PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Post by Paty »

:mags:
COHERENT??? Tou use that term in the same sentence as Marvel...or the X books??? You Jest!
No such thing...Marvel lately has made it a policy to be incoherent. It permeates the whole Marvel multiverse. It totally sucks! Moose! Sideways! With a straw!
Marvel once prided itself on it's universal continuity as opposed to DC's willy nilly universe of anyone writing what they wanted with whoever they wanted. It was Marvel's forte.
Why they have abandoned the policies and characters that made them the number one comics company thirty years ago is beyond me. Greed? Yeah, that had something to do with the fall of Marvel. they got corporate raided by Perelman. ..et al... But the most recent administration...above jemas, who, I swear has done Marvel more damage than a paid mole!...seems steadier. You have Avi Arad who loves the characters and is finally making Marvel movies that aren't drek. But that's because he respects the characters and treats them seriously in his films. When you do that, it all works...and your audience believes what it is seeing...and gets in to the characters wholeheartedly. That they don't mirror this in the books means only that the audience spaawned by the movies is not gonna read the books...and that is sooo stupid on their parts. The characters in the movies are based on the original characteriaqtions of the silver age and the late seventies and early eighties...when Marvel was at it's zenith. thoses were good days. Good writing, good characterization...because you couldnn't use shock and seex and such to take the place of good storytelling and the Comics Code forced you to tell stories that wouldn't curdle your toenails.
No more, alas. Freedom has merely meant "run riot" with no sensible editorial or administrative control. It used to be we couldn't terminally screw up a major character because of the merchanising revenues. And that should still hold sway...but apparently it does NOT!
So what, if anything .. is going on in the minds of upper management? These idiot writers and editors are being allowed to destroy the foundations on which the House of Ideas has been built...with nothing of substance to replace what is being destroyed!!!
Adios, Maarvel...you used to be Great! How the Mighty have fallen...
Paty
:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Post by Nightcrawler ZERO »

Originally posted by Paty
:mags:
You got that right NZ...It is just dreadful.

Y'see, the theory is that major shit like the total destruction of New York would ripple through the other books. It's gotta ripple through the other X books, cuz he told Xavier he had "renovated" the mansion , and we had a big doublepage spread of him totally destroying the mansion. Now, over in Uncanny, the last time we saw Xorn, chuck was trying to help Lorna Dane with her mental problems...so where is Lorna right now? did Chuck Austen have to deal with a destroyed mansion and dead children or at least maimed and traumatized children...??
If Uncanny comes out and there is no damage or carnage to back up the new X Men book, then it cannot be real. If there is no mention of the destruction in any of the other books, it cannot be real. Marvel is based on Universe continuity. the heroes may not have to deal with the threat directly, but it is acknowledged in their books if it is a big enouugh happening.
Paty
:mags:
And do you know who SHOULD have been the First on the scene? The X-Treme X-Men- Aren't they seperate from the main team because Sage smelled something rotten at the institute? It seems they'd jump on a chance for an "I told you so!"

(On a side note, Claremont seems to refer to the institute team soley in terms of Morrison's characters- could this be a subtle message?

Something rotten at Xaviers= Something Rotten in New X-Men?)

Anyway, here's my ending to the current story arc:

The X-Men lay, bruised and bloodied, at Magneto's feet. He Stands over them with pride, the Xorn Helmet still floating at his right hand side.

MAGNETO:
It's time for this game of our to come to an end.... Good bye, X-me.......eh

Magneto jerks forward, his eyes rolling to the back of his head, his mouth open in shiock. The Xorn helmet bursts through a hole in his chest.

He falls to the ground, and behind him stnads- Magneto!

MAGNETO:
Tell me, Joseph- did you expect this charade to fool anyone?
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Post by Diablo »

Excellent, Nightcrawler Zero !
Yeah, this one shouldn't be the real Magneto !

