Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

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Postby Confizzle » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:48 pm

But the plot does make sense, it's a straightfoward superhero story, hurrah.
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Postby chicory » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:35 pm

I also dislike space stories :(

But, it does seem like a straightforward adventure - so I'm sure it will be fun.

Warpath's vibranium(?) knives and willingness to kill does remind me a lot of Wolverine.

I also had a question about Nightcrawler. In #475, when Xavier is gathering up a team for the mission Kurt tells him of course he will go because, afterall, Xavier is still the man who saved his life. I think it's disturbing that the character is willing to go along with anything just because he thinks he owes this other man a debt.

Has Nightcrawler ever gone against Xavier over anything? (Onslaught doesn't count)
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Postby Angelique » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:02 pm

Well, of course Nightcrawler would go on this mission. They can't have a potential voice of reason hanging around on Earth during Civil War, after all. ;)
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Postby idsunki » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:59 pm

Nightcrawler has gone against Xavier in the past. Specifically in Excalibur during one of the big crossovers (can't remember which - Legion maybe?). Xavier comes to Muir Island because he needs their help, but instead of asking he just starts ordering them around. Nightcrawler is none too pleased with this.

This time around though, Kurt isn't such a hard-ass (that was during either the big muscled mullet phase or possibly the shaved head/goatee phase), and Xavier asks humbly and politely.

Which to Kurt would make all the difference in the world.
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:59 am

I can't wait until this damn space story is done.

It's good, for what it is, but not my thing at all. And apparently not anyone else around here's thing either. Bleh.
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Postby stupidusername » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:38 am

Art good, Plot bad. Maybe we'll finally see an end to the whole Shiar plots once and for all. Personally, I would like to see Korvac get killed just because I do not want Rachel getting involved with a Shiar. Look how much we have had to endure over the years because Xavier fell for Lilandra? Enough is enough. No more Shiar. Ever.


[Edited on 27/1/07 by stupidusername]
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Postby idsunki » Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:45 pm

I like the space story.

It evokes those classic X-Men space stories without trying to be too nostalgic. Plus it means that no matter how late Civil War ships, Uncanny can continue to come out each month (unlike Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, etc).

I just wish there was a bit more Kurt and a bit less Rachel. I know the story pretty much demands a lot of Rachel, but she was the focus of pretty much 70% of the entire Claremont arc recently, only sharing the spotlight with Psylocke.

Another bonus is that we don't have to worry about House of M, the Decimation, mutant politics on Earth, and all the usual X-Men cliches we've been dealing with over and over for years. While I like those stories too, it's nice to have a break once in awhile.
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Postby kamizzi » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:51 pm

For me, this space story is getting boring... more and more...
arts are very good but, please, i want it to end ;((
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Postby Feuerstein » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:49 pm

I really, really dislike this current Shi'ar arc, and I am NOT someone who dislikes all things space-related. (Heck, I'm a total Trekkie, and I know more about Star Wars than any of my guy friends.) I adored the Shi'ar stories from way back when. I don't even dislike the premise of this story - Xavier trying to correct past mistakes, political upheaval in the Shi'ar empire, Rachel needing closure on what happened to her family - all that is really, really cool.

Neither is Brubaker a bad writer - au contraire! But it's my opinion he's made some very big mistakes. I know the idea of doing an X-men issue, than a Vulcan-issue, repeat, sounds really cool, and it is cool to see the perspective from Vulcan's PoV - the problem is that it then cuts down on screentime for the X-men, who are the real stars, and thus their story gets squashed. Hence why this (utterlystupidfrellingannoyingomgcutmyheartoutplease) relationshop between Rachel and Korvus seems so rushed and sudden. And nobody aside from Rachel and Xavier has really been allowed to do anything; even now that the Starjammers are in the picture, Alex got, what, one scene with the father he never sees? If there were others, they certainly left no impression on my mind. And sometimes I completely forget Warpath is there, because Korvus has practically taken his place.

As for Nightcrawler, my theory is, no matter what Brubaker professes, he was only added to the cast because there was no where else for him to be. The writers know he has fans who want to see him so they can't cut him out, but they were at a loss with what to do with him. (Gee, they could have had him resolve whatever romantic issue there ever was between him and Rachel, but of course we're just supposed to ignore everything Claremont ever wrote, or they could have reunited him with Cerise... Kurt has had relations with the Shi'ar and Starjammers before, there are plenty of plots they could have come up with that would have included him as more than the Amazing Chaffeur.)

