Civil War

idsunki · Post by **idsunki** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:34 am

Alright, I'm going to do two posts in a row - the first will be why you should care about this title and pick it up, and the second one will be so filled with spoilers not even the tags can contain it!

The basic storyline is one familiar to X-Men fans - Registration. The arguments have been made in the past regarding mutants - how can we let people with the power to level cities roam free with no restrictions whatsoever? In the past, the mutants have fought alone against such things while other heroes stayed above the fray - Iron Man, Captain America, Spider-Man, Mr. Fantastic. It's a mutant problem, let them handle it.

For Civil War, Congress is trying to push through a bill that would require anyone donning a mask and tights to register with the government. They would receive training and assignments fitted to their powers, and work with the cooperation of the local police and law enforcement agencies. It's been stuck in Congress for some time, but those who know of it already prepare for its passing. Tony Stark and Peter Parker have been trying to get the Senate to reconsider the law, pointing out that North America alone has been saved by super-heroes forty-seven times.

Then, tragedy strikes. An inexperienced hero turns left instead of right and children die. Footage is leaked to the press, and the bill passes through Congress with no further opposition. Some heroes see this as a chance to finally become a legitimate force for the public good. Some see it as an attack on their freedom. After all, how long before Washington starts telling them who the super-villains are?

Lines are drawn, teams are split down the middle. Who will stand with the government, and who will resist? And most importantly - who will win?

Now, if you're worried this will be a continuity choke-hold, worry not. Marvel has promised that this is a great jumping on point for new readers, even if you don't know Dr. Strange from Black Bolt. While continuity will certainly matter, it is the core of the characters that decide what side they choose. Give issue one a try, it features one of the best action/fight scenes in comics in a long time.

Next, a break down of issue one - plenty of spoilers abound! Too many spoilers for a tag!

{edit - added awesome flash banner from Marvel to make Idsunki's post even COOLER! --SK}

[Edited on 18/5/06 by Saint Kurt]

idsunki · Post by **idsunki** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:59 am

IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE ABOVE POST - SPOILERS FOLLOW!

Remember that bit about an inexperienced hero causing the death of children above? Good.

The issue opens with the New Warriors (that's Speedball, Namorita, Microbe, and Night Thrasher) ready to record the best episode of the second season of their reality tv show. They're staking out a super villain hideout in the Midwest where Speedfreek, Coldheart, Cobalt Man, and Nitro are, well, hiding out. On camera, they try to take these guys down in the name of higher ratings. The fight is going well for the New Warriors when Namorita (Namor's cousin or something) smashes Nitro into an empty schoolbus outside an elementary school. In a retaliatory attack, Nitro (whose power is to make huge explosions) takes out the New Warriors and about 800 civilians, most of which are children attending the school.

The next page opens with a two page spread, featuring the New Avengers, a few X-Men, and some other random heroes going through the wreckage, helping EMTs look for survivors. Small skeletons litter the ground. Iron Man and Captain America are in the foreground, both on separate pages. This obviously foreshadows their split, but I think the characters shown on each page also offer some hints.

Of interest to us here, Marvel Girl, Cyclops, and Wolverine are helping with the clean up. One kid clings to his mother, frightened at the sight of a huge Sentinel. His mother quickly assures him that they are there to keep an eye on the X-Men - they're the good guys. I think this, more than anything written in Sentinel Squad or Uncanny or adjectiveless conveys just how much the public fears mutants.

Next up we hear from She Hulk on CNN giving some good pro-registration arguments, then a church where Tony Stark is attending the funeral of a kid killed in the blast. He gets spit on by the mother as she accuses him of encouraging kids to dress up and live outside the law by funding the Avengers with his 'dirty billions'. Now, Stark's already made up his mind about what side he's on (see New Avengers Illuminati Special for more on that), but I think he truly commits to registration here. This is what gives him the motivation to hunt down Captain America at the end.

After that, more heroes debate on what they'll do. We get to hear from Invisible Woman, Spider-Man, Daredevil (sort of...), Iron Man, etc. Then comes the best part of the book - the resistance gets its figurehead.

Captain America comes in to report for duty and gives SHIELD Commander Hill a briefing on what the super hero population thinks - they're split down the middle. After hearing this, Hill asks CA if there's anyone in the resistance he can't handle. His response - "Excuse me?"

