X-Men: The End

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X-Men: The End

Post by E.M.S »

Did anyone get this? I did, I'd be happy to give spoilers if someone would show me how.
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X-Men: The End

Post by E.M.S »

Oh :blush right...ahem...thanks Crawler.

[spoiler] Okay, so the book starts off with Aliyah, Bishop and Deathbirds' daugther. It's explained that she never knew her father, Lilandra (sp?) went insane and Deathbird ironically became the empires' salvation. Aliyah is in a danger room-like room jogging around the old X-Mansion when the program gets shut off and a voice informs her that they have company. She gets dressed in a classic yellow/blue x-outfit and ventures out onto an alien world still talking to the voice.

What she witnesses is the Kree making a deal with some slavers that have some X-people as hounds. Two of them are Jamie Madrox and Theresa Cassidy. The third one mentioned was Slipstream who is a hound because he wants to be. The Kree and the slavers are making a trade, the Kree seem excited about the big pod they are about to get. Suddenly the voice tells Aliyah to be on guard and she's attacked by another hound, Nocturne. Even though Aliyah can't fly she uses her jet pack to dodge her and Siryn, she's soon noticed and has to deal with the T.J. and the others (Kree, hounds, a warskull).

Aliyahs' in trouble, about to be killed when something blasts her attacker. She then notices the pod has been opened. A naked, bald woman with many wires draping around her was in the pod but soon falls over exhasted. Aliyah grabs the woman and begins to fly away as the Brood make an appearance, when the woman tell her to wait. The woman insists on taking T.J. with them though she's unsure why. They escape the Brood in the Starjammer ship.

Inside we she who the voice was, which appears to be a holographic Carol Danvers as Binary. She tells Aliyah that a local star is going super nova and their shields might not save them. Suddenly the woman lights up and claims she can help. The next two pages show the Phoenix effect with the X-Men reacting to sensing Jean.

Scott and Emma are still together, WITH A BABY!
Kitty is running for mayor and Rachel senses her mother. Xavier is still in Genosha teaching. Sinister is pleased.
Cable mentions betraying Jean and everything he held dear. And Logan and Storm are in Africa with Ororo in some metal body cast!

Aliyah is a little freaked out about having the one that is suppose to be "the end of all that is" with them. Jean says she's not now and hopefully never will be. Carol informs them that they have an intruder on board but Jean says that's her doing. She felt that thay the only one person could save T.J., and the last panel has a worried Kurt. [/spoiler]
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X-Men: The End

Post by Maelstrom »

Um... :huh That... sort of reads like some kind of nightmare... The plot elements are so damn many, and don't make a lot of sense right now. [spoiler] And I especially don't like the idea of Lilandra going bad and Ms. "I-Made-A-Deal-With-the-Brood", "How-Many-Xmen-Can-I-Add-to-My-Trophy-Chamber", "I'm-as-Evil-as-They-Come" DEATHBIRD being the salvation of the empire. Does "dark" automatically mean turning heroic characters into raving villians and having the evil guys take over and do right for no apparant reason?? [/spoiler]

How many episodes are there going to be in this comic? It looks like this is just the first part of many.
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X-Men: The End

Post by Crawler »

I have absolutely no problem with the skewing of the characters in the ways Mael mentioned. It's the future, afterall. People change. Things change. We have no idea what happened between now and when this book opens except for the very little that is explained (through narrative! :( ) at the beginning.

This isn't continuity-free, but it's certainly allowed to do things you may not expect. [spoiler]"Over the years she was content to let her more responsible sister assume the burden of rule." kind of bugged me though. Wasn't one of her main motivations for being a villain that she was angry that Lilandra got to be empress over her? [/spoiler]

I can completely disregard my unfondness of CC's tell-over-show style, just because it's his style. Can't really fault him for that, even if I don't like it.

But the big weirdness in this issue (hopefully not the whole series) is just how shallow it is. There's no emotional impact unless you're already attached to these characters, and even then it's pretty low. The writer gives you no reason to care other than what's come before.

You can argue that the only people reading this are the people who are already attached and so it's unneeded...but good storytelling stands on its own. Plus this is the first time we've seen Aliyah, no? Depending on us caring about her simply because she's [spoiler]Bishop's daughter[/spoiler] is, in technical writing terms, sloppy and weak storytelling, and poor characterization.