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Post by Siona »

I agree; if Morrison's thinking straight, he'd better make this psycho one

A) a clone

B) some kind of shape-shifter imitating him

or

C) Some kind of...something. :shrug

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Post by Paty »

:mags:
Yeah, NZ...that's good. Only time will tell on the outcome here.
But tell me...ANYONE WHO READS THE OTHER MARVEL BOOKS... is there ANY ripple down effect in the other books???
the eXTreme team is in california or somewhere west, aren't they? right now? Pacific shoreline? Maybe they don't know what's happening in NY...
Although major news like that is usually broadcast well from the outset...
but spidey? the FF? the Avengers? DD? These peoople are IN new York...where ARE they if this is REAL??? and we are told we must consider it REAL!!! In a pig's eye!!! If it isn't reflected in the rest of the Marvel Multiverse, it AIN'T real!!!!

On another front...Claremont and others have had,I believe, to follow Morrison's lead on the characters. Morrison has been treated like a freakin god at marvel with his contracts and his carte blanche itinerary. Marvel is gonna get reamed a new one by this idiot...what am I saying??? He has already reamed them and they are too stupid or myopic to see it...or feel it in their nether regions...but hopefully they will learn when the fans get really mad and the feces hits the proverbial rotating blades...

Paty
:mags:
...I look at it this way...NOTHING is irrepairable...but this latest abomination comes as close as I have ever seen...P.
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Post by Rivka »

Originally posted by Paty
I am told that Jiminez was told he could not even ask questions of His Godship when he was drawing the thing. This is sheer idiocy...Artists and writers DO need to talk...unless his royalness was telepathing the scenes directly through the artis'ts brain to his fingertips!
Everyone genuflect to the Godalmighty Morrison!
LOL! Hold on to your seat. Jimenez said in an interview a few months ago, that indeed he gets Morrison's instructions telepathically. Yup. The two of them must get along just fine.

Jimenez has been one of my favorite artists and artist/writers. I once participated on a TEMPEST message board, and Jimenez usually answered e-mail and responded to posts. I am simply at a loss to explain his more recent Morrison-fanaticism. Except maybe he being a DC type of guy, he doesn't really have any emotional investment in X-characters, and doesn't care that what he's pencilling (via plot and telepathic instructions) is so beautiful and wrong at the same time.

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Post by Rivka »

Originally posted by Maelstrom
Originally posted by Panz
by the way...just how many times can New York city get whiped out??? doesn't that get costly?????:rolleyes
Well, considering how many times Tokyo has been leveled by various atomic-spawned monstrosities, I guess NY NY is still behind in the destructo-meter by ten or fifteen catastrophes. :tonguewag

And, yes, this is a horribly flippant comment, mashing comics in with the Godzilla franchise, as the Godzilla franchise doesn't even bother for 100% consistancy between movies. However, since it looks like Marvel is going for the same effect, maybe it's not so flippant after all... :(
No, no, not flippant at all. It does look like this is what Marvel is going for.

And that makes Magneto, Godzilla. Which about sums up the entire "Planet X" storyarc in a nutshell. Despite any sytlistic flourishes, despite any interesting Jean Grey-Phoenix developments, this really isn't even a Silver Age Magneto story. Stan Lee at least wrote Magneto as a person. This is a Godzilla monster story with Magneto as the monster. A monster isn't intelligent. A monster says (if he can talk) and does irrational and stupid things so the heroes can slay him at the end of the story. A monster only exists in the story to smash things, kill people, make the heroes have to fight something, and give the heroes something to degrade, humiliate, and destroy without feeling guilty.

As strange as it sounds, I take this dehumanization of Magneto -- yes I know he's a fictional character -- as seriously as the dehumanization of a real person, given Magneto's background and history. I think it's outrageous. THis is what Tony Isabella is talking about right now, with what DC has just done with his character Black Lightning. And that isn't even a fraction of the disrespect and damage that is being done to Magneto.

But yeah, I know your remark was made in a lighter way than I took it, but I think you've hit the nail on the head! You've found the nut in the shell game Marvel is playing.

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Post by Rivka »

Well, When last we saw the X-Men they were in spandex, the Institue resembled a Military Installation rather than a school, and the active roster consisted of Cyclops, Jean, and Wolverine.

