The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Bamfette » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:45 pm

I realize the sales will drop. What I am saying though is that this is a GOOD STARTING POINT. Better than anything we've had in a long time. New Avengers debut was only 129,084 about a year ago, and that was one of the biggest debut issues in the past couple years. This is potentially more than double that. If Justice League is selling out not just once but twice AND that is after shops have had a chance to see how well it sells, (they wouldn't have placed new orders with Diamond if they had dozens still sitting on the shelf) that means the second issue will probably have to drop from the 300k+ mark. This is the highest starting point we've had for YEARS.
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Crawler » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:37 am

I tend to agree...with both of you.

Are the numbers on the #1's inflated? Probably. Even if they sell out, will there be a drop? Almost definitely. However, starting from 300k on the #1 is much better than starting at, say, 50k. Even if Justice League drops 66%, an unheard of drop, and exceptionally unlikely due to the sellout, it will be above 100k on the #2. Even THAT number is extremely rare in comics these days.

That said, I really don't think the numbers on the #1's are inflated by "prospecting." The collector speculation scene is gone and I don't think there are enough people speculating on the future value of these comics to make a dent in the numbers. They're probably inflated by "guesstimations" and they'll probably lose some new readers right off the bat. A lot of people are not consistent or habitual enough to visit the comic store every week...and if you're only reading one comic out of the lot or if your comics all happen to come out the same week each month, you might only visit once a month. Once a month things tend to fall through the cracks.

As I said (in this thread or elsewhere, I don't remember now), the numbers on the #3's and #4's will be the most telling and accurate numbers. I personally fully expect them to still be higher than normal for non-stunt, non-#1 comics. Until then, just roll with it, enjoy it. Don't worry if it will last forever. It won't. Nothing does. But it will last long enough to enjoy it...and once it's out there, they can't take it back. ;)
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:44 pm

*Gives a quiet "yay." because at least the Francis Manapul Flash teasers look really awesome...*

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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Wahnsinn » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:04 am

Crawler wrote:I tend to agree...with both of you.

I don't think Bamfette and I actually disagree so much as we express ourselves differently, creating a mild communication hiccup. ;)

Are the numbers on the #1's inflated? Probably. Even if they sell out, will there be a drop? Almost definitely. However, starting from 300k on the #1 is much better than starting at, say, 50k. Even if Justice League drops 66%, an unheard of drop, and exceptionally unlikely due to the sellout, it will be above 100k on the #2. Even THAT number is extremely rare in comics these days.

Total drops that big do happen (deservedly in the case of Wolverine: The Best There Is), but you're right that it's highly unlikely to drop that far by #2. JL's got a decent chance of holding above 100k if the story's good enough. I haven't read it yet, but the hubby was less than impressed. The amount of talk I'm seeing of it being a somewhat weak opening issue is slightly worrying.


That said, I really don't think the numbers on the #1's are inflated by "prospecting." The collector speculation scene is gone and I don't think there are enough people speculating on the future value of these comics to make a dent in the numbers. They're probably inflated by "guesstimations" and they'll probably lose some new readers right off the bat. A lot of people are not consistent or habitual enough to visit the comic store every week...and if you're only reading one comic out of the lot or if your comics all happen to come out the same week each month, you might only visit once a month. Once a month things tend to fall through the cracks.

I think it's a bit of both. The speculators haven't had a reason to be around for years. The rebooting of the DCU is a darn good reason, as opposed to a simple renumbering/relaunch of an ongoing story.

You're definitely right about the habit end of it. While it's a non-issue for digital customers, using up one's precious gas for a trip to the comic shop for a $3-4 comic book will turn some off. This is probably one reason why it might've been smart to release more than just JL #1 that first week, allowing for the purchase of more than one book to check out for the new people. Some aren't going to be terribly inclined to make more than one trip in a month just to see what all the fuss is about. Those new people planning to return for only JL #2 probably won't be following the latest release news and will just show up in exactly a month, only to be informed that what they seek doesn't come out until October 21. The last thing DC needs to do right now is risk annoying new people with a funky release schedule.

