The NEW NEW Excalibur (with Nocturne, etc.)

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Post by Nandireya »

Is #3 out? Didn't bother to go in to the comic store this week...shows you how keen I am on the title...there was only one title that got me to go down there on the day of it's release, and it's gone now :cry

Yeah...Nocturne's pretty 'off'...guess Chris could use the new defence (:wanda did it!)...but shouldn't Brian be a bit more upset about the disappearance of his wife?
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Post by Confizzle »

Yeah... Brian does seem too calm about the disapperence of Meggan. It's like "Brian where's Meggan?"
"My friend if she is dead she's be back in a year or so. "

Is Courtney still the evil facist person Sat-yr-9 posing as 616 Courtney or did see get better? :)


There was a cameo of Harry and company? :?
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Post by Diablo »

Well, issue#3 was the best one so far. :)

[spoiler] Juggernaut, Nocturne and co finish thier fight against the "Dark X-Men", from another dimension. There is something very satisfying in seeing Cain Marko fighting the X-Men... and doing the right thing.[/spoiler]

Chris Claremont writes Chuck Austen's Juggernaut and Nocturne quite well, and I'm really pleased with their role.
Plus, the years-long subplot Courtney Ross/Sat-Yr 9 isn't forgotten and I like it.

Finally, with [spoiler] dopplegangers from another dimension, a member of the "Wagner" family, Captain Britain, Courtney Ross and the United Kingdom,[/spoiler] this is truly Excalibur my friends. :)

Oh, and I forgot about the excellent [spoiler] Harry Potter cameo. [/spoiler]

Despite all my good coments, I must admit I'm afraid how Kesley -the ex-new Captain Britain, now called "Lionheart"- will be portayed in the next couple of issues. Just wait and see...
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

I really disagree with you on his using Nocturne well. There's nothing about the way he writes her that says "this is without a doubt TJ. This is 100% in her character". He's also so out of touch with the generation she represents (and has since Winick wrote her), and its obvious. I mean, "grrl"?? Come on. Shes not 15. She's 21ish...

Check out Exiles, pre-Bedard. THAT'S TJ.....even Austen did pretty well with it. I just think it's a case of a writer not knowing how to relate to a character, so then using overheard stereotypes to make it work...
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Post by idsunki »

Both the Harry Potter cameo and the "Grrl" incident made me want to punch Chris Claremont in the face with an airplane, and I'm a Harry Potter fan!
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Post by Diablo »

Come on, people, it isn't that bad.
X-Men : the end really sucks big time, I totally agree.
But Uncanny and Excalibur are fine by me.

OK, I can undestand why you don't like this version of TJ.
But about the Harry Potter cameo, why the hate ?? I'm playing the Marvel Role Playing game -as a master- and in a recent mission, Kurt Wagner met Harry. All of my players liked it.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by Diablo

OK, I can undestand why you don't like this version of TJ.
But about the Harry Potter cameo, why the hate ?? I'm playing the Marvel Role Playing game -as a master- and in a recent mission, Kurt Wagner met Harry. All of my players liked it.
It's just soooooo completely out of the blue and random. I can understand it as being funny kind of, but do we really need to give those kids writing "Xmen go to Howarts LOL" fics any more fodder?

It just made no sense. Whatsoever. It's like Superman running into Kramer......
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Post by Confizzle »

yup we do not need any more X-Men/HP crossovers :shudders. I hope New Excalibur does turn out to be good, maybe Claremont will get T.J. right eventually.
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Post by Diablo »

If anyone remembers, in the first Excalibur series -during Inferno's aftermath-, a certain reporter from Metropolis made a cameo. So it isn't something new about Claremont.

What I don't understand is why this Harry Potter joke is upsetting you. I can imagine you like to keep these two universes in very different corners of your imagination, but frankly, this cameo is really inoffensive. And -as you said NachtcGleiskette- quite funny.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

I dont think anyone said they found it offensive or upsetting. Just stupid. Thats all, at least on my end. Like, with a book that already has so much going on, so many loose ends, and so much cheesy dialogue, having that thrown in was like "Where the hell did this come from?"

