone, possesed by an evil sentient bacteria that probably caused the Holocaust.
You seem to forget that that wasn't Magneto, it was Kuan Yin Xorn. As for Sublime, he didn't "cause the Holocaust" -- geez. He's a deluded ancient lifeform, That Which Endures; thinks he has controlled evolution for millions of years. He/It hasn't. He/It tried to control Xorn, but it didn't really work either. Evil Sentient Bacteria aren't good at controlling people. Marvel hasn't definitely said what controlled Xorn in "Planet X." It might not have been Sublime. Given what we just saw in Astonishing X-Men #17, it could very well have been [spoiler] Cassandra Nova. [/spoiler]

If Xorn had been the real Magneto, which he wasn't, then you must have been just glancing at Morrison's NEW X-MEN run, not reading it, since it was clear that Xorn wasn't controlled by Sublime, just hyped up on "Kick." We found out later, via one line in "Here Comes Tomorrow" that "Kick" was Sublime in aerosole form and Xorneto killed Jean Gray "under orders he never understood"; and fans then jumped to the conclusion that Xorneto was therefore completely controlled by Sublime. But that hasn't really been established. It's just speculation. Kick/Sublime -- or microbial parts of Sublime -- could have been used by someone/something else.

Sublime's delusional monologuing (heh -- classic villain stuff) about how great and ancient and powerful he is, is to be taken with a huge grain of salt. Obviously He/It didn't have any such influence in the Marvel Universe, because too many other stories over the past 40+ years indicate otherwise. So, we have to say, Sublime seems to be the same entity as That Which Endures and his/its view of things isn't to be trusted.

Kuan Yin Xorn also could have been something of an acolyte or bad guy himself, right from the start. Maybe the Chinese authorities were right to put him in prison. Not every mutant prisoner is some innocent victim of anti-mutant prejudice; could be Xorn should have stayed in prison, and Scott Summers was manipulated into busting him out.
Oh, and if you ban me, and/or delete this message, YOU'RE NO DIFFERENT FROM JOHN BYRNE!

Sincerely, Matthew.
LOL! Byrne does like to eliminate people (and characters) he doesn't approve of. Paty doesn't do that. She just gets in your face. But you're 18 years old. She'll be nice to you. My son is a nice Jewish young man of 22 years, and he likes John Byrne -- at least his work. Go figure. I did manage to convince my son of Morrison's ineptitude on NEW X-MEN, although I think Morrison's an excellent writer on a lot of other things he's done, and WE3 is a work of genius. NEW X-MEN is the worst thing he's ever written, though.

Personally, I give him credit for keeping Magneto Jewish -- he wasn't trying to subvert Xorneto's heritage. He just went way too far with portraying Xorneto's attack on New York. It was disgusting, really. In the same week NXM #150 came out, several magazines had just hit the stands that described famous Jewish characters in comics, including Magneto, most especially the article in REFORM JUDAISM MAGAZINE, for the first time allowing a lot of people outside the world of comics to appreciate these characters. Also, the X-MEN -2 movie had just come out on DVD. It was embarrassing as hell! Jewish people and non-Jewish people alike, picking up the X-Men comic in the stores that week, seeing "Magneto" acting so stupidly, building crematoria. That's something no Holocaust surivivor of the Sonderkommando would ever do. And the fine points about Sublime or Kick are lost on the general public, who see this crappola. Morrison himself was in a bad frame of mind when he wrote "Planet X" -- because it's just bad. Stinko. Some of the worst writing I've ever encountered in comics.

Anyway, it wasn't Magneto. So the issue is settled.

Like I said, to me, Morrison isn't the "villain." He at least kept Magneto Jewish, even if he "celebrated" this fact in a distorted and political way. My main concern is that even at this moment, there are those at Marvel who are trying to get some arrogant and moronic plan or other past the EinC and other editors, to take away Magneto's Jewish heritage and Holocaust history. This is pure anti-Semitism -- nothing less. These dudes can disguise their motives as many things - but it all comes down to the same thing in the end. They don't want this powerful and beautiful and masterful adversary of the X-Men to be a Jew. And they don't want to deal with the Holocaust and history. So far, the guys in charge -- including EinC Quesada, who I think is a good man and an excellent editor in chief --(I really admire him tremendously) --seem to be holding the line, and refuse to be roped into these idiotic plans.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Paty » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:29 am

:magneto

Well... I had a whole letter ready to post and the damn machine stole it...sigh... OK...let's see if the sixty four year old brain can remember what I said...sigh DAMN I hate computers! Younever had this bullshit with a typewriter!

OK... First off, kiddo... I am sixty four, spent eight years working on staff at Marvel when you weren't even a zygote! and I really don't know why I should be nice to you, since it is quite obvious you have been sent over from the Morrison camp to rabble rouse and stir up trouble. But hey... if you want to come over, claim you are eighteen and Jewish... fine... your fantasy, not mine. Your post sounds more like a ten or twelve year old ranting, though... and PLEASE don't equate us with John Byrne... who thinks he is not onlyGod... but also thinks nobody can smell his shit cuz he can't ...in fact, he doesn't even admit to laying it...

OK... Now, I have read a lot of books and comic books beyond your ability to count. I have also read classical literature, New York Times bestsellers...and have even done editorial duty for a NYT bestselling writer. I have been licensed in three states to teach English and four states to teach art... so I know my business, youngster. Obviously you do not.