As I said (in this thread or elsewhere, I don't remember now), the numbers on the #3's and #4's will be the most telling and accurate numbers. I personally fully expect them to still be higher than normal for non-stunt, non-#1 comics. Until then, just roll with it, enjoy it. Don't worry if it will last forever. It won't. Nothing does. But it will last long enough to enjoy it...and once it's out there, they can't take it back. ;)

The starts of second story arcs (#4-7, depending on arc length) will be a good place to look as well, just to see how many arc-trial types stick around. Without knowing how the books are being received, it's hard to say what kind of levels they'll find. Some will probably be higher, though. What I'd ultimately like to see is overall sales for multiple publishers creep upward, meaning this event managed to pull in enough curious new people to make a sustainable difference to the industry as a whole. :)
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Crawler » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:01 am

Quick reviews for the first week in order of preference (minus two titles I couldn't read...yet):

1. Swamp Thing - Get it. Scott Snyder is awesome. Even if you don't care about Swampy (I don't), it's worth picking up.

2. Men of War - Get it. My second favorite of the week. Beautifully written, very interesting, even if you don't like war stuff (I don't). Huge surprise for me.

3. Batgirl - Definitely worth the read. Babs is rounded and real and this is the best superhero comic I've read in a while.

4. Action Comics - The Superman I've always wanted to read about. The characters are round, the situation interesting, the setup clear, the title warranted.

4b. Animal Man - Starts slow. Big payoff at the end. Very grounded in routine life, yet also a supernatural horror book. Would be higher on the list any other week of the year.

4c. Batwing - Unique spin on the Batman mythos archetype with central African backdrop. Best artwork of the week, very nice writing.

7. Stormwatch - Stumbles a little out of the gate, shows great potential. Should be a really fun read when it doesn't feel the need to explain itself.

8. Detective Comics - Great artwork (except one page), decent writing, shockingly awesome ending. Will be picking up a second issue. Didn't think I would.

Also Ran. Justice League International - Self serving and clumsily written. Team members are nationalities and nothing else. Team shown to be inept. Ongoing threat shown to be inept. Batman commits Grand Theft Superteam by accident. Nice art, though. Pass.

Threw A Shoe. OMAC - Nice enough artwork. Poor storytelling. Utterly flat characters. Misspelled words.

Sent to Glue Factory. Hawk and Dove - Writing matches the artwork perfectly. Crooked faces, gritted teeth, porn faces, stilted dialogue, forced background info, lots of screaming for no reason. Weak all around.
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Slarti » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:16 am

Scott's got several of these on his pull list, but we probably won't pick them up at the LCS for a while. However, when he does, I might read them.

Or I might just make him log on here and post for once. :P

But the real reason I'm posting now is because I saw commercials on the SyFy channel today for the reboot. I've never seen that before - TV commercials for comics? Crazy talk, I say!

Yes, yes, smart on DC's part to reach broader audience, blah, blah, blah. I know. It's still funky to see an ad made up entirely of shots of comic art. :P
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Bamfette » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:40 am

yeah, I've seen that ad! they also have billboards and posters up, and banner ads, holy shit, the banner ads are EVERYWHERE. I am not sure if the TV spot they have out right now is the most effective draw for non-comics fans... but they are obviously doing SOMETHING right... comiXology has said Justice League set a record for issues sold (what exact number that means is anybody's guess, however)
and EVERY SINGLE ONE of the first week's books has sold out at the distributor level, and I am hearing of shops selling out completely in an hour or so. So, clearly DC is doing something right. But the shops constantly running out is... problematic for new fans. Someone like us, who knows how these things work, will tell the shop owner to add the issue to our pull list, or maybe get it digital just to make sure you don't miss part of the story (assuming you are primarily a paper type of person, I'm going full on digital anyway)but a new fan may just not come back at all. It's up to the retailers to explain to anyone disappointed to find the book they were after is gone to push a pull list and explain that they will get more copies.


Anyway, my ranking would go something like this:

1 - Swamp Thing
2 - Animal Man
3 - Action Comics
(and here's where it gets tough the next few are basically tied in my head)
4 - Men of War
5 - Batgirl
6 - Stormwatch
7 - Batwing
8 - Detective
9 - Justice League
10 - JLI
11 - Hawk and Dove
12 - OMAC
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby The Drastic Spastic » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:48 am

Hopping on the band wagon, which required actually reading all of these number 1s. I generally wait until something has been coming out for years (or is even finished) before I read it so this was a different kind of experience.