But, in response to what was said concerning Nightcrawler's agreement to go along by Xavier's request, I wouldn't say that the fact that Xavier saved his life is his only reason. I know he specifically said he couldn't say no to the man who saved his life, but that doesn't mean that's all there is to it. Kurt has gone up against Xavier's will in the past (remember the ol' image inducer? Xavier wanted Kurt to keep using it, but Kurt told him flat out he was done with hiding himself), but don't forget, at the end of The Draco Kurt told Xavier he was more of a father to him than anyone else. If Kurt decided to go on the mission solely per Xaviers's request, it was more out of loyalty and love than any debt he considers unrepaid.

It also seems to me that some parallels, though vague, could be drawn from his choice to accompany Xavier. Think about it: Scott, whom Xavier has more than once said he could not care about more if he were his own son, has veritably disowned Xavier. He wants nothing more to do with him because not only did Xavier lie to him, he also sent untrained children, one of whom was Scott's brother, into Krakoa where they (assumedly) died. Scott has very good reasons for being angry with Xavier, but Xavier, now either wiser or simply lonely, very much misses Scott. Kurt has told Xavier that he is the closest thing to a father he has, plus Xavier considers him to embody the dream of the X-men: "You've lived your whole life at the edge of such darkness, facing hatred and fear simply because of your appearance... and yet in all the years since I first met you and brought you to join the X-Men, I've never known you to give in to despair or even a trace of bitterness. No one better embodies the spirit the X-men seek to inspire in all mutantkind." (Excalibur #80) It only makes sense that Xavier would turn to Kurt now that his pet student has abandoned him.

[Edited on 3-9-07 by Feuerstein]
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:29 pm

Originally posted by Feuerstein
As for Nightcrawler, my theory is, no matter what Brubaker professes, he was only added to the cast because there was no where else for him to be. The writers know he has fans who want to see him so they can't cut him out, but they were at a loss with what to do with him. (Gee, they could have had him resolve whatever romantic issue there ever was between him and Rachel, but of course we're just supposed to ignore everything Claremont ever wrote, or they could have reunited him with Cerise... Kurt has had relations with the Shi'ar and Starjammers before, there are plenty of plots they could have come up with that would have included him as more than the Amazing Chaffeur.)


Your sig pic is making me horny, dude.

Maybe Xavier and Rachel are the only ones doing anything because this plot is about them? There is a limited amout of space (heh.) and adding any of that other stuff in would just bog it down. This is about tying up loose ends people have been rumbling about for ages, and telling the best story possible with them. It's not about giving everyone a fair share of screentime.

Do you really want to see Cerise again? Really? If so, what the hell is wrong with you? :X That's not even a loose end! That's a tied end! Leave it alone! I would doubt Brubaker's ability if he opened up that can of shit.


[Edited on 15-3-2007 by The Drastic Spastic]
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Postby Feuerstein » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:02 pm

They let everyone else untie "tied" ends all the time. No, I don't want to see Cerise again - she was my least favorite of his romantic interests. I was using that example to point out that there are plots they could have come up with which would have involved him more. And I get what you're saying about this being an Xavier- and Rachel-centric story. But the other characters who came along for the trip - Havok, Polaris, even Warpath - have said more, done more than our elf. (Though, Warpath has been pretty overlooked too.) Though they have to focus on the main characters, to almost totally ignore the others is, in my opinion, bad writing. Frankly, if Crawler were cut from this plot, nothing would have changed. Basically, his being there is pointless - if a brand new reader picked up an issue of Uncanny during this art, they might not even realize he's there.