Captain America is such a bad ass. If you've read the book, you know. If you haven't, go get it. I'm not even going to try and describe this scene.

The issue ends with discussion of the new Captain America crisis. The last panel is a very determined looking Iron Man telling the committee to "Leave Captain America to us."

So what does everyone think of it so far? Any guesses as to where people will side? How about that art work? And, to steal a line from Marvel adverts - Whose side are YOU on?

Confizzle · Post by **Confizzle** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:18 pm

I'd have to side with Iron Man, he does have a good agruement for the regestration act, and it does make sense.

Cibo · Post by **Cibo** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:59 pm

I still don't know what to think of the whole thing... It adds some realism to superhero comics but I'm not sure if the fans will accept such a drastic change for long so I'm afraid everything will be back to normal as usual after some time.
I lean towards Iron Man's side though. I mean you need a license to carry a weapon but you don't need a license if the weapon is you. (Oh my good, what a dumb sentence.)
By the way... has anyone created a "Civil War I'm with Nightcrawler" banner yet?:smirk

Post by **Saint Kurt** » Thu May 18, 2006 1:06 am

Here's a seven page sample from Civil War:#1 that was on NPR's site: it begins. There are spoilers of course, but if you've read Idsunki's thing, you already know about them.

It looks really great. I'm very impressed by the art and the plot is well done. I do think Microbe may have the grossest superhero power ever though...

-e

[Edited on 18/5/06 by Saint Kurt]

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Thu May 18, 2006 3:12 pm

Totally and completely against. Not all weapons require registration even as of now.

Most states have Good Samaritan Laws in effect. The registration act would create problems for unregistered superpowered sorts who witness a crime or accident. They have to act because the law requires them to help, but cannot because they're not registered. And it won't do a single thing to stop supervillains.

A registration act is unnecessary to ensure cooperation with the law. We already have laws against vigilantism.

And it would create an undue burden for mutants and others who have had legitimate reasons to fear government intrusion into their lives.

There. My reasons for opposing.

And yes, there is an "I'm with Nightcrawler" siggy. http://www.imwan.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

But I didn't especially care for it. I mean, it's not like they didn't have plenty of better ones to choose from.

BAMFCentral · Post by **BAMFCentral** » Thu May 18, 2006 3:35 pm

This has pretty much been done before, the whole mutant registration act.. but I will say I am enjoying the run. The art is pretty and the dialogue engaging. They seem to be capturing both sides equally, plus it really makes you love to hate the New shield director. She really seems way to eager for this registration. Fury needs to come out of hiding and slap her upside the head.

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Thu May 18, 2006 3:51 pm

What hasn't been done before, however, is that this time they aren't limiting this to mutant registration, but trying to register all superheroes.

idsunki · Post by **idsunki** » Thu May 18, 2006 5:20 pm

We're actually doing a promotion at our store where people can register or resist using themselves as super heroes in the Marvel U. Out of about twenty that have been turned in, maybe 4 or 5 are registered. I expect that number to be coming up, because so far the series has been mostly anti-registration friendly. Marvel has promised that is going to change soon.

Any comments on the Captain America action scene?

Post by **Saint Kurt** » Thu May 18, 2006 8:33 pm

Originally posted by Angelique
And yes, there is an "I'm with Nightcrawler" siggy. http://www.imwan.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

But I didn't especially care for it. I mean, it's not like they didn't have plenty of better ones to choose from.

There's a better one now.

Right now if you click it, it takes you to the new "speculation thread" in the Nightcrawler forum since Nightcrawler hasn't picked a side yet.

Like we did with the protest letter from last summer, hotlink protection is disabled for that image so you can use it in your .sig for other forums etc.

-e

[Edited on 18/5/06 by Saint Kurt]

Confizzle · Post by **Confizzle** » Thu May 18, 2006 9:52 pm

What arguement does Captain America have for being anti-regestration act, "It's worked before." for the masked vigilantes thing, where I can understand his concern about "Washington telling them who the supervillians are".

Iron Man's arguement makes more sense I mean the New Warriors screwed up and it cost lives, look how much damage is caused by superhero/supervillians fights, I'm surprised this hasn't come up before, it means that Superheroes like Spiderman won't have to run from the police when they capture a bad guy, they'd actually get paided for it, meaning Parker wouldn't have to work at the Bugle.