1. Detective Comics
2. Swamp Thing
3. Batgirl
4. Animal Man
5. Batwing
6. Action Comics
7. Men of War
8. Justice League
9. Justice League International
10. Stormwatch
11. OMAC
12. Hawk and Dove

I was surprised by my #1. I think it's because I played Arkham Asylum about a month ago and this feels like a continuation of that. Awesome game.

Stormwatch is awful. Jumps all over the place and introduces way too many characters and situations. I was totally lost and I'm not even a true newbie. I read The Authority ages ago, though I didn't particularly like it and barely remember it. Maybe it's just not my kind of book, but this was still the least newbie friendly one of the lot by a wide margin. You're definitely expected to know who these people are. They all have the exact same personality too. (Cocky and grating.)

It was still not in last place though.
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Crawler » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:09 am

I kinda agree with you about Stormwatch. I won't say it was awful because I still want to see where it's going, unlike OMAC, Hawk and Dove, and JLI, of which I didn't even want to finish the first issue. Part of it, I know, is having read Cornell before and knowing he's a slow starter, and the rose glasses of fandom. Stormwatch tried to do too much. I'm hoping that when it settles in it'll be what I hoped for for Apollo and Midnighter.
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Bamfette » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:50 am

One thing that encourages me about the future of Stormwatch is that they're getting a new artist. holy shit, the art bugged me, the new artist is much better and has worked on The Authority and a Martian Manhunter series.

I can see in hindsight how they could seem to have the same voice. I think once Apollo calms down he at least will sound different, I know that Cornell gets his character, from things he's said. When not being hounded by people trying to recruit him when he just wants t be left alone, he's a pretty nice, easy going guy. And now Midnighter is there, which should bring it out more. Midnighter has also always had a very distinct voice, and I can't see that Cornell wouldn't have picked up on it and brought i over. it's part of the reason he was so popular (on the Wildstorm scale of popularity anyway). But he barely spoke this issue s we couldn't see it. I thought The Projectionist had a distinct voice, but her 'this is how my powers work' dialogue irritated me.

It did try to do too much. I think it should have started slower, focused more on one thing at a time. We will still have jumping around over the next couple issues as Apollo is still on the loose, and all... but I think Cornell should fall into his groove. The first issue of Knight and Squire was hard to follow and hectic as hell, too, but it ended up being a great series. Unfortunately a poor start is not good in comics...

oh! btw. more sales news.

So. it turns out that Action Comics has officially cracked the 200k mark, and all books in the first 2 weeks have sold out as well, and are going back for reprints. Now we're up to 10 books from the relaunch over 100k in pre-orders.

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2011/09/12 ... k-of-2011/

[Edited on 13/9/11 by Bamfette]
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Crawler » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:05 am

And on another note, this Wednesday's lineup:

Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E.
Demon Knights
Batwoman
Grifter
Red Lanterns
Resurrection Man
Suicide Squad
Batman and Robin
Green Lantern
Legion Lost
Mister Terrific
Superboy
Deathstroke

That's pretty much the order of my anticipation, since I just stole it off my spreadsheet. (Yes, I am such a nerd that I have a spreadsheet of the New 52.) Basically, everything below Red Lanterns I just am not that interested in. I'll give Resurrection Man a chance on concept. At one point I wanted to read Suicide Squad, but that writer's FlashPoint book was nearly unreadable for me because of my particular tastes. It's only in the middle of the pack because I'm still interested in Harley and the concept.

Frankenstein is on top for pretty much the same reason: the Flashpoint Frankenstein was pretty darned good and it's the same writer here. Also, it's basically a team made up the Universal Monsters crew, which I've always had a soft spot for.

Superboy and Deathstroke are at the bottom for being egregiously 1993. Superboy is Scott Lobdell and Deathstrok is, well...this.
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Crawler » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:27 am

Quick and dirty reviews, New 52, Week 2, in the order that I read them (my rankings are at the bottom of this post):

Suicide Squad - Poorly written, resorts to stereotypes, relies on infodump-style exposition, and is offensive on at least two counts, with an abused woman seeking out the abuse and a Hispanic character speaking (poor) Spanish randomly and being an (overtly stereotypical) gang member.