When Morrison arrived on the book, the X-Men were in black leather, a few hundred students were set to arrive, and Hank, Kurt, Warren and Bobby returned to active duty. I suspect Lorna performed these tests in the time it took to completely overhaul the institute. no small task.
Now this is VERY interesting. I know you were explaining the time Lorna had to return to Genosha (which makes sense given her conflicted feelings for Magneto -- when he was nearly killed by Wolverine, she returned to help him), and get a blood sample, and find out that Magneto is her biological father.

But, but .... over on X-FAN and the newsgroups, people are posting that the reason Xorn/Magneto (or Xorneto as some wags are calling him) was able to prepare all of his elaborate ruse, was that AFTER the destruction of Genosha, time passed because -- this is when the X-Men set up the school, the X-corp, etc. That it was after the Genoshan genocide the X-Men changed, redesigned the school, started wearing leather uniforms. But, you are right! I think you've described things more accurately. At the moment Morrison's run began, time had passed. The new school was already set up. So, how much time passed between the destruction of Genosha and Cyclops finding Xorn? Xavier went on TV one night and outed himself -- well, it was Cassandra Nova. That didn't take much time. THe X-Corp was already set up by Banshee, although its original purpose was changed, Xavier took it over. People on these other message boards are arguing that it took Xavier all this time to set up the X-Corporation. But it was already in place. He just had to get it under control and re-program it, so to speak.

So, it becomes problematical again, in Morrison's timeframe, how a gravely injured Magneto could build that Chinese prison, and depending on what Morrison says Magneto is responsible for -- engineer everything from Feng Tu prison and the monastery to possibly Weapon Plus and the U-Men.

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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Post by Nightcrawler ZERO »

Originally posted by Rivka
I am simply at a loss to explain his more recent Morrison-fanaticism. Except maybe he being a DC type of guy, ...............

Rivka
Or maybe he just wants to keep his job...........


What's this I'm hearing about Jean going around raising the dead? If so, this may even be worse damage than is done to Magneto- If Jean can walk around raising the dead, then she is a useless character, as having heraround removes the sense of risk from the stories. This means that she Must either lose the Phoenix powers or Fly off into space, never to return.......

Hopefully, before she does either she'll bring back a certain steel skinned soviet that Morisson wanted to write...........
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Post by Rivka »

Re what you said. Nah... I don't think MAgs did it. Or if he did, something is controlling him and my bet is good ol Cassandra Nova. if he were in the mansion and a confidant of Xavier's as we were led to believe, then he musta known of her existance in the cellar..and who she was and what she did. If she did not have some control on him, he would have killed Her! For sure! Since she was responsible for the death of sixteen million of his people...whom he was responsible for...having made Genosha the land of milk and honey for mutants...and supposedly a safe harbor.
This is the only logical way to explain Magneto's current attitude towards Cassandra Nova. I just answered someone in another venue, who was all excited because he now buys the theory that Ernst is Cassandra Nova, and has been converted to the side of GOOD which is XAVIER THE SAINT, and will help defeat that evil old Magneto.

Not only could I not believe that any X-Men reader would buy this plot, but I also became sick to my stomach thinking Morrison might actually be heading in this direction!

Anyway, it makes no sense if he does, and it is an outrageous violation of this magnificent character, Magneto.

As you say, the only logical thing is, if Cassandra Nova escaped into Ernst a while back, she is conscious, she's controlling Magneto, she's making him act like this monsterous puppet, and it's all to destroy Xavier once and for all. Destroy everything he loves, hopes for, stands for, and destroy Magneto too -- who she knows could possibly one day become a leader of the X-Men a-la the Age of Apocalypse. The only reason Magneto would NOT immediately destroy Cassandra Nova in that blobby mutant she merged with , is that Cassandra is controlling him. The only reason Magneto has never once said anything about Cassandra Nova destroying Genosha, and instead is rattling on and on about humans destroying Genosha when he knows good and well they didn't -- is that Cassandra Nova is controlling him, and of course the very absence of any mention of her is a clue.