The good thing to come out of this, for me, was that it pointed that out to me...and I think that I've finally figured out that that was my reason for not really enjoying CC's writing recently and why it felt sort of cocky or egotistical to me.

It simply gives you no or little reason to care, other than the past.

Every story should be able to impact you emotionally, whether you are already familiar with the characters or not. That's really what storytelling is meant to do, even in a continuity-rich setting like X-Men.

There were some little touches that I enjoyed from a fan perspective, though. [spoiler]Kitty running for office, Emma and Scott with a kid, and Nocturne being included[/spoiler] all made me smile.

Unfortunately that was overshadowed by my big problems with the writing and writing style. :(
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X-Men: The End

Post by Maelstrom »

"Tell" instead of "show"? That's strange... how could I not have noticed that about Clairmont's writing style? Especially since I'm so familiar with his stuff from the early years of Uncanny?

And especially because I don't care for that kind of style, either?

I think the reason why I automatically dislike some of the character changes mentioned is just because of what you said, C:
We have no idea what happened between now and when this book opens except for the very little that is explained (through narrative! :( ) at the beginning.
For me, what's in the spoilers is like opening up a new book in the James Bond series and being told, "It had been ten years since Bond's dispirited retreat from MI6, and his defection to the former Soviet Union, and two years since he remarried to Lydia." And then the story just goes with the information without so much as a flashback of explanation. You literally get ambushed with the information out of the blue, and it's so out of character from the past series that it may as well be an alternate universe.

The passing of time alone can't justify things like this for me. I have to see the whole downgrade. Show me the increasing red tape that keeps James from doing his job, the political jockeying that makes his life miserable, maybe a few conspiracies from the top down that make James lose faith in the system. Show me his increasing ties with the new Russia, which is trying desparately to "make good". Show me his slowly developing ties to Lydia, the woman who somehow made him feel again. If you give me these things, if you prepare me for them, I can accept this complete turnaround. Without this "innoculation" of background, I'm going to reject this "new" James Bond like a mismatched kidney.

Perhaps this is just going to be a problem between me and the "The End" series of books. :shame There may not much of a way that you could make really big changes like this and explain them to my satisfaction, because there's so little room to do them in. It feels a bit like walking into a High School 25 year reunion and finding out that the charismatic, tee-totaling, go-getter Class President died a homeless drug user four years after graduating. You wonder how he sank so low so fast, how no one ever noticed it before, but it's so remote that it doesn't seem to touch you any more than a "gee, what a shame".
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X-Men: The End

Post by BAMFCentral »

He's throws a lot at the reader the first go round... People who have no idea of X-men or Marvel should not really try this book. It is way too dependent on the knowledgable X-reader.


I believe they are breaking the book into two series titled book one and book two... Each series will have multiple issues to break down the books.

There are a lot of things presented here, but he has basically laid out the foundation of his future for the reader, so hopefully future issues will get more interesting story wise... time will tell.


Not having a problem yet with his writing... its Claremont and I know what to expect when i read his stuff. Now sometimes I do not like certain elements of his stories, but thats a diff issue.... The only thing bugging me is the [spoiler] Deathbird tie in... with the whole empire thing and the daughter [/spoiler] At least he didn't use "Puts to shame"..... not that I saw anyway...
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X-Men: The End

Post by Azur »

i read X-Men : The End #6 yesterday (yay Jean-Paul !)
and i was wondering
[spoiler] when Rahne dies, she asks Shan "tell Dani I ...!"
'i...' what ? :?
could it be 'i loved her' ??? :ooh: [/spoiler]

bah, probably not :shrug
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Post by Diablo »

Eh, why not ??

I really liked that Chris Claremont used Chuck's X-Men in this issue : Northstar, Juggernaut, Polaris, even Carter... :)

Okay, he killed them all, but still.
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X-Men: The End

Post by Darkholme »

My biggest concern with the first arc of The End is that there were way too many plotlines running concurrently, not to mention more plotlines being added before anything even came close to being resolved. I plan on sitting down and rereading the first 6 this weekend to see if it reads better in one sitting (I have a feeling it will).