Deathstroke - This is comics. If there was ever a medium in which the first rule of storytelling - "Show, don't tell." - should apply absolutely, it's comics. Deathstroke relies on telling. Beyond that, it resorts to cliches on almost every page and is self-congratulatory. Not as bad as JLI was, but it's there. Also, I'm a 30-year-old misanthropic loner and I apparently have much more contact and familiarity with young people than the writer, as the ones in this book are absolutely unreadable, unrealistic constructed caricatures of "youth." It doesn't help that they're all the same bad caricature. There's also a very definite line between "badass" and "psychotic." This portrayal of Deathstroke dives straight into the latter.

Batman and Robin - Damn. Now I'm going to be reading THREE Batman books. This one stands as a stark counterpoint to the writing in Deathstroke. Nothing is flat out told, but everything is made clear through the events and dialogue. Immediately you get a sense of who the characters are and how they relate to each other. Damian doesn't sound ten, but his voice is so well-developed and clear that you immediately know that it's purposeful. You know that it's not badly done, he's just an odd kid. The battle dialogue is a little lacking, but the rest is good enough to overlook it. The big threat has no contact with the title characters, yet is established extremely well, too.

Superboy - See above about "Show. Don't tell." The first three or four pages made me hopeful. The rest let me down. I'd also like to point out that there's a very important difference between mystery and obfuscation. Mystery is good storytelling. Obfuscation is bad storytelling. This has the latter. There's also an inordinate amount of unneeded expository dialogue and captions of the infodump type, which only serve to highlight the obfuscation. It also ends with, essentially, an ad for Lobdell's other book, implying forced handcuff status on the two books, which, frankly, I resent because of the promises made to eliminate crossovers in the new DCU. But worst of all? All of that PLUS I found it incredibly boring. I won't be reading a second issue.

Legion Lost - First, we've been assured that there is no back door to or knowledge of the prior DCU. This mentions Flashpoint. Sadly, it gets worse from there. I will say that I've never read a single issue of Legion in my life, but this is REALLY not new reader friendly. I don't need or want explanations, but it's still the creators' responsibility to keep new people from being lost. The dialogue is exceptionally painful and plentiful, the plot seems to be based on a huge plot hole, and there is a huge number of made-up words that come without explanation. Ironically, it's also full of explanation through expository dialogue. On a personal note, made-up swear words are a giant pet peeve of mine, and there's a bunch of them here. This one not only doesn't get a second issue, but gets returned. I don't even want it in my house. I would rather read Hawk and Dove again.

Green Lantern - Not really new-reader-friendly, but not as bad as Legion Lost, since there are far fewer characters. To someone that doesn't follow GL religiously, it's confusing mostly because the plot relies on prior events that aren't adequately explained. Still, you can follow along okay. I felt like I was missing something, but didn't feel completely lost. It doesn't feel like a first issue or, really, a start of any kind. It feels like a continuation. Worse, it feels like a middle issue in which little happens, like a pad-out-the-story-to-length issue. However, it's not bad. I just found it very monotone and "meh." It's very middling, but I might give it a second issue just because I like Sinestro as a character.

Red Lanterns - This didn't really feel like a first issue, either. It's a prologue. Milligan went to great lengths to explain the history and the setup of the Red Lantern Corps, and I can't really blame him for that, though I don't much care for the method he used. Lots and lots of telling, though there's a fair bit of showing, too. But it's almost all backstory, so you're not there because it's already happened. It's not particularly riveting, though it is interesting to those interested, and it clears the way for him to do whatever he wants with this book, hopefully. This one will get a second issue out of me on potential.

Mr. Terrific - This book has a very appealing sense of humor. At 4 pages in, I already liked it because of that. All in all, it was a pretty good read. I didn't come to really care about the characters, but it held my interest and didn't make me groan. The writing isn't perfect, but it's good, and the dialogue was really good. Race was dealt with fairly deftly, and the science only extended into pseudo-jargon a few times. I'm really wary that this book could collapse into being unreadable, but I'll give the second issue a shot.

Resurrection Man - It was better than I expected. It's a novel premise and the story was well told, with a few good hooks. The internal monologue boxes were used to good effect. A little rough and tumble, but worth the read. This one will all come down to your personal tastes, I think. I'll be reading #2.

Grifter - The big surprise for me this week. I really enjoyed how the setup was handled, and though I've never given a crap about Grifter before, I found myself really interested in the character situation here. The writing wasn't perfect, and there were a few art problems, but it's a good one overall. I'll definitely be picking up a second issue and can't see myself dropping it until at least the first arc is done.