To finish this off, it's not a mutant regestration act, mutants need to stop acting like the world's out to get them, they're not that important

And let's face it doesn't my Multiple Man sig rock

[Edited on 5/18/2006 by confusedelf]

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:48 pm

Perhaps he sees something vaguely un-American about the whole idea.

chicory · Post by **chicory** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:10 pm

Um, isn't MM on both sides and inbetween? And yes, nice sig - did you change it yourself?

I don't want to be pro-registration

If this were a mutant question - I'd be completely against it. (And no, they don't need to get over themselves - I think it's safe to say that mutants are legitimately being persecuted in the Marvel universe).

But, Iron Man does have a good point. Especially after that incident at the school with so many people dying. You'd hope the Swat team, police, fire department, rescue has *some* training before they put themselves and other people in harms way. Why should superheroes be any different? Especialy since they can now work with the authorities and be accountable for what they do, positive and negative?

(Course the whole situation reminds me of the Incredibles. With all the superheroes being sued and put in the witness protection programme. At least when they are anonymous - people who lose family or businesses in a battle don't know who to blame. On account of the masks and all.)

Confizzle · Post by **Confizzle** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:47 pm

Yes Madrox, is on both sides and neither.....ouch there went my brain.

As for the regestration act, we register drivers, don't we? we register regular people, that's how they get social security cards, people have to register to vote, so why is Regestering people who run around in tights "Superheroes" Unamerican?

chicory · Post by **chicory** » Fri May 19, 2006 12:42 am

Registering to drive is taking a test and demonstating you have certain skills and can obey standard operating laws. Registering to vote is raising your right hand and taking an oath - and signing a document.

Registering Superheroes - or requiring the superpowered who want to be superheroes to register makes a lot of sense on some levels. But, it also might eliminate their ability to keep their identies secret and put their families in danger. It might be impossible for them to have private lives (like many celebraties)

They also might be put in situations where they are guilt tripped into helping out or are threatened by the goverment or are told who to fight and how to do it, no questions asked, like soldiers.

I think it's odd that it's captain america who's with the rebels since he's taking a pessimistic stand about the government. Not putting a lot of faith in it and assuming that it's corrupt, or won't treat the heroes like autonomous citizens.

Another reason I'm surprised is because the Avengers worked so closely with the government, submitting to government monitors and press atention, and had the experience of being regarded as heroes. Was there something about that experience that would have made him choose the side he did?

Not that I think they aren't all fictional characters and that the whole set-up wasn't just designed to sell more books. Or maybe to get debate going among the fans as a promotional thing.

Anyway. What side do you suppose Jeeves is on?

idsunki · Post by **idsunki** » Fri May 19, 2006 6:25 am

The Avengers chose to work closely with the government. However, when push came to shove, the Avengers did what they believed to be correct, not what the government told them to do.

Here is how I see Captain America - he does not stand for the government of this country, he stands for its ideal. He has had some bad experiences with the government in the past as well (anyone remember Nomad?), so he knows not to blindly trust them. While he doesn't have to worry so much about it, many heroes have loved ones they can't protect 24/7. How many times has someone close to Peter Parker been threatened because a villain somehow connected them to Spider-Man?

In the end, for Captain America anyway, the life of a superhero is about choice. You may not choose to get the power you have, but you choose to put on the mask and tights, and you choose to help. Daredevil tries so hard to take down the Kingpin because he knows he is evil. If DD was working for the government, Kingpin would only need to bribe the right officials and he would come out smelling like roses and DD would end up in jail for trying to beat him up.

But keep in mind - like the American Dream, Captain America is fallible. He's just a mortal human like all of us. There is no tradition of the divine right of kings in America, so it makes sense that our symbol was not granted his powers by some mystical being (I'm looking in your general direction, Captain Britain!), but by the very country he represents. He's human, he can make mistakes. He could very well be wrong. However, it makes perfect sense for him to take the anti-registration side.

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Fri May 19, 2006 5:44 pm

Actually, by the Good Samaritan laws in most states, helping is a requirement, not a choice. But nobody is required to register with the government before pulling a drowning person out of the water.

idsunki · Post by **idsunki** » Sat May 20, 2006 1:28 am

True, the Good Samaritan Laws limit your choices in certain instances. However, I do not believe that the GSL dictates that I must go out and look for people to help to the best of my abilities.