Morrison's run on Animal Man. which started out splendidly, devolved about halfway through into gibberish and non storytelling... the same as his run on the Xbook... there is a pattern here if you care to examine it, kiddo. Morrison started out brilliantly on AM... so brilliantly, that I remember Dave and I were quite impressed with this new writer and thought he would go far. We eagerly awaited each book as it came out.. until about halfwaay through it started to devolve...the stories became incoherent and muddy, the characterization began falling apart and the writing generally declined in quality. We were both dismayed, since we had had high hopes for this young writer but we figured maybe he got into drugs or something and it scrambled his abilities...which we were saddened to contemplate. Now, I understand that Morrison has publically said he does drugs... so somebody better tell him not to write while he is under the influence... cuz others have found out it doesn't work. Wouldn't know...never went there, myself...but that's what I hear from folks that have.
In any event, even if he didn't have his brain addled by mind altering stuff... he seems to lose interest about halfway through a run, begins to lose any coherence or characterization and begins to use vignettes that should only take a couple of pages ...and stretches them out to fill a whole twenty page book. Now, this means he has to do less work, of course... and leaves giant loopholes you can drive mack trucks through for his avid followers to fill up from their own imaginations, while he sagely wags his nebulous head and tells them they are so smart to have fathomed his meaning... which wasn't there in the first place! Which means it would be so easy to retcon every damn thing he did that it isn't even funny!!!

But if you are telling me you are an eighteen year old Jewish reader... and you weren't offended by Planet X... well, sorry , kiddo... I don't believe for a minute that you are either eighteen, Jewish or a competent reader. And when the great God Morrison asks you to drink poisoned Kool Ade, will you do it?

I understand I have been blogged over at Newsarama...LOL... OK... If I knew what a blog was, I might be either amused or alarmed... but I don't... so I don't much care. But the upshot is, all you devoted Nightscrawler fans, that we probably will get inundated with a bunch of juveniles who have just learned about Nightscrawlers and the old biddy holding court here...and who will be set to come and whet their teeth on my decaying flesh...HAW...HAW...HAW... chew on, children... I know what I know, I willsay what I think and I don't give a hot shit in hell for your whining and posturing. I am old enough to be your grandmother...most of you...and your mother for the rest.. so I don't take shit from whippersnappers.
Go back to Morrison and tell himit didn't work, kid...the old bat doesn't scare or back down....and sometimes I am not even nice... although I must admire my restraint in dealing with this ten year old... Hey senior mods...don't we have rules against anyone under thirteen... cuz if this kid is eighteen I will be totally surprised... the letter reads like someone who hasn't reached puberty...or any kind of understanding of even teen values yet...

LOL
paty
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Angelique » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:09 am

Can I call our unknown guest Grendel? Because I think that's a cute name for a troll!
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Paty » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:15 am

:magneto
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
Oh, by all means... carry on, sugarbumps!

LOL
paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Angelique » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:38 am

Grendel, please, no shouting at the creators, nor insulting the intelligence of the other posters here. Thank you.

By the way, the idea that the Holocaust could be caused by sentient bacteria rather than by hateful humans strikes me as a bit anti-Semitic.
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Dark Bamf » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:12 am

Originally posted by Unknown

If you have ever read ANIMAL MAN #1-26, you would find that Grant Morrison writes some of the most intelligent and LOVING works I have EVER read.Not exactly a good message to send.

Oh, and if you ban me, and/or delete this message, YOU'RE NO DIFFERENT FROM JOHN BYRNE!

Sincerely, Matthew.
Say, Matthew, Paty and I both read and ennnjoyed the early Animal Man, as she stated above. But by the end of the series it was plain that Morrison was no longer writing, he was just jerking off in the comics.

I can't comment on his work on X-Men, because I gave up reading the X-line long beforte Morrison came aboard. But I trust Paty's opinion.

And don't worry, Paty won't ban you or delete you. For one thing, she doesn't know how. But I do--and I won't ban you either. We don't do that over here. If you behave yourself, you can stay.

:bamf
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Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Paty » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:32 am

:magneto

Y'see, kid...here, unlike other places, we can agree to disagree. I state my opinion... you whine yours... it all evens out... we donn't shout or make rude threats...or try to browbeat people or coerce them.

Personally I am unfailingly even tempered and good natured whom you never hear complain... no... waait... that's Magneto...

Heh...
Paty
:magneto
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Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Post by Unknown » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:03 pm

Originally posted by Paty
:magneto

Y'see, kid...here, unlike other places, we can agree to disagree. I state my opinion... you whine yours... it all evens out... we donn't shout or make rude threats...or try to browbeat people or coerce them.

Personally I am unfailingly even tempered and good natured whom you never hear complain... no... waait... that's Magneto...

Heh...
Paty
:magneto
THANK GOD! Sanity! I've been dealing with trolls for so long that's it's just a relief to get someone intelligent.
I apologize for any negative comments. Or whatnot. It's just when I see something I disagree with, I have a tendency to rant. A lot. And sometimes I just lose myself in complete anger and rage...MATTHEW SMASH...err, sorry.

As for the zygote comment...well while age does equal expereince the youth can learn from, the youth offer a different perspective that the elderly can learn from. But that's just me, and my skewed perception of the world, where reality rearranges itself every ten seconds...

(Still, Magneto is nothing next to DOCTOR DOOM!)

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