Demon Knights - Everywhere that Cornell's other book, Stormwatch failed, this one shines. No explanatory dialogue, all the characters have distinct personalities, everything's pretty clear, and it has DINOSAURS. I dunno if it's the best of the week, but it's my favorite so far. The art is great and the writing is well done and interesting. Highly recommended. DINOSAURS.

Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. - This one was really, really fun. It suffers a little from having a whole lot to introduce, but still was a really great read. As with quite a few of these books, I think that it'll really hit its stride after getting the intro out of the way here, and should be one of my can't miss books. Even if it doesn't, and it stays at exactly this level of quality, it will be one of the best books DC puts out each month. The art is a little unusual, but it reminds me of the old school Vertigo stuff, just as Animal Man did. Recommended! MONSTERS.

I have yet to read Batwoman, but it was unavailable, so I'll be reading it tomorrow. But for now, my rankings are:

The Good:
1. Demon Knights
2. Batman and Robin
3. Frankenstein
4. Grifter

The Okay:
5. Resurrection Man
6. Mr. Terrific
7. Red Lanterns

The Skippable:
8. Green Lantern
9. Superboy

The Awful:
10. Suicide Squad
11. Deathstroke
12. Legion Lost

Yet to be read:
Batwoman

[Edited on 9-15-2011 by Crawler]
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Bamfette » Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:28 pm

I will be back tomorrow or later today with some more to say on the individual issues. I am tired so keeping this brief:

Liked:
Demon Knights
Frankenstein
Batman and Robin
Grifter
Resurrection Man

On the Fence:
Red Lanterns
Green Lantern

Didn't Like:
Superboy
Deathstroke
Suicide Squad
Legion Lost

(yes, Crawler and I have very similar tastes)


also more good news from retaiers:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/retaile ... 10916.html

If these retailers are anything to judge by, orders may actually go UP for some of the second issues.
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Bamfette » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:25 am

aaaaand it's back to the printers for Justice League YET AGAIN.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/19/ ... -league-1/

I think it's likely creeping up on the half a million mark, now. It may even beat the Obama issue of Spider-Man.

Of course, with the high demand we have shit like this: http://www.stadiumcomics.com/2011/09/19 ... e-to-help/

This right here is part of the reason the comics industry is in such poor shape. Bad retailers.

*edit - I just did a little digging. If Justice League can sell more than 501k comics in the direct market, then it beats the Obama issue of Spider-Man, which then makes Justice League the best selling single issue of a comic since at least 2001.

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14314.html
plus the reprints from February brings it to the half a million mark. That's what DC has to beat.

We know the first print sold around 200k. It's now on it's 4th reprint.... so I'm thinking that's a real possibility. Keep in mind that Justice League was released on the last day of the month, so we will have to add together the numbers for it from August and September, when they release those figures.

[Edited on 20/9/11 by Bamfette]
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby The Drastic Spastic » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:19 am

I was less-enthused about the selection this week, not sure if that is just my mood or what.

Good
1. Batman and Robin
2. Frankenstein
3. Red Lanterns

Okay
4. Green Lantern
5. Batwoman - This book is just not my style. Feels flighty and unfocused.
6/7. Resurrection Man/Grifter - Honestly, I'm having a lot of trouble remembering which is which. Too many similarities between these two this week.

Meh
8. Mr. Terrific - meh
9. Suicide Squad - meh
10. Superboy - meh

Hate
11. Legion Lost - What the hell is going on here. Wait, don't tell me, I don't care.
12. Demon Knights - Ditto.
13. Deathstroke - Flashback to 1991!

Legion Lost was actually better than I was expecting. I have read some Legion before. I read two years worth of biweekly issues. It was a lot worse than this so at least they're trying, bless them.

Had no idea Demon Knights was a thing around here. Gave it a reread, still didn't get it.
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:02 pm

Interesting new update:

DC has hired a survey company called Nielson NPG about comic book sales and feedback from readers.

Also has anyone else noticed the breast size of a lot of female characters has been severely scaled back with the new 52?

With the exception of the usual (and almost--dare I say -- necessary) busty broads, Catwoman & Starfire, it seems like other girls (Batgirl/Supergirl/Wonder Woman even) have been generously downgraded a Cup-size at the least.

I am very happy to see that.