I can see where others found it funny, to me it just fell short....
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Post by Nandireya »

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
I dont think anyone said they found it offensive or upsetting. Just stupid. Thats all, at least on my end. Like, with a book that already has so much going on, so many loose ends, and so much cheesy dialogue, having that thrown in was like "Where the hell did this come from?"
Because of its direct comparison to another book that also has so much going on, so many loose ends, and so much cheesy dialogue? ;)
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Post by idsunki »

The Harry Potter thing was an annoyance. The "Grrl" comment was unforgivable.

Also, isn't Ms. Rowling really protective of her intellectual property?
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Post by Diablo »

If Jack Bauer, Luke Skywalker or Agent Special Dale Cooper appear for a brief cameo, inside a story that doesn't present them as ridiculous characters, I'll like it.

Perhap's it's only me, but I find the interconnexion between imaginary worlds fascinating. It doesn't always work, but Marvel is a multiverse. Not just a universe. It's kind of logical and funny here.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

personally, i didnt think it was funny, you did think it ws funny...its neither really. It's all up to interpretation and thats all we're doing here is sharing our interpretations...
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Post by Diablo »

Yes OK but in general, don't you like this imaginary interconnexions ?
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by Diablo
Yes OK but in general, don't you like this imaginary interconnexions ?
Personally, no. I see Marvel as a universe seperate from, say, DC and whatever else is out there. I don't want my favorite TV show character guesting in a comic, because in all honesty, it seems like a gimmicky marketing ploy.

And it's kind of hard to believe that there now, in the Marvel U, is a well established chain of schools for wizardry that has been all but ignored until Cain bumps into Harry Potter? What? But thats taking it seriously.

Not taking it seriously: GIMMICK

Gimmicks do not good lit make
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

So, the newest issue is out. While this issue was not as bad as the previous one (I'm not going to even talk about Nocturne and a second use of "grrl" by a new character) I don't understand the pacing of the whole thing. Why is everything going so quickly? And why do we need a new arc with a new villian so quick? And how did Nocturne and Dazzler get so close? I feel like we're missing an issue. I have no idea who Lionheart is or why she's so pissed, but was not given enough from the character to say "Wow, who's this? Let's find out!"

ANd why are we hearing about "End of Greys"? It just seems like self promotion. I'm beginning to understand this "Claremont is a fan of Claremont" thing.

Ok, I am going to talk about Nocturne. I lied :p. Ok, she's Kurt's daughter WE GET IT. She's not new, she's been around (5 years now, I think? Going on 6?), she's even been written in the 616 universe for almost two years. Cut the cord already! Is there going to be an arc where she doesn't have contact with her psuedo-dad? He's not even her dad! And honestly, how many 21 year olds are in constant contact with their father like that? And him being "honored" by being called daddy? I don't know what to think...

And another thing, when did she become boy crazy? I'll point over to the Nocturne thread, I uploaded an entire issue based around one of her relationships. She is a very "take control" girl. I hardly see her as a "omg hot boys!" character...but then, I think what bugs me about that is the little hearts next to the line. Had it been a straightfoward line, it would have worked, those little hearts make her seem a bit love-sick, boy-crazy....I don't know who's fault that is, though...

I wish it would slow down a bit. We can have one or two issues just seeing how these characters are reacting to this, having Wisdom make his proposal to them, find out why the hell they're all in London anyway? That still is very unclear to me.....we don't need action, action, action! This is what I mean by his (recent) work lacking real character development. The relationships between characters seems rather tacked on, I mean the only characters with previous close friendships are Cain and TJ. How'd the rest of them get so buddy buddy?

Anyway, it wasn't as bad as it's been. But having both the Lionheart thing to deal with, as well as Warwolves (wtf? seriously? wtf?) I find it hard to have faith that this arc is going to be as successful as I'd like it to be..

Dammit, if I wasn't such a Nocturne completist, I'd have dropped this three issues ago....
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Post by Confizzle »

Wait...they had Lionheart and Warwolves.... how much stuff is being shoved into these issues? I'm betting a new and improved Technet will be around soon :). But I'm giving New Excalibur 2 more issues to really impress me, I bought it because I like T.J. but now I think I'll just go buy some old Exiles.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by confusedelf
Wait...they had Lionheart and Warwolves.... how much stuff is being shoved into these issues? I'm betting a new and improved Technet will be around soon :). But I'm giving New Excalibur 2 more issues to really impress me, I bought it because I like T.J. but now I think I'll just go buy some old Exiles.
OOO go buy old Exiles! I've been rereading mine today and I forgot how amazing they are! You will not be disappointed!