But I will admit that there are plenty of nods to lots of things in the 40+ years of X-Men history that we have...and I'm sure I missed a few. This might warrant an annotation listing like Kingdom Come and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen had.
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X-Men: The End

Post by Northstars Love »

Originally posted by Darkholme
My biggest concern with the first arc of The End is that there were way too many plotlines running concurrently, not to mention more plotlines being added before anything even came close to being resolved. I plan on sitting down and rereading the first 6 this weekend to see if it reads better in one sitting (I have a feeling it will).
I agree. I will have to sit down myself and re-read this whole arc. I tend to forget things. Face it, I get about 15 titles a month and I have to refer back to books when I need to answer questions. This is a really good way for me to lose interest.

Ah, the simpler days of one X book. :content *sigh*

The second one is about to begin.
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Post by Azur »

Heroes & Martyrs #3 came out last week and ... :shocked
Kurt kissing [spoiler] Jean [/spoiler] ?! :hide
what the f*ck ...?
omigodomigod i still can't believe it
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Post by Diablo »

I don't know if this couple will last more than a few pages but I really like this idea.
It's funny to think that [spoiler] Kurt had a crush on Ororo and finally kissed Jean while Logan had a crush on Jean and finally kissed Ororo. These best buds have finally a lot in common... [/spoiler]
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Post by Shadow_Dancer »

:yell That just isn't right after all the teasing Claremont's doing in the other direction.

Besides I thought Kurt was [spoiler] already married to Kymrie and with kids [/spoiler] in X-Men the End. Somehow I just can't ever see Kurt as a cheating man. :p
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Post by Diablo »

Well, perhap's Kymri and Kurt are separated...
And yes, I don't see the elf as a cheating man either.
Wait and see...

What doesn't surprise me is the couple Ororo/Logan. They kissed a couple of times during Claremont's first run on Uncanny.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Being the Nocturne fan I am, I have a large problem with Nocturne in this story over all. She hasn't been drawn consistantly (five fingers in the beginning and shoes....whereas she has three now, the shoes are still there) and seeing that when I first picked it up irked me...(yeah, yeah, since when is she ever drawn consitantly, right?). Also, I'm confused about who this Nocturne is. Is it the Nocturne that was left behind by the Exiles? Is it Kurt's actual daughter from this timeline?? It seems [spoiler]it is his actual daughter, he seems to share memories of her childhood as discussed in the last issue[/spoiler]

But, then, if he is [spoiler]married to Kymri[/spoiler] when the hell was he involved with the Scarlet Witch?? I thought for a moment that maybe CC had changed her maternal parentage to fit his story (one of my biggest pet peeves about alot of Fan Fic and RPG including young Nocturne), but then in the recent issue, we see [spoiler]what looks like a red head with Kurt, waving her off to baseball or something[/spoiler]. There's just alot of questions, and considering the fact that I'm only reading it because of Nocturne, I end up a bit like "wha??"

Though, I love Kurt as the [spoiler]retired X-man turned movie star, though, whats with his son being named TJ too??[/spoiler]

And Drew, what I do to combat all the crazy plotlines...I skip to pages with Nocturne. The rest just really isn't interesting me all that much....way way too much going on...

Oh, and about the Kurt and Jean thing...I saw it more as they were "sharing energy in a very naughty way" more than anything romantic. Or it was a "omg your saving my daughter, but your weak! let me help you [spoiler]with my tongue![/spoiler]"
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Post by Azur »

hmmm ... i thought that effectively, Kurt was married with Kymri and had this TJ son (have we seen him yet ?)
what with Nocturne ? let's say she's the one who got dumped in 616 by the Exiles, then was more or less "adopted" by our Kurt ? in Exiles #30 they bonded quite easily
...still, that lip lock irks me.
i could perfectly understand the kiss with Rachel during that danger room pirate session (UXN #450 ?) but that ? nowaynowaynoway :ick
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by Azur
hmmm ... i thought that effectively, Kurt was married with Kymri and had this TJ son (have we seen him yet ?)
what with Nocturne ? let's say she's the one who got dumped in 616 by the Exiles, then was more or less "adopted" by our Kurt ? in Exiles #30 they bonded quite easily
But he talks about how she loved him reading fairy tales to her, unless he was reading to a 20-21 yr old ;)

And we saw TJ once....i cant remember what issue....
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Post by idsunki »

All of these are valid complaints for the book. There seems to be a lot of continuity errors, including within the same issue.