==EDIT FOR GLORY==

However, I just finished Red Hood & The Outlaws, and I'm horrified at their depiction of Starfire. Catwoman's title is understandably over the top in sexuality, her character is notorious for being a "sensual" lady who uses her wiles to get close to you and steal your possessions. Starfire?
To be completely blunt here, comes off as a total slut. And it's horrifyingly reminiscent of the late 80's early 90's attempt to grab young boys into comics again.
Near-bare breasts, gleaming in the sun while coming out of the water? Forgetting who she has made love to? Or just plain fucked perhaps?

I think DC is doing some things right here and dropping the ball on others. They're gonna have to scramble to get back some lost female-fans after that.

And yes, this is something I notice. ;)


Also from what I've read:

Catwoman very good, but I once again feel like nothing has changed, so what's with the reboot other than to get new readers?

Supergirl worth reading issue 2. Not tremendous, but I'd give it a shot. Thankfully the g/f is purchasing these titles. :toothy

Wonder Woma Flat out terrible Didn't even finish it. It's visually for guys, and it's written for crazy people. I had no idea what was going on, there is very little sense to be made of the internal monologues of the characters.

Action Comics Not bad. Not great. Morrison is giving us an interesting start. I'm not sure if I like it yet, but I'm not throwing the issue into the burner quite yet either. Another "give it an issue" to read.

Demon Knights Was pretty cool. Nicely separated from the rest of the DCnU. Clean. Would like to see more development in the next issue though, and I'm afraid I can't stick with it if I don't get that.

Batman & Robin Absolute trash. They could do much better. I expect to see some major changes with this book. From what I'm reading this and a couple others have the worst responses thus far from readers/reviewers.


That's all I've read so far so... hopefully Flash & Superman are awesome. We'll see.


[Edited on 28/9/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:47 am

I'm very confused about some of the timelining with this whole reboot.

-Barry gets back as Flash, having "resolved" the Flashpoint issues and talks to Batman about having met his father (who was Batman in the Flashpoint debacle), and Bruce even receives a letter from his (Currently in the DCnU) dead father.

-But Batman starts with Bruce sort of breaking in as Batman, doing early work and finding things out for the first time. The Gotham PD seems to still be adapting/learning to work with him.

-In Detective Comics, Bruce/Gordon have an established relationship. The ususal stuff, Bruce disappears over the ledge (as Batman) and Gordon's still talking to himself. When he realizes it the usual (and always funny) "*Tsk* one day I should do that to him and see how he likes it" type shtick.

-Batgirl starts at, what I'm assuming, that point or thereabouts, with Barry returning to current time. But she is going to be featuring Nightwing who is

-also currently in Florida (or so the first issue summary said in the promos).

-Meanwhile Tim is looking back fondly at once being Robin but appears now to live in a Luthor's apartment complex and is now seeking out other "Metahumans" (as they are now being so fashionably called) to form the Teen Titans. IN this group is NOT Cyborg (who is what, big people now?) it is some new unknown Wonder Girl, Kid-Flash (though no information as to whether it's Bart or Wally, if it is Wally that'd be strange but not unlikely), and now Superboy. Teen Titans is getting the "Young Justice" treatment where Superboy is going to be part of some program and used as a weapon against them (at first)

-But in Superboy, it seems to be years after this, and he seems to be somewhat aware of his origins.

-Supergirl seems to take place in "current day", with her landing in Nova Scocia or something like that and then fighting her Cousin out of confusion.

-But in Action Comics it appears Clark has just moved to the big city and isn't even aware of the fact that he can fly yet. He's flying around in jeans, a tee shirt, and a bath cloth for a cape. Then he and Lex had their first encounter.

-And in Superman he's back-to-basics with Jimmy, like they've been doing this "partners in journalism" shtick for years now.



And has anyone else noticed Spectre is keeping an eye on various super heroes? (or I'm assuming Spectre? But the person in the cloak is WHITE not Green... and in "Flash" #1 it appears this "figure" is a FEMALE)

In Flash #1, Teen Titans #1, (I'm told in Blue Beetle #1 and in Nightwing #1), as well as Demon Knights #1, are the titles I have seen the strange, white-cloaked, figure. I'm assuming it's Spectre... it's not like it's Moon Knight, y'know?

[Edited on 23/10/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Wahnsinn » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:19 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I'm very confused about some of the timelining with this whole reboot.