For instance, the couple in the next apartment over has a baby on the way. If I were at my apartment and the guy ran over and asked me to take them to the hospital because his car broke down and her water broke, I would be pretty obligated to help out. However, I am in no way obligated to take on a second job and give everything to that couple that I can to help the pregnancy and the child.

Putting on the mask and tights is about going out into the world and looking for people to help. It's like foreign aid workers, Red Cross, missionaries, that sort of thing. Joining up with all those is a choice, not a requirement. That's how Captain America believes things should be done because it has worked in the past and it will continue working in the future. So he believes...

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Sat May 20, 2006 5:51 am

Yeah, and nobody has to register with the government to work for a private charitable organization or just serve as a general concerned citizen, either.

What I speculate would stick in the craw of many superheroes is, besides government intrusion into their everyday lives is that registration with the government is a pretty loaded matter. There are two kinds of people in US society who specifically have to register with the government- convicted sex offenders, and men who are at least theoretically eligible for the draft.

And the possibility of a superhero draft has been raised, with the government likely telling people who to fight and how.

Confizzle · Post by **Confizzle** » Sun May 21, 2006 4:48 am

Considering Superheroes everyday lives aren't really that ordinary.

Let's put this into persepective, Superheroes are pretty much super-powered cops okay, and cops are registered and trained by the goverment, right? I mean I can't pull up in a cop car and say "I'm a cop" and legally arrest people and such. So how can you expect people to feel comfortable with "Supercops" running around without you knowing what the hell they are, what sort of training they have, and what their powers are. This is not a draft, if you want to be a superhero you sign up at an office, like signing up for a drivers license and such, and then you start a training program, put people in the teams they'd work the best in and so on. While it could be a problem for them on the goverment telling them who to fight, you have to admit the goverment ain't exactly all Black Helicopters.

All Captian America's agruement boils down to is "It's worked before'' so he's fine with people running around in tights with no training causing tons of colateral damage, I mean look at Spiderman he has no formal training whatsoever no wonder Gwen Stacy died.......

I really hope that Marvel does have the Regestration act in place, not having it is the expected route to take.

Also with Geniuses like Tony Stark and Reed Richards on my side I know I'm right

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Sun May 21, 2006 6:01 am

Actually, this is not comparable to local police departments.

It is possible to work in cooperation with local police departments without even being a cop. Even in a professional or semi-professional capacity.

From what I see, superheroes don't function as cops unless they really are cops. From what I've seen, they pursue and apprehend criminals, but leave the actual arrests, citations, charges, etc., up to the professionals.

And people die even at the hands of trained cops. No, I don't think superhero registration would solve what you say it would. Gwen Stacy would probably have died anyway.

Even in the real world, you don't need to register with some federal agency to help out the police. Just don't impersonate a cop.

Confizzle · Post by **Confizzle** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:07 pm

Yes, but just think how much time and money the police office could save if the Superheroes could arrest people and take them to the police station. Yes people die at the hands of trained cops but more would probably die at the hands of untrained cops, would you want an untrained cop wandering around? Cause there are certainly a lot of untrained superheroes (New Warriors) who wandered around and screwed up costing the lives of innocent civillians.

Unlike the mutant regestration acts that have been passed/ and failed in the Marvel U, this act can only benefit, if Joe wants to be a Superheroes he goes and registers, and he gets trained, put on a team etc. (Of course I've said this before) I can understand some of the resistence to unmasking themselves but that's about all I can understand.

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Tue May 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Well, and it isn't that simple. This is one more indignity being heaped upon mutant superheroes, who already by and large can't go anywhere without being babysat by sentinels.

If the superhero registration act existed in a vacuum, maybe I'd give it a moment's consideration. But it doesn't.

Katya · Post by **Katya** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:38 am

Originally posted by Angelique

And yes, there is an "I'm with Nightcrawler" siggy. http://www.imwan.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

But I didn't especially care for it. I mean, it's not like they didn't have plenty of better ones to choose from.

Oh, I don't know.I kind of liked it, but saint Kurt's is pretty nice too. Can I borrow it, Saint?

[Edited on 24/5/06 by Katya]

Katya · Post by **Katya** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:47 am

too late! It's mine now! But then Kitty Pryde was always a little sneaky! Just phasin' in and out!