At least to anyone who has half an ounce of creative imagination and sense and storytelling skills. Which Morriosn used to have, but left outside the door when he started writing NEW X-MEN.

If Morrison actually goes with this, I'll take back every bad thing I've said about him. But evidence points to Magneto being used as a mindless monster in this quasi-Silver Age farce called "Planet X."

the whole problem with Magneto's history the last several years was that Hardass was bound and determined to make him a total badass villain with no socially redeeming qualities. We don't know why hardass had this vendetta against one of the few Jewish superdoops...but we can guess at rampant prejudice of some kind...racial, ethnic, whatever...for such a pervasive attack on the character for so many years against the howls of the readers, polls and even the dogged determination of writers and artists to rescue Mags from him, points to a deep seated hatred. and the only kind of hatred that generates such longstanding efforts is some sort of bigotry. I would like to think that this kind of thing couldn't hold sway at a place like Marvel...but evidence seems to suggest otherwise.
What she said. And there is evidence.
Now, the whole of Magneto's actions during the better part of the last decade...during the Hardass years and even into the Quesada years... are suspect...are inconsistant with what had been established before and , in my view, totally invalid as canon. Building on this shifting sand without first digging down to the bedrock of Chris's characterization is asking for trouble and only compounding the confusion. We need someone to go in and make sense of all this crap and wretched storytelling and it doesn't seem like anyone at marvel is interested...or, indeed, up to the task.
We need someone -- some editors and writers and artists -- to restore Magneto in a way that respects his past, his psychological complexity, his unique position as a villain-hero. What you ask above -- if Marvel heard you -- their answer would be, *Okay, we'll clean up this mess, we'll just retcon his entire history away and make him a total cypher and make him the way we want and the hell with Chris Claremont and Magneto's Holocaust history*
I still think the solution is to have the Beast have had a bad pizza dream after the events in X Men 3...and start over from there. Simplistic, I know...but boy! would it get rid of all that crap!
Paty
It could happen, if you believe miracles can happen. If I bought Marvel tomorrow, (or some rich husband bought it for me) the first order I'd give would be, everything from Cassandra Nova on (and maybe even before) is an alternate timeline and then I'd ask the writers to come up with some good ideas as to why the timeline split.

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Post by Rivka »

What's this I'm hearing about Jean going around raising the dead? If so, this may even be worse damage than is done to Magneto- If Jean can walk around raising the dead, then she is a useless character, as having heraround removes the sense of risk from the stories. This means that she Must either lose the Phoenix powers or Fly off into space, never to return.......

Oh, Morrison uses plot-device slight of hand to solve the problem of painting himself into a corner. Which is one of the chief complaints some of us, including Paty, have been voicing.

I mean, you're right of course! Morrison had Jean manifesting Phoenix powers and playing plot-device to conveniently revive Emma Frost who was "killed" during a mystery storyarc. Arc over, can't think of any other way to get Emma back, have Jean just happen to be around at the right time, manifest Phoenix powers of life and death, and put Emma back together again.

But Morrison, realizing that once you creaet a plot device, you might be obligated to use it in a consistent way, wrote his way out of that corner in NXM #148. [spoiler]He has Jean and Wolverine dying together on some faux Asteroid M, and now Jean is helpless. She now explains, she can NOT manifest the Phoenix powers when she wants, and now they have to die together, because she can't do anything about their predicament. See, plot device #1 is defused, and Morrison makes Jean ready to become Phoenix plot device #2. Wolverine dramatically stabs her with his claws (they're going to die together in the sun, so kill her first so she doesn't suffer), so that Wolverine and Jean can dramatically walk into the sun, and Jean can be revived as the Phoenix, just in time to rescue Wolverine, get back to earth, and kill the monster, Magneto.[/spoiler]

Yay, aren't plot devices wonderful. Except you might say, Jean Grey struggling with her Phoenix powers once was a compelling character, and her powers once worked consistently within the context of the story, not when the writer needed them to get himself out of the corner he'd painted himself into.
Hopefully, before she does either she'll bring back a certain steel skinned soviet that Morisson wanted to write...........