I shall try to help. :)


-Barry gets back as Flash, having "resolved" the Flashpoint issues and talks to Batman about having met his father (who was Batman in the Flashpoint debacle), and Bruce even receives a letter from his (Currently in the DCnU) dead father.

-But Batman starts with Bruce sort of breaking in as Batman, doing early work and finding things out for the first time. The Gotham PD seems to still be adapting/learning to work with him.

-In Detective Comics, Bruce/Gordon have an established relationship. The ususal stuff, Bruce disappears over the ledge (as Batman) and Gordon's still talking to himself. When he realizes it the usual (and always funny) "*Tsk* one day I should do that to him and see how he likes it" type shtick.

Is it possible you're confusing Batman with Justice League? Batman's got a fancy batcave with lots of vehicles, thinks about having encountered more than one Mr. Freeze, and chats with Gordon like they've been working together for quite some time in the former. In JL, which is currently set around 5 years in the past, Batman is still assumed to be nothing more than an urban legend.


-Batgirl starts at, what I'm assuming, that point or thereabouts, with Barry returning to current time. But she is going to be featuring Nightwing who is


-also currently in Florida (or so the first issue summary said in the promos).

Batgirl appears to be in the present, yes. The first two issues of Nightwing take place in Gotham and Atlantic City, but it's not yet clear exactly when that story takes place in relation to Batgirl. If he heads off to her rescue in #3, they're concurrent.


-Meanwhile Tim is looking back fondly at once being Robin but appears now to live in a Luthor's apartment complex and is now seeking out other "Metahumans" (as they are now being so fashionably called) to form the Teen Titans. IN this group is NOT Cyborg (who is what, big people now?) it is some new unknown Wonder Girl, Kid-Flash (though no information as to whether it's Bart or Wally, if it is Wally that'd be strange but not unlikely), and now Superboy. Teen Titans is getting the "Young Justice" treatment where Superboy is going to be part of some program and used as a weapon against them (at first)

Cyborg is a high school student being pursued by football scouts in JL #1-2, which likely means he's a senior, but still seems to need his dad for the purposes of signing paperwork. That should put him at 17, so he should be 22-ish in current time.


-But in Superboy, it seems to be years after this, and he seems to be somewhat aware of his origins.

No, it's slightly behind TT if anything. There's a spot in Superboy #2 where it's stated that he hasn't yet been sent after Red Robin.

-Supergirl seems to take place in "current day", with her landing in Nova Scocia or something like that and then fighting her Cousin out of confusion.

Correct.

-But in Action Comics it appears Clark has just moved to the big city and isn't even aware of the fact that he can fly yet. He's flying around in jeans, a tee shirt, and a bath cloth for a cape. Then he and Lex had their first encounter.


-And in Superman he's back-to-basics with Jimmy, like they've been doing this "partners in journalism" shtick for years now.

The current AC arc is set in the past, which is why he can't fly yet and doesn't have the Kryptonian armor. Superman is in the present.

[Edited on 24/10/11 by Wahnsinn]
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Re: The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:25 am

Interesting...


Appears there has been a fanmade Gender Swap in retaliation to Starfire's initial introduction in the New 52:
Image

A lot of heat came at DC for oversex'ing their female characters, Starfire's beach scene being the most significantly "in your face" over-sexing of the characters.
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Re: The Great 2011 DC Relaunch - 52 New #1's in September

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:15 am

Interesting new article about Wonder Woman comic from the perspective of a "feminist" or at least a very proactive-female-super hero-fan.

Wonder Woman starts to fall apart... as the changes to her origins get a bit drastic.

The formerly peace loving Amazons were shown to be succubi-like killers seducing sailors to get pregnant. No boy babies welcome. You know, like in some of the myths. But you know, not in like the comic book. Mostly.

Look I understand that the writer wants to tell a horror tale. I know the writer wants to get Wonder Woman closer to mythology.

But here’s the truth. The Amazons in the Wonder Woman comic were designed as a tribe of powerful woman. They and their most famous member are symbols for female empowerment. As my friend Kelly Thompson said just last week the Amazons of Wonder Woman and feminism are closely tied together with one almost being code for the other.

And that’s why it is so damn depressing to see the Amazons turned into war mongers, man haters, killers and/or depending what Earth they are on in the DCU, dead Amazons.
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