Edited to add:

What's with the video/photo ipod thing? Where did she get it? How does it have information from her now defunct homeworld? Exiles ain't Survivor people, you don't get to bring one item along....where the hell did it come from? And it's not even a necessary part of the story, why make a continuity error on such a small thing?

Edited again to add:

The more I think about it, the more the Beatles reference bugs me too. Mainly because it just shows how out of touch he really is with younger generations. Not to say younger people don't like the Beatles, but couldn't he have picked a band a bit more applicable to their age? One that existed within their lifetime? Nirvana immediately comes to mind, but only as one reference..and also because Kurt Cobain's death was a huge deal back in the day. Maybe in TJ's world, he never died? I dunno...I guess being a prolific Vaughan reader (a man who raises pop culture references to an art form) I expect more than name dropoping the most name dropped band to ever exist,,,,

[Edited on 1/2/06 by NachtcGleiskette]

[Edited on 2/2/06 by NachtcGleiskette]
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Post by idsunki »

I think I see what you're trying to say here, Nacht, and allow me to sum up.

Reading Claremont's current run on New Excalibur is like reading bad fanfiction. The characters aren't characterized right, relationships get thrown in that have no basis in canon, and villains that haven't been heard from in nearly fifteen years show up again. This also explains that Beatles/iPod thing. That sounds like a bad fanfiction bit in there by an author that has "I <3 THE BEETLES! OMG THEIR SO DREEEEEEEEEAMY!!!!!" in their profile.

Am I close to the mark, Nacht?
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Post by chicory »

I don't think I'll be picking up Excalibur 2 then :( Which is too bad - because I really was excited about this line-up. Nocturne, Cain, and Wisdom seemed like they would have interesting interactions.

(I can't believe they just dropped Meggan like they did - I hope it isn't so that Brian can be paired up with Sat-ur-nyne/Sat-r-9 again.)

At the same time - I hope it gets better as it goes on.
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Post by Diablo »

I actually enjoyed issue#4. A lot.
This series isn't as X-cellent as Excalibur vol1 (almost every X-ongoing isn't, by the way...), but far, far better than Excalibur vol.2. :)

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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by idsunki
I think I see what you're trying to say here, Nacht, and allow me to sum up.

Reading Claremont's current run on New Excalibur is like reading bad fanfiction. The characters aren't characterized right, relationships get thrown in that have no basis in canon, and villains that haven't been heard from in nearly fifteen years show up again. This also explains that Beatles/iPod thing. That sounds like a bad fanfiction bit in there by an author that has "I <3 THE BEETLES! OMG THEIR SO DREEEEEEEEEAMY!!!!!" in their profile.

Am I close to the mark, Nacht?
Wow...pretty near on the mark!

I keep hearing the same things. "Wait! It's ok now, but Claremont's building up to something great!" "It will be great, you just have to wait! Just be patient!" No. I don't have to wait. And I don't think it's too much to expect a writer should pull off a first arc/issue that will really grab the reader. Other writers do it. Issue 1 of Runaways was fantastic! Not too much action, alot of set up, and it all rolled through very organically. You don't question for a second why this is said, or why this is done...maybe it's a bad example because they are all new characters...but, then, the job is tougher! It should be easier to create a story using already familiar and liked characters that makes the reader say "wow, i cant wait to see what happens next!" SO far, the reaction I've seen has been everything from "Its not bad, I kinda liked it" to "this is the worst thing Ive ever read." Wheres the "wow"??
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Post by Confizzle »

All right, I figure I'll inform y'all about a recent development.

T.J. has lost her "Hex Bolts" yup , Claremont has taken away the Hex Bolts in an off-page depowerment, or something of the sort. I really don't see why he's doing this, or what his explanation is, but it makes me glad I dropped this comic.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

You found that out from me in chat! :P

Yeah, its the sh!ttiest development I have ever seen. Why?? WHY????!!! It makes no sense whatsoever.......As far as I heard, it was because they misunderstood what TJs hex bolts were and thought they were probability altering and wanted to get rid of that power in canon...to stop any more craziness from happening again....

But, if you do your research (and read issue 2-i think..or 3- of Exiles) you'd KNOW her power is in no way connected to her mother, only named after her....

*sigh* Next they'll say she's not AU Wanda's daughter at all...I'm so close to dropping Xtitles all together...
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