Now, I like the whole Kurt/Jean thing Claremont did. It really makes sense. The Phoenix is a creature of passion and emotions. When Jean was with Scott (not the most secure or emotionally healthy individual), the Phoenix was a bit crazy. In the latest Endsong mini-series, a bit more was shown of this. With Kurt, who is emotionally a healthy person, the Phoenix is able to feed off positive emotions and feelings. Thus, while it is not sated, it is at least more focused on creation than destruction.

However! There are a great many flaws with the actual writing of the comic. Continuity errors with Claremont seemingly changing his mind from page-to-page on what is going on where and a poorly written script, I wouldn't recommend this book to anyone but the staunchest of X-Men fans. I could go on a huge rant as to why I think Claremont should take an extended vacation from writing comics, and maybe one day I will, but for now I'll just say that this could have been such a cool series.

Oh well.

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Post by Diablo »

It's clearly not Claremont's best work, ja.
I'm still waiting for him to reveal where he will lead us...
But some moments, like this Kurt kiss, I like a lot.

I think Nocturne is the TJ from Exiles, but I agree with everyone : it isn't clear AT ALL !!!
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Post by Saint Kurt »

I waited for the trade for this one and just got the first part, "Demons and Angels". I had to read it three times before I could really figure out what was going on.

I'm kind of lukewarm on the whole thing so far, though now that I finally have a good grasp on who the XMen/Marvel characters are and what their history is, I must admit I do enjoy stories that take them out of their continuity and put them in new situations. (Like I may be the only person on the planet who thought 1602 was cool.) That said, I will conceed that this is totally masturbatory for both the fans and the authors. It is so much more satisfying when they can tell a good story with the characters IN their proper timeline.

And I totally get what C is talking about with Claremont's writing style. I always feel the need to preface complaints about Claremont's work by saying that I adored Excalibur just so people think I'm not needlessly bashing. And I'm not, but in his newer work I'm beginning to get this weird subtext feel as though Claremont is saying "Look kids, this is COMICS!" Subtext is fine, but I know it's comics because I'm reading it in a comic book. It's subtext I don't need. Plus there's something about Claremont's plotting these days that loses me. This isn't the first time I've had to reread one of his arcs because I couldn't figure it out the first time. Complexity is fine, but there are a lot of pieces of paper with calligraphy on my wall that say I'm supposed to be pretty smart. I shouldn't be getting lost reading a comic book.

I had assumed the thing with Nocturne's mystery parentage was going to be explained in later books. It sounds like it's not. Hmmm. I guess that's what I get for assuming...

Still, I hadn't gotten any new comics in a while and once I figured out what was happening, it was kind of a fun read.

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Post by idsunki »

Originally posted by zamweasel
(Like I may be the only person on the planet who though 1602 was cool.)


Incorrect! That was some masterful storytelling. The artwork was quite above par. That was a comic worth reading.
Originally posted by zamweasel
That said, I will conceed that this is totally masturbatory for both the fans and the authors. It is so much more satisfying when they can tell a good story with the characters IN their proper timeline.
Correct! I agree with basically the rest of you post as well, but this part really sums it up for me. It seems like Claremont is playing "Find all the easter eggs for the old fans!" and not actually writing a comic book.

Oh well.

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Post by Diablo »

Originally posted by idsunki
Originally posted by zamweasel
(Like I may be the only person on the planet who though 1602 was cool.)


Incorrect! That was some masterful storytelling. The artwork was quite above par. That was a comic worth reading.
Oh, I thought 1602 was popular, wasn't it ??
I liked it a lot -though I would have liked to see a certain blue elf...
Not Gaiman's very best story, but an interesting one !

Concerning X-Men: the end, I,too, am a little bored these days : issue#5 was all bout Gambit... :yech
But Claremont's style still doesn't bother me. I still like his Uncanny title a lot.
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