Ultimate X-Men General Discussion

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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:53 pm

By the way theres a preview for the Annual up at Buzzscope....and it's definately chock full or Kurt...if not a tad...confusing?
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Post by idsunki » Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:06 pm

Looks like it's just a flashback to his earlier ... ah ... profession.

Is anyone else as excited as me to see the origin of Professor X's cat?
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Post by Confizzle » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:03 pm

Originally posted by Diablo

Sorry, but you can't always expect people to like something without a bit of criticism. I've already dropped the title... which won't stop me from looking at it from time to time because of my love for the blue elf character. Which has been a really frustrating experience so far.

Like I said, it's probably a great book for the X-fans, but as a Nightcrawler fan, I'm really disappointed. Kurt never saves the day, and now he's a depressed homophobic mutant. Which is wrong. The ultimate line is supposed to capture the essence of the character we like. And poor Nightcrawler is reduced to a shadow of a role. I would'nt complain about it at X-Fan or Newsrama, but since it's Nightscrawlers here, it seems the right place to look at all the Kurt Wagner incarnations and discuss them in all freedom, mein freund.
You have your opinion -which I respect and won't attack-, I have mine, so please let us express ourselves freely, Ja ?

Isn't the point of the Ultimate universe to be a bit different from its 616 counterpart. I see no problem with Kurt being a homophobe at the moment, I mean he's 14, he just found out one of his best friends is gay, so it is a possible reaction. Just because 616 Kurt is the conducter on the "Tolerance Train" doesn't mean that Ultimate Kurt is.

Remeber 616 Kurt and Ult Kurt had different upbringings so it makes sense that they'd have different personalites.

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Post by Nandireya » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:40 am

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
Man you kids and your complaining! Most of my favorite Ultimate characters are already "dead" but I still take a look at the book! It's still pretty interesting.

But seriously, you want to drop a title? Drop it. Stop filling the threads with negative vibes for those who are still reading though. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but threats about dropping a title over speculation that at this time has NO merit is just counterproducitve.
Yeah...I know...I've been a bit of a Negative Nancy lately...my life's just been fairly sucky...it's why I haven't been posting a lot...don't want to bring anyone else down...jeez...I sound like Eeyore...

But poor Kurt…he’s got THAT lurking around in his subconscious? Hey! What if Kurt’s been implanted with some kind of post-hypnotic command by Weapon X…and they reactivate the X3 side of him? Maybe Kurt IS the betrayer, only not of his own free will…

[Edited on 30-8-2006 by Nandireya]
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:43 am

Originally posted by Nandireya

But poor Kurt…he’s got THAT lurking around in his subconscious? Hey! What if Kurt’s been implanted with some kind of post-hypnotic command by Weapon X…and they reactivate the X3 side of him? Maybe Kurt IS the betrayer, only not of his own free will…

[Edited on 30-8-2006 by Nandireya]
That's possible....we get to find out today!!!!

I still have my hopes for someone else though...please oh please!
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Post by Nandireya » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:51 am

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
That's possible....we get to find out today!!!!

I still have my hopes for someone else though...please oh please!
I won't get to see it until Saturday...

Even if it does turn out to be a reactivated Weapon X3, because he's not really at fault he could come back, Chuck could remove the trigger...and Kurt would become more distant and morose than he is now...unless it’s Ali that tracks him down and brings him home ;)
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:46 am

I'll get into more detail later, but interesting concept, HORRIBLE execution.

Also [spoiler]It would seem Gambit is GONE FOREVER. I'm sorry, but they SO glossed over that SUPER quick and WTF! It was like Kirkman just didn't care and wanted rid of it. So, she absorbed him while dying and somehow that made him stick around a tad longer than others, he even talked to her in her head, but it was temporary? So like....what happened to him? His psyche which she absorbed apparently in tact? WTF!!!!!! LAME!!![/spoiler]

And the Nightcrawler stuff? As I said before....interesting but not good enough. I don't wanna post a whole ton about that til yall read. I have a feeling you'll be disappointed though...
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

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Post by Nandireya » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:01 am