Oooh, what a cool idea. Morrison Phoenix plot device can do anything the writer wants her to do, or become as helpless as a kitten when he wants her to. So, if a writer wants to bring back Piotr, what a cool idea! Heck, while we're at it, how about bringing back Betsy too! What drama -- another Scott Summers would-be girlfriend, needing to be resurrected.

Sorry for my cynical tone. But, you did catch on to Morrison's slight of hand, and that inspired me to express myself. :-)
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Post by Dark Bamf »

What the hell, why not bring back Thunderbird, too? :P:LOL

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Post by Northstars Love »

That maybe too late Dave. 27 years has passed. Kinda be scary at that point:eek

Oh...a new comic idea :idea All the dead X-Men come back to life and form their own group!

What do you think? We'll let Morrison write it! :LMAO
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Post by Nightcrawler ZERO »

And we shal call it.....................................

X-CORPSE!!!!!!!!!!

(Dragged away by the pun police)
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Post by Northstars Love »

:nodyes I like the name! It works! X-CORPSE. Hell, the group not only would have their powers but just to look at them would be horrifying enough:faint
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Post by Tatu »

Oh no! Another telepath for Scott to sleep with! "Today On Jerry Springer..."



Hey! theres another plot! Scott hits on Besty, Besty kick his ass, Psylocke Vs Jean..and then Jean can die..and become Phoenix...again!

:rolleyes

Say Rivka, Can you find a way to bring Dazzler back to popularity too?
Originally posted by Rivka

Heck, while we're at it, how about bringing back Betsy too! What drama -- another Scott Summers would-be girlfriend, needing to be resurrected.
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Post by Yma »

Heh heh, bringing back all the dead X-men... that's almost a good idea.
But, surely, wouldn't the Ex-men be a better name? :D
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Post by sevati »

Originally posted by Yma
Heh heh, bringing back all the dead X-men... that's almost a good idea.
But, surely, wouldn't the Ex-men be a better name? :D
I don't know about you, but to me the name 'Ex-men' screams "sex change!" to me. I wouldn't mind seeing Remy or Angel in female form though.. teehee.

Oh Bunny.. ahem. Could you see Logan being/doing that joke you told me about a bull-dyke and a motorcycle? That's an odd mental-image.
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Post by Rivka »

Originally posted by Dark Bamf
What the hell, why not bring back Thunderbird, too? :P:LOL

:bamf
Awesome. Dave has started something here. :)

Remember, Phoenix can do anything. :)


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Post by Rivka »

Originally posted by **Northstars Love**
That maybe too late Dave. 27 years has passed. Kinda be scary at that point:eek

Oh...a new comic idea :idea All the dead X-Men come back to life and form their own group!

What do you think? We'll let Morrison write it! :LMAO

LOL! (And I really did laugh out loud.) What a great idea!

And Thunderbird, heck, Phoenix can do a "Monkey's Paw" just for the fun of it. Oh the hijinks at the X-Mansion when Thunderbird's rotting corpse approaches. Then Phoenix will say, it was all a joke, and restore him to his prime.

Or if Morrison is writing it --

Page 1:
First panel: a long-shot of zombie Thunderbird dragging himself towards the ruins of the X-Mansion.
Second panel -- Phoenix: "hmmmm."
Panels 3,4, and 5: : X-Men staring at the sky while Phoenix effect flames dance around them.

Page 2:
Several more panels with close-ups of X-Men staring at each other.

Page 3:
First panel: the mansion is completely restored.
Second panel: a completely alive and normal-looking Thunderbird is sitting at Xavier's desk smiling.
Panels 3,4, and 5: close-ups of X-Men standing around the X-Mansion garden, picking flowers.

Page 4:
Entire page: Emma Frost: "Darling."

Page 5:
Entire page: Thunderbird: "The time has come."

Page 6:
Entire page: Jean: "What will be, will be."


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Post by Rivka »

Originally posted by Nightcrawler ZERO
And we shal call it.....................................