I absolutely want Rachel to have a grand story. What's happened between the Shi'ar and her must be resolved, and I'm anxiously awaiting it. I don't need the other characters to be presented equally. I'd just like to be noticable. Honestly, I completely forgot Kurt was even in a few of the issues, Warpath too. It's okay to divvy out appearances unequally, but people shouldn't forget their favorite character was even present in an issue. That's how I feel, at any rate. Regarding the storyline specifically, I think the idea is pretty cool (Rachel's storyline especially, much as I dislike Korvus), but for some reason, despite the fights and random attacks by aliens, up until the most recent issue I didn't feel engaged or in suspense at all. I did somewhat in this latest issue, but only because of some stuff that happened with Rachel. The Shi'ar used to impress me - they certainly did when they took out Rachel's family. But this story has mostly left me dry. I don't mean to demean Brubaker, because I know a lot of peole are really liking what's he's doing. It may just be that this isn't the kind of story I'm interested at this moment, so I'm not as receptive.

(PS: Crawler is happy to hear his sleepiness has made you sweat. :bounce )
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Postby CmX » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:07 am

Brubaker is a great writer but he's not so hot on Uncanny. Shoddy characterization and a very boring "epic" of a storyline.

He needs to get the boot.
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Postby Feuerstein » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:45 am

Agreed.

Though I was rereading Deadly Genesis, and somehow I totally missed that Brubaker wrote that also (even though it should have been obvious, considering the whole thing's a lead in to the current Uncanny arc). I really liked Deadly Genesis - thought it had good character interaction and an interesting plot. Liked the bit of Scott and Rachel bonding (while they were imprisoned!) and also the Wolvie and Nightie scenes. Wish Banshee had been mourned a little bit more, but altogether, if I were basing my assessment of Brubaker on Deady Genesis, I'd say he's great. He probably is great, too, but because of the complexity of the plot, his writing has lost something in the current Uncanny story.
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:47 pm

Originally posted by Feuerstein
Frankly, if Crawler were cut from this plot, nothing would have changed. Basically, his being there is pointless - if a brand new reader picked up an issue of Uncanny during this art, they might not even realize he's there.


They had to bring him along. Someone's got to die.

(PS: Crawler is happy to hear his sleepiness has made you sweat. :bounce )


:naughty :shifty

Originally posted by CmX
Brubaker is a great writer but he's not so hot on Uncanny. Shoddy characterization and a very boring "epic" of a storyline.

He needs to get the boot.


And be replaced with who, exactly?

One boring storyline is not enough to make me say anything bad about Brubaker. It's unfortunate that they had to make it TWELVE FREAKING ISSUES LONG, but again, I still think he's a talented writer and one of the best Marvel has.
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Postby Feuerstein » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:37 am

Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
They had to bring him along. Someone's got to die.


Kurt's not dying! Not! Not! Nicht!
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:48 am

Originally posted by Feuerstein
Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
They had to bring him along. Someone's got to die.


Kurt's not dying! Not! Not! Nicht!


:(
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Postby Nandireya » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:26 am

Didn't Brubaker say that only about half the team were going to make it home? Someone's slated to die and some are just not going to come back IIRC. Kurt and James are about the only ones that have no reason to stay in space...so unless one or the other dies I figure they'll be home. Chuck's got Lilandra, Rachel's got that new dude who's name escapes me...Alex could want to pal around with dear old dad for a bit...Lorna's likely to stay with him if he does...

Still, even if Kurt does survive, I haven't been enjoying the X-Titles lately...I'm seriously considering defecting to DC...
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Postby Angelique » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:04 pm

Major spoiler!







Kurt will survive this. He's slated to appear in World War Hulk, and his possession of the Soulsword will be dealt with in the upcoming Finding Magik arc in New X-Men.



[Edited on 1/4/2007 by Angelique]
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Postby Feuerstein » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:23 pm

@Angelique: Really? Crap. I hoped they'd do something more interesting than bugger around with NXM. But ever since Amanda's appearance, I've been expecting it. *sigh* I heard spoilers slightly different than yours (nothing about WWH in any case) but, who knows, maybe they'll impress me.

My bookstore doesn't even get WWH... Is that the actual name of the series, or is it a storyline within a series?
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:44 am

Originally posted by Angelique
Major spoiler!







Kurt will survive this. He's slated to appear in World War Hulk, and his possession of the Soulsword will be dealt with in the upcoming Finding Magik arc in New X-Men.



Finding Magik? Now why would they want to go and do a thing like that? I hope she dies. :)
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Postby Angelique » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:12 am

World War Hulk is only just barely out, if I remember the date correctly. It's the next "big crossover event" or something like that. I'm not really interested in reading it yet.