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
I have a feeling you'll be disappointed though...
Why do you think I've been such a Negative Nancy lately? All our speculating is way more interesting, original, believable and appealing to what the paid writers come up with…
:read The Librarian ~ Keeper of Elfin Facts :read

:bamf I'm sick of my subconscious...it's like it's got a mind of its own... :bamf

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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:02 pm

Originally posted by Nandireya

Why do you think I've been such a Negative Nancy lately? All our speculating is way more interesting, original, believable and appealing to what the paid writers come up with…
Well, the whole thing is VERY interesting, but also really poorly executed. It's kind of a bit out of left field, I mean, I get where they set up for it, but it's still odd. And Rogue at the end? Rogue..I hate you.

I'm actually way more upset about the Gambit development. Vaughan left all that very open, and it was like...he CAN be brought back. And very dumbly and quickly, Kirkman was like "Oh wait...he cant. Sorry!" :bawl

COME ON!
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Post by Confizzle » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:43 pm

Dear lord......well this issue sucked.....there I said it.....Kirkman made NC way too crazy and the cover lied to us :rolleyes , it just seemed to really hurt his character and didn't make a lot of sense....:shrug

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Post by Diablo » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:36 pm

Originally posted by Nandireya
Why do you think I've been such a Negative Nancy lately? All our speculating is way more interesting, original, believable and appealing to what the paid writers come up with…
Exactly my feelings, buddies. I didn't want to be negative, just to be negative. Generally, when I don't like a writer, I keep my mouth shut. I prefer to talk about what I like.
Here, I'm only really worried about how Kurt is written in this comic-book. :X

[Edited on 1-9-2006 by Diablo]
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Post by Diablo » Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:55 pm

For the ones who -me included- can't wait till tomorrow to know what's going on with Kurt and this annual...
Thanks to Novaya Havoc at X-Fan.

[spoiler]
SPOILERS! Nightcrawler takes Dazzler away and tricks her that he had to do so because the X-Men were in grave danger. X-Men find out Dazzler is missing, and realize Nightcrawler took her.

Crawler attacks the X-Men. They take him out. Rogue absorbs him for a minute. Dazzler is pissed that Xavier isn't putting Crawler in prison for coming after her, and walks out.

Rogue loses the Gambit powers and goes back to square one. It just fades out. And she says she knows Kurt's really a monster.

For Nightcrawler? Cool story. But the readers both lose a potentially interesting Rogue and Dazzler. So that's hitting for -1.
[/spoiler]

I don't know if I'll like it -Rogue's coment is particularly frightening me...- but I'll sure read it to know.
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Post by Nandireya » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:14 pm

Well...that was a bit mean...Kurt can't help what Weapon X did to him...he was 14 years old! They tortured him...forced him to do things he really didn't want to do (he wouldn't be all weepy and huddled up if he enjoyed it)...chased him down...burnt the soles off his feet...and didn't bother to even communicate with the guy. I think I'd be pretty messed up too. Rogue was there...she should realise all that. I haven’t even read the book yet and I think I really don't like her.

So...what's gonna happen to the poor kid now?
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Post by kamizzi » Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:22 pm

I don't know what to think about that annual...
I'm only sure about that, I want to know what Rogue saw in his head!!!!!
:?

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Post by Nandireya » Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:29 am

Originally posted by kamizzi
I don't know what to think about that annual...
I'm only sure about that, I want to know what Rogue saw in his head!!!!!
I'm assuming what we saw at the start...something that made him look evil even though it was beyond his control...he cried when she said he was a monster...monsters don't cry.
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Post by Diablo » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:29 am

Originally posted by Nandireya
I'm assuming what we saw at the start...something that made him look evil even though it was beyond his control...he cried when she said he was a monster...monsters don't cry.
I'll also try to keep that in mind, and remain optimistic.
Parhap's it's one of those "Born Again" story, where a character is broken to pieces only to rise anew. I hope it is, because this annual is really heartbreaking.
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Post by Nandireya » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:46 am

Should a man lose everything he owns
Has he truly lost his worth
Or is it the beginning
Of a new and brighter birth


It's got the old fanfic plotbunnies frolicking though :D
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Post by Nandireya » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:55 am

Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
Brubaker has him targeted all right. Targeted for awesomeness.
Brubaker has stated time and time again that not all the X-Men that went off chasing Vulcan will be coming home...at least one will die...though he did say he was going to kill one of his favourite characters and I get the impression he picked Kurt 'cause he was available and his powers would be useful in the confined halls of a spaceship NOT because he's a favourite...maybe Kurt is safe...or at least safer than some of the others...
Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
Wait, what's wrong with Ultimate?
In a nutshell [spoiler]he went nuts...kidnapped Dazzler, 'cos he likes her don't you know, fought the X-Men (pretty decently too) but got taken out by Rogue (who's powers have returned to normal now that Gambit's faded out of existence), who said she knows he's as much a monster on the inside as he is on the outside because of what she saw in his head when she touched him (surely nothing more than Chuck has already seen) and is now locked in a psychic induced coma in the Institute basement...though a tear rolls down his cheek when Rogue calls him a monster indicating there’s still hope for him I guess…[/spoiler]

Taking out two popular characters in one sweep of his pen...I don't think Kirkman's made any fans around here...
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Post by The Drastic Spastic » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:11 pm

OMG the annual is out!

I don't know about not making any fans. It's almost a whole issue of Kurt, and not one single mention of the G word. Now, if Kirkman uses his current vulnerability to introduce that, well, that would suck. But it hasn't happened yet! And it is absolutely wonderful to see some realistic(...ish) psychology going on. He's [spoiler]completely insane! And socially clueless[/spoiler]! Just like you'd fricking expect, after all the torture and isolation and all. Yay!

Brubaker has said that Kurt is one of his favourites. I guess that's not so good in this context. How can they keep killing off mutants now that there are so few left?
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Post by Confizzle » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:25 pm

Personally I hope they kill of Warpath, I want him to die trying to destroy the ship that Vulcan is escaping on, have it explode, and....wait....this sounds familer.

The first time I read the Ultimate Annual I didn't like it but I've gained a better apperciation for it. Ultimate Kurt would be an interesting animation.

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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:36 pm

Originally posted by Confizzle
Personally I hope they kill of Warpath, I want him to die trying to destroy the ship that Vulcan is escaping on, have it explode, and....wait....this sounds familer.
OMFG they better not!

As for Ultimate...i though the idea was good, it just was executed very poooooorly. It seemed to come off as slightly left field..AND Dazzler LEFT! Add that there is now officially NO way to bring Gambit back in ANY capacity (thanks ALOT Kirkman), and I was pretty annoyed...
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

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Post by The Drastic Spastic » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:39 pm

Originally posted by Confizzle
Personally I hope they kill of Warpath, I want him to die trying to destroy the ship that Vulcan is escaping on, have it explode, and....wait....this sounds familer.
lol! Can't say I would miss him.

And oooh. The Gambit thing. Yeah. I kind of shrugged that off when I was reading cause... I don't care. I don't like it, cause now we're going to get whiny can't touch Rogue back, but I didn't think about it that way.

It came off as very left field because... he's a genuine nutcase. And unlike people who are just slightly off (like, say, Magneto) that makes him extremely unlikeable. Every word out of his mouth made me cringe. I like it! :toothy
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Post by Nandireya » Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:58 am

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
As for Ultimate...i though the idea was good, it just was executed very poooooorly. It seemed to come off as slightly left field..AND Dazzler LEFT! Add that there is now officially NO way to bring Gambit back in ANY capacity (thanks ALOT Kirkman), and I was pretty annoyed...
Yeah...giving Ali, Remy and Kurt (I know...he's still there but he's gonna be even more a part of the scenery now...unless he gets out somehow...:scratch oh great...now I've got another plot bunny to feed) the boot in favour of Cable and Bishop? Not really roasting my potato...never did care for the muscle bound massive gun touting duo...
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Post by The Drastic Spastic » Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:48 am

Cable and Bishop? I thought Ultimate was immunized against time travel.

And maybe we (I) should have made a different topic for all this. Oh well.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:48 am

Don't worry about it Spaz! It's taken care of...

I'll merge it with the Ultimate thread too, as soon as you guys see where it'll be going ;)
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