Uncanny X-force Thread

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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Bamfing_Bob » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:01 am

I feel Kurt's death was indeed for the greater good, but Darkholme's death I cannot honestly justify, at least right now...
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Angelique » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:10 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I will ne be convinced otherwise. There is no counter-argument that works to me. Bringing Wagner back completely overwrites any meaning (what little there may be in your opinion) to his death. It goes against the purpose of killing off any character.

That said -- Darkholme is here to stay, let's hope. For a while, at the least.


Over the past couple decades, the only purpose of killing off major comic book characters has been to whip the fans into a furor and (temprarily) boost sales among clueless speculators who think a "death of so-and-so" issue might be worth something. I'd simply be okay with bringing Kurt back by any means, but preferably by something simple like one of those miracles he always believed could happen.

Darkholme is the New Nightcrawler. I do not think he'll last long. Of course I'm dating myself, but I remember how long New Coke lasted, too. And why they brought back Coke Classic as quickly as they did. New Coke wasnt as good. "New Nightcrawler" also is not as good as Kurt Classic. But I'd prefer Darkholme actually evolved past vengeance at all cost, then went back to AOA a better person.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:16 pm

Comparing a character to a brand of soda-pop? That's really unfair. I think Remender has done a lot to bring this character out of his dark corner and is, even still, shaking him out and watching the dust fly.
There's going to be some serious blowback to AoANightcrawler being a part of this universe, or at least there should be.

I'm with Bob, and even Sundown.
Kill a character off? Great. Keep that character dead. Revive them? It has no meaning. Kurt is not Horus, he does not get to roll back out of the grave 3 days after being crucified. He's not that special, he's (despite how we prop him up so), just a blue-fuzzy-elf. He's no deus ex machina.
I say give his death some time to really be relevant. When his absence is a constant sting, evident in the writing and the characters' reactions, his absence should bring about his return.



:offtopic

That said,

What do people think of that cover, seriously? #33 is a really creepy cover! Notice the tattoo has the same color as the blood spatter on his face (and body). What clever artwork, it almost looks like the tattoo is blood on Wagner's face rather than Darkholme's natural body art. Could we be dead on here? Is this a fractured, mirrored version of Kurt Wagner that we've been dreading?
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Sundown » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:07 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I say give his death some time to really be relevant. When his absence is a constant sting, evident in the writing and the characters' reactions, his absence should bring about his return.



Ok, not sure if this is off-topic or on, continuing the relevance of death concept, but I suppose it ties in...

My opinion is that the original Nightcrawler was written into a corner to the point where Marvel seemed to have little idea what to do with him. I believe Asmus expressed an interest in writing him again, and it seems as though I read Hickman wanted him as a spare member of the Avengers(pretty blue wall paper), but the X-Men division of Marvel editorial had zero interest in him. Again, in my opinion, this was a self-made mess. The first major screw up was defining the character almost solely by religion. I'm not saying I had a problem with his Catholicism -- far from it. In the beginning, it was used just as a feature of the character. That's something that worked with Kitty's Jewishness, and Daredevil being Catholic. The key for both was that it was an aspect of their personality and motivation, not the whole dang thing. Interest in Nightcrawler dropped pretty significantly when he put on the priest collar, at which time his personality was lost. While the idea of a priest-who-looks-like-a-devil and kicks butt on occasion might seem like a good one, it was no replacement for a swashbuckling, flirtatious devil-may-care fuzzy elf who could touch the hearts of thousands of readers. This character development snafu had an attempt at correction under Aguirre-Sacasa in the solo, and briefly with Claremont's return, but it seemed too late by then. Once the quiet, serious religious Kurt was included in the film, that was it for the character -- he was pigeon-holed. Not only was he not gaining new fans, he was losing old ones, while interest in Wolverine, Storm and Rogue took off after the films. If I'm not mistaken, that fairly serious persona was even used in the non-Evo cartoon.