X-CORPSE!!!!!!!!!!
Perfect.

Marvel Solicitation:

X-CORPSE!

The All New All Deceased X-Men, brought back by the MYSTERIOUS PHOENIX! What is the purpose of the MYSTERIOUS PHOENIX? Who are these dead mutants? Why has PHOENIX summoned them from their graves? Follow the adventures of Colossus, Psylocke, Thunderbird, Doug, Maggot's slug, Pyro, Darkstar, and Bucky as they fight for a world that runs from them, screaming into the night!

Special First Issue: Guest-starring: (in no particular order)

Many Acolytes
Most of the Morlocks
Destiny
Katherine Summers
Risque
Various Externals
The Asparagus People

and

in a special appearance:


Zaladane! (Looking like a pincushion but hey, there is only so much a PHOENIX FORCE can do.)

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Post by Panz »

:LOL:LOL:LOL "The Undead X-Men" have them as noir, effete, beatnick-esque vampires...too jaded to care about the silly dream any more...

Goddess! how dreadful :P just sound SO Morrison....am I being catty????????????
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Post by kladyelf »

Dark Bamf:

What the hell, why not bring back Thunderbird, too?
________________________________

Ooh mate, don't tempt me, i had a plot bunny the other week suggest he be brought back as a 'replicant' (cloney thing) and 'owned' by a bunch of evil scientists who kidnap Nightcrawler... explaining the gap in time (fic! bad fic! *smacks self* - excuse me i must exorcise my Mary Sue....)

____________________________________


NightcrawlerZero

And we shal call it.....................................

X-CORPSE!!!!!!!!!!

(Dragged away by the pun police)

___________________________________

eep! *hides from the pun police)

_________________________________

sevati:

I don't know about you, but to me the name 'Ex-men' screams "sex change!" to me. I wouldn't mind seeing Remy or Angel in female form though.. teehee.

Oh Bunny.. ahem. Could you see Logan being/doing that joke you told me about a bull-dyke and a motorcycle? That's an odd mental-image.

_____________________________________

actually that has been done sev, but only in jest, in Milleniuum Visions, click on the following link if you don't believe me....

http://www.bamfcentral.com/index.asp

apparrently they got zapped by some weird ray, operated by a monkey... which somehow makes more sense than what i'm hearing about online!

*continues to read*

whoah, is Dazzler and risque dead?? when did this happen?

...


aw Panz now why did'ja have to post that? now i can't get Thunderbird outta my brain, wearing a vampire cloak, fish net stockings, and stilettos... i think i'd better leave before he starts to sing....
:p
:lol
:)
meddle not in the affairs of ficcers for you are malleable and easily .... O_o *stares* ooh is that a cookie?

Love your enemies - It will drive them nuts!

Crazy.... but in the nicest possible way....

To Stupidityyyyy - and beyond!

*after reading the latest gory/depressing "mainstream" comic* ....*sigh* that's it, I'm packin' up and moving back to the Eighties...
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Paty
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Post by Paty »

:mags:
Hmmm...ressurect Thunderbird as a "Spirit bird" the essence of the bird nature spirit. He could be a sort of a male phoenix...and he and the female Phoenix would naturally either clash or be attracted to each other...like to like...
Hmmmm...I like it...
Thunderbird never left a rotting corpse...he was blown into a million pieces in the explosion of the plane...so he could be coalesced from the aether...all you need is a little PHOENIX FORCE...

In the X Men...
AUUUUGGGGHHHHH...
paty
:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
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:magneto
Siona
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Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 6:38 pm
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Post by Siona »

Hey, this is the friggen' X-Men for cripes' sake; we have, what, three Alien races, cities destroyed on a daily basis that seem to pop up like mushrooms the next day, and new and more dangerous mutants every day...and they have yet to take over the Earth.

The difference between fact and fiction?

Fiction makes more sense. :rolleyes

~Siona
You cannot stop me. You cannot destroy me. For I am the cockroach of looove.

"Ah, young love. Stupid pencils."
-- SheCat.
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