I will be picking up NXM, however, because I was told that they would tie up some loose ends from both HoM and Nightcrawler's solo series.
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Postby Feuerstein » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:52 pm

But it's only a rumor NXM is going to do that, right? Or it's not guaranteed to deal with the Soulsword.

I'm sorry, I was just so hoping for a good role for Nighty as far as the Soulsword is concerned. If it's all dealt with in NXM, of course the main characters are going to be the NXM themselves - which is as it should be, it's their title for heaven's sake. But it will seem a letdown to me if all Kurt does is show up, hand over the Soulsword, kiss 'Manda, and go home. Especially since the last six issues of his solo series - the second half, in fact - revolved around his having the Soulsword. It'd be rather anticlimatic if, after all that, he just tossed it to Illyana with a, "Here, ya want it?"

Beyond that, I'm not to hot on any of these theories that Illyana is actually coming back... she's one of the characters who tends to actually stay dead, and we just run into a facisimile of her here and there.

But, as is my norm, I'm getting ahead of myself here... maybe nothing is going to happen, maybe I'm going to be blown away. I hope so. I really need to stop being so cynical. And I am enjoying NXM; I am. I didn't think I would, but I adore Mercury! :*)
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Postby kurtc » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:26 pm

Wow this was the first issue of this run that I actualy thought was realy good. I'm just going to be glad when this is all wrapped up.
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:22 am

omg guyz THEY AREN'T IN SPACE NO MORE.

Some points of interest:

1. Someone tell me what's "been done" to Caliban. He looks the same as he did before! As far as I can tell! Are they purposefully not telling us what happened to build suspence? Or was the artist meant to draw him differently and just forgot? So mysterious.

2. Several boring and annoying characters were left behind in space. Hahahahaha! The year of tedium will have been worth it if they all stay up there for a good long time. Especially Rachel.

3. Hepzibah's floppy unattached to any shirt sleeves. wtf.

4. "Queen of Wakanda" :rolleyes Go away.
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Postby Feuerstein » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:05 am

Hmm, I'll have to go over the issue again, because all I thought they were discussing about Caliban was that he'd been attacked in the beginning of the issue. But maybe I missed something. Honestly, I lost interest in Uncann throughout Shi'ar, though I kept reading it, and I'm not too fond of Brubaker, even though I fully believe he does butt-kickin awesome stuff on Captain America. And with this new arc, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. What exactly can go wrong anyhow? Night stuck with a half-crazed Xavier tracking Magneto, Storm meeting her old pals/minions the Morlocks, and Beast starting his own lethal adventure - that last bit is what I'm most interested in.

I'm not too upset about Alex and Lorna being in space still (especially the latter - I love Havok, but Polaris has never been a favorite of mine), or Rachel for that matter, since together they could make an awesome story. Really, the characters who returned to Earth were just baggage on the space trip. For an entire year, Nighty and Warpath did absolutely nothing consequential (except ramble about all the pretty stars - vital information), and I don't really get why Darwin came back to Earth since the whole point of him going after Vulcan was that he might be the only one who could get through to him. Guess they ditched that plot. Thus making Darwin... completely useless. Which sucks, because he's got awesome powers, but I don't want him to stick around long, so dang.

I want Rachel to come back fast though. (Sorry, Spaz. XD) I still live under the delusion that she and Kurt harbor secret feelings for each other. (Shh shh I know already, don't burst my bubble!)

Hepzibah needs to GO AWAY. But I like Storm. :shifty The Storm. Not Johnny Storm. Wish the FF would stick to their own title.

But ah, I think things may be looking up for Uncanny. Yippee! And if not, NXM and AXM are rockin' my world!

Oooh, and we should discuss - what did you all think of Larroca's art? I personally loved it, but then I'm a Larroca devotee, and some people were complaining that he's pulling a Greg Land and using celebrities as templates (some are even saying Nightcrawler looks like Tom Cruise, and while I don't see the resemblance, enough have said it to get me interested). And then there's his depiction of Valerie Cooper, which I don't mind because I really like that he's going for an element of realism he didn't have before. But it seems like the gulf between the "Larroca is incredible!" people and the "Larroca needs to burrrrrn" people has become very wide all of a sudden.

(... I'm done now.)
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