I don't especially care for the direction Marvel has gone since Quesada came into power, and after him, Alonso. For me, it's not so much the gritty nature of things (as I enjoy a story exploring some serious things, vs. a Disney-esque theme), it's the lack of diversity. For whatever reason, Cyclops and the Summers clan are who Marvel X-Men editors have chosen to push for a decade or more. Wolverine is front and centre as a cash cow. Visually distinctive characters are almost non-existent, Beast being the exception. You'd think all mutants were super-models. Nightcrawler and his unique personality isn't the only one to fall by the wayside during this time, but he's the one they killed off, after Jean Gray. Marvel seems to be set on continuing this direction, which is a whole 'nother subject best not dissected here.

Back to Nightcrawler though -- the pacifist, overly-serious religious persona doesn't fit with the direction of the books. His sense of humour was given to Pixie, as was his job as teleporter, and casual readers and even long-time readers who once liked the character no longer cared. New readers coming in expected to see something like the movie depiction, so that's what Marvel went with, and it was a resounding failure. The impact of the character's death was felt mainly by his hardcore fans with everyone else apathetic or in other words, acting much the same way they act about Xavier, now. (The same thing happened to his character, IMO.)

Darkholme was brought in under the design concept imagery of the original Nightcrawler, but in an edgier version, to fit with the current Marvel trend. If I'm not completely mistaken, the concept of Darkholme was based on 616 Kurt in the latter part of the Excalibur run -- the sabre and loincloth era, which he had lines like "I want you to go in there and make a mess" -- kind of a tough-guy thing. Darkholme even had a similar costume in the AoA revisit. Incidentally, TJ's father seems based on a similar model, though obviously much older.

My feeling -- again opinion -- is that Darkholme was introduced to try and make the casual reader or new reader gain a new insight into the character imagery. To not see Nightcrawler and think "priest & boring". It keeps alive the visual design and theme of Nightcrawler -- blue, sword-fighting, teleporting devil -- while being an antithesis of the original's personality. The original appealed a great deal to female readers or those who shared similar tastes. Darkholme is aimed at male readers. To kill Darkholme off now, before a dent has been made in Nightcrawler's image is an absolute waste. Kid Kurt has been given a similar personality to Wagner, but the character design is an Evo concept. Personally, that isn't the design concept I want replacing the original. Personalities and motivation can change depending on the writer and how they want to develop him, but once the Evo version is the visually recognizable one, that's it for the character. We'll be stuck with Kid Kurt from now on.

I'm fine with them bringing in Darkholme to reset the character and try and pick up new numbers from a different sector of the fan base, but that is me. Sure, I miss early years and Excalibur Kurt -- it was an incredible character and Dave's masterpiece. But from the time he left Excalibur, he was on a steady decline, which was heart-breaking to watch. If this is what it takes to eradicate the mess he became and re-vamp him back (eventually) similar to the original idea, so be it.
I still think fans need to make their thoughts known to Marvel, though, rather than thinking Marvel does anything resembling research into what people want to see. Again, just me.

Ult_Sm86 wrote:What do people think of that cover, seriously? #33 is a really creepy cover! Notice the tattoo has the same color as the blood spatter on his face (and body). What clever artwork, it almost looks like the tattoo is blood on Wagner's face rather than Darkholme's natural body art. Could we be dead on here? Is this a fractured, mirrored version of Kurt Wagner that we've been dreading?


Oh now THAT would be a twist all right.

Tedesco's art is brilliant on that picture. It's graphic, frightening and clearly shows Kurt driven beyond reason. It makes me wonder if he'll really go insane, or if that's just his expression when he finally catches Blob. The pinpoint white lights in his eyes are a good touch, and, to me, it's looking more like there is a scar under that tattoo. I still wish we'd gotten some explanation of the red eyes verses yellow eyes. Darkholme was shown with yellow ones in the two AoA arcs.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Angelique » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:14 pm

Regarding Wagner's death, I feel that every opportunity Marvel had to make it really powerful and relevant was already blown. It could have resulted in the disbanding of X-Force, if Wolverine was actually thinking instead of just stabbing stuff. It could have been the cause of Schism. (Heck, Kurt could have led Schism if he had survived.) Hope could have been a much more compelling character. Colossus could have remained a decent guy. Wolverine could have taken a moment to recognize the failings on his part that contributed to Kurt's death and a lot of other needless deaths, restoring honor and a little more complexity to what's sadly been a stabbity one