Ultimate X-Men General Discussion

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:47 am

So...Kurt's going up against the X-Men in Ultimate X-Men #83...looks like there's going to be one less book on my pull list...unless Kirkman manages to do something surprising...

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:25 am

I just saw the preview for that. Ach, I angst, I angst. I want Fuzzy to be good again. I really want to see where the heck this pllot is going because if his motivation behind turning evil isn't revealed soon, I just might explode. Or at least stop reading Ultimate. Not out of disgust... I just don't want to read about my favorite Elf becoming a villain, which would certainly get him kicked out of most issues anyway. I wonder if they're going to take the Belasco road. However, I'm really hoping the plot behind this all is interesting, because I think it could really kick butt if the writers work hard. Even if it does mean Nighty being bad, for the sake of the story, y'know... I just need it to be believable, because right now everything's so darn confusing.

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:02 am

I don't think he's evil...I think he's just nuts. He was 14 when Weapon X kidnapped him and tortured him for 8 months.

I went to staff training yesterday, and the lecturer said that in order to get over trauma you need a supportive family and quality informal relationships...and Kurt doesn't appear to have either...we don't even know if he HAS any family in the Ultimate universe...and his informal relationships have been with people who, in his mind, ignored or avoided him (just about everyone), lied to him (Peter), ran out on him (Warren/Ali) or verbally abused him (Rogue...and to a certain extent, Storm). The only one who treated him with any sort of respect was Logan...probably because he's the only one who really knows what the kid's been through.

Is it any wonder he's nuts?

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:01 pm

I like your take on the siutation. Make me feel so much better about springtime for Ultimate. You're right, that's absolutely logical. It's easy to forget 'Crawler's been through all that, or even that the Professor suspected he had a mental condition, since he's been in a coma. It seemed to me a couple times that the Professor knew something that hasn't been shared yet. He could also be acting under mind control, or just be on his way to going evil, or like you said, simply crazy.

Gawsh, I'm actually starting to get excited!

I just hope he doesn't

CmX · Post by **CmX** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:06 am

This book fuckin blows Kirkman has overstayed his welcome IMO.

I'm not too interested in Singer coming along the title either. Why'd Vaughn get the boot??

The Drastic Spastic · Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:57 pm

Originally posted by Nandireya
I don't think he's evil...I think he's just nuts. He was 14 when Weapon X kidnapped him and tortured him for 8 months.

I went to staff training yesterday, and the lecturer said that in order to get over trauma you need a supportive family and quality informal relationships...and Kurt doesn't appear to have either...we don't even know if he HAS any family in the Ultimate universe...and his informal relationships have been with people who, in his mind, ignored or avoided him (just about everyone), lied to him (Peter), ran out on him (Warren/Ali) or verbally abused him (Rogue...and to a certain extent, Storm). The only one who treated him with any sort of respect was Logan...probably because he's the only one who really knows what the kid's been through.

Is it any wonder he's nuts?

Exactly!

This is why the stuff happening in Ultimate with Kurt is so good right now. It's realistic (ish), considering the character, his background, and his present situation.

Kirkman is great for that kind of thing. I'm so happy he didn't just bring it up and drop it.

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:27 pm

I come bearing spoilers from UXM #80!!!

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_ ... tml#cutid1

I hope the link works - if it doesn't, please let me know!
These are VERY, VERY SPOILERISH scans! Beware if you don't like that sort of thing.

But after seeing this, I'm MUCH more excited about Ultimate... The last of my hatred of it may disappear!

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:31 am

I got the book yesterday so it's not a spoiler for me...it'll be interesting to see where he's going with this...

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:29 am

OK peeps. Ultimate X-men #83 is coming up very soon. What do you think is going to happen?

Myself, I keep thinking our creepy Crawler is going to kick the bucket. But that leaves a few still viable plot threads dangling. Still, I don't see him joining "the new new X-men team" so he will probably at least disappear for a while... probably a long while. There's no sign of him in any solicitations for future issues, at least through September.

*cries*

[Edited on 6-20-07 by Feuerstein]

The Drastic Spastic · Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:53 am

Originally posted by Feuerstein
OK peeps. Ultimate X-men #83 is coming up very soon. What do you think is going to happen?

Myself, I keep thinking our creepy Crawler is going to kick the bucket. But that leaves a few still viable plot threads dangling. Still, I don't see him joining "the new new X-men team" so he will probably at least disappear for a while... probably a long while. There's no sign of him in any solicitations for future issues, at least through September.

*cries*

I don't know!!! He's not joining the new team with Storm and Wolverine because... Dazzler. He could die I guess. Maybe. They usually let you know when someone is going to die and I haven't seen anything. Maybe they'll just kill all the warmongering Morlocks and he'll stay in the sewer with whoever is left. Maybe he'll rejoin the X-Men. We got regret foreshadowing last issue but it could mean anything.

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:05 am

Likely enough he'll stick in the sewers, as you said. I don't think he'd join the X-men because of what he said to Pyro about the Professor being a bad man or whatever. He's not too enthused with the X-men. But it'd be a real shame to kill him off, because now that I think about it, there are a LOT of loose ends that need to be tied, plus we never got any real reason for why he went nuts like that. If it's all psychological baggage that just suddenly grew too heavy and made him snap, okay, but that's no reason to kill the character off. My love for 'Crawler aside, I really think that'd be a horrible mistake.

I think you're probably right though - we would have gotten a warning in the solicitations if someone was dying. Hmm. I don't want to wait a whole week more for this issue!

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:50 am

The Professor is dead (for now), bad man or not.

Didn't you see in the last issue how he was all "I left the X-Men but I think I may have made a terrible mistake"? It will probably depend on whether they are willing to forgive him for being a total whack job. Which they will. They're desperate for mutants to populate their school. They're recruiting Morlocks, for gosh sakes. Jean was ready to take over on his "therapy" where the Big X left off, too, he just escaped before she could start.

Or maybe he'll stay in the sewers. Or die. But Kirkman has been doing so good with him I hope he rejoins the team.

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:57 pm

Yeah, I remember that. Right now Kurt's mostly confused and probably alternating between hating himself and blaming everyone else. I wish I had your faith though. Maybe I'm panicking a little because of how close we are to that issue coming out. Maybe I'll just cease talking until after it comes out, becaue mostly what I'm doing is being upset about things that haven't happened yet. ^^"

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:59 am

Originally posted by Feuerstein
Yeah, I remember that. Right now Kurt's mostly confused and probably alternating between hating himself and blaming everyone else. I wish I had your faith though. Maybe I'm panicking a little because of how close we are to that issue coming out. Maybe I'll just cease talking until after it comes out, becaue mostly what I'm doing is being upset about things that haven't happened yet. ^^"

If he dies, he will die sacrificing himself to help the X-Men. (Comforting??) He seems to have moved beyond blaming other people. My best guess is that he will come back to the school as a student but not as an X-Man.

I missed speculation soooo much so I'm going to keep talking about it even if I have to talk to myself.

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:00 pm

Last issue was kind of confusing, in a good way, I think. First we had that moment you mentioned ("I think I might have made a mistake"), and then we had him vowing to fight the X-men. It's good because it shows how torn up inside he is. I'm not sure he'll go back to the school though. I'm thinking it'd be too soon after everything that's happened (he acted insane (but he also kicked butt, which was sooo awesome) and just spent who knows how long in a coma, and in the meantime the professor died/disappeared, so not only has Kurt changed, but so has the entire school). He may go off with the Morlocks, but they obviously do not have innocent "we're just poor mutant banding together to escape the harshness of the world" sentiments. Maybe he'll just wander off on his own. o.O

I'd be very interested to watch you speulate with yourself. I bet you could do it well.

The Drastic Spastic · Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:11 am

Originally posted by Feuerstein
Last issue was kind of confusing, in a good way, I think. First we had that moment you mentioned ("I think I might have made a mistake"), and then we had him vowing to fight the X-men.

He didn't vow to fight the X-Men AFTER he said he'd made a terrible mistake. It looks like he (Kirkman) is pulling away from mentally ill territory and zeroing in on just plain fucked up.

There's SO MUCH that could be done with this character now! I don't know why everyone is so bitter about him not starting out as Mr Perfect. There's nowhere to go from there (nowhere good, anyway) and it's no fun. This character could go in so many directions, it's wonderful.

I order you to find it wonderful.

It's good because it shows how torn up inside he is. I'm not sure he'll go back to the school though. I'm thinking it'd be too soon after everything that's happened (he acted insane (but he also kicked butt, which was sooo awesome) and just spent who knows how long in a coma, and in the meantime the professor died/disappeared, so not only has Kurt changed, but so has the entire school). He may go off with the Morlocks, but they obviously do not have innocent "we're just poor mutant banding together to escape the harshness of the world" sentiments. Maybe he'll just wander off on his own. o.O

Okay, I think where I am coming from with this is - how could Kirkman set up all this awesome potential and then just send him away? It's not so much faith as practicality.

He wasn't in a coma for very long at all. And even when he was, he was still around, we'd see him in medlab scenes and X trying to talk to him. That's where a lot of the "faith" comes from, knowing that Kirkman doesn't set things up and then get distracted (like some people *COUGHMONT*) but he picks up all the threads and does something with them. I've seen before that he follows up on things he starts. That wasn't a get him out of the way coma. That was a thoughtfully considered and carefully plotted coma.

I love you Kirkman! Please don't kill Ultimate Nightcrawler! He hasn't been this good for yeeeears.

I'd be very interested to watch you speulate with yourself. I bet you could do it well.

I've had a lot of practice.

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:26 pm

He didn't vow to fight the X-Men AFTER he said he'd made a terrible mistake.

I thought it went, 1. Nighty meets Morlocks 2. "Why you here?" 3. "My friends are mean. But I think I made a terrible mistake." 4. "OMG, you were an X-man! We hate X-men. We're going to war." 5. "Er, okay."

I order you to find it wonderful.

WORKIN ON IT I SWEAR.

Okay, I think where I am coming from with this is - how could Kirkman set up all this awesome potential and then just send him away? It's not so much faith as practicality.

The little glimpses of him in the medlab gave me hope that was crushed issue after issue. But you make sense. Why would he have bothered to show us that at all if he wasn't building up to something? And Nighty did get nearly an entire issue to himself once he'd woken up. But I still have fears he's going to disappear after the next issue. That will bug me because we had the coma-disappearance, three issues with him, and now another disappearance. But that hasn't happened yet, so maybe I'll be surprised. THREE MORE DAYS. (Well, five for me, since my bookstore always gets new stuff in late.)

I've had a lot of practice.

I have too, only I tend to talk myself in circles. @_@

The Drastic Spastic · Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:19 am

Originally posted by Feuerstein
He didn't vow to fight the X-Men AFTER he said he'd made a terrible mistake.
I thought it went, 1. Nighty meets Morlocks 2. "Why you here?" 3. "My friends are mean. But I think I made a terrible mistake." 4. "OMG, you were an X-man! We hate X-men. We're going to war." 5. "Er, okay."

You're out of order. The war comment came before he admitted to associating with the X-Men. He agreed to a defend our home against the humans war, not a kill all X-Men war. I could see him agreeing to fight the X-Men, because he views that bridge as burned, but he didn't agree to that at all.

The little glimpses of him in the medlab gave me hope that was crushed issue after issue. But you make sense. Why would he have bothered to show us that at all if he wasn't building up to something? And Nighty did get nearly an entire issue to himself once he'd woken up. But I still have fears he's going to disappear after the next issue. That will bug me because we had the coma-disappearance, three issues with him, and now another disappearance. But that hasn't happened yet, so maybe I'll be surprised. THREE MORE DAYS. (Well, five for me, since my bookstore always gets new stuff in late.)

I'm not that familiar with Kirkman's work so I don't really know. I gave up on Invincible before it got good. But I think he will keep Nightcrawler around, just based on my own crazy logic.

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:32 am

Aaah, you're right. I remember. Yaaaaaaaaaaay me.

This is the first time I've read anything by Kirkman, so your crazy logic trumps mine.

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:09 am

I only know Kirkman from the Walking Dead but the Walking Dead is really really really good. And I've heard his other stuff is really really really good. So I've had high hopes for his work on this book from the beginning.

Usually my high hopes are let down but so far he's exceeded them.

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:58 am

I've heard mixed stuff about him. On another forum, he's been abused pretty badly. Lots of people complaining about pacing. But it seems to be that Vaughan and Kirkman just have very different styles.

The Drastic Spastic · Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:37 am

Originally posted by Feuerstein
I've heard mixed stuff about him. On another forum, he's been abused pretty badly. Lots of people complaining about pacing. But it seems to be that Vaughan and Kirkman just have very different styles.

Link? I can kind of see the pacing complaint maybe but I'd have to read them again.

The only part of Vaughan's run I remember is Sinister throwing Xavier down the stairs. Oh, the rest of the Sinister stuff is coming back now. Still don't remember enough to compare them. Reread etc.

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:19 pm

It was on scans_daily on livejournal. I'd really have to pick through posts to find all the Ultimate posts. But there's one that was particularly vicious. If I'm feeling at all productive, I'll scrape it up.

Rereading is good. It's been my thing recently, having nothing better to do. That, and the fact that Ultimate TPBs are the only X-men titles my bookstore keeps in stock regularly - all issues. >.<

I really wouldn't say either Vaughan or Kirkman are bad at pacing. They're just really, really different writers. And I think a lot of people got attached to Vaughan too, he was on it for so long. Not me though - I think the first issue of Ultimate X-men I read was #79. @_@

I was thinking it's rather interesting that, aside from Marvel solicitations, there are no spoilers for #83 at all. Popcultureshock has previews up for #82 and #84, but totally skipped #83. And I can find no nuggets anywhere else. Hmmm...

[Edited on 6-26-07 by Feuerstein]

Feuerstein · Post by **Feuerstein** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:53 am

It just came out, and lo and behold, I was shockingly able to read the issue today! Yay for my bookstore impressing me for once.

Since it's the first day I'm not going to spoil anything, but I will say I don't think the story is very meaty, and I hate the art. And I was not at all surprised by the ending. But it's a good issue. I feel like I can breathe again.

The Drastic Spastic · Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:59 am

Well, it looks like he's not supposed to be 15 any more.

Originally posted by Feuerstein
Since it's the first day I'm not going to spoil anything, but I will say I don't think the story is very meaty, and I hate the art. And I was not at all surprised by the ending. But it's a good issue. I feel like I can breathe again.

Yep. Lots of great stuff in this issue. My favourite part was the shot of Colossus and the sandwich. I couldn't stop laughing. Excitement! Suspense! Action lines!

It was also really nice that they showed the failed recruitment attempt. And that they didn't try to talk him into it. That was incredibly descriptive of the way the new team will be run. I'm actually sort of interested in that team now, even though I wasn't before.

As for Nightcrawler, stone cold killer in the house.

Oooh the darkness. My nipples are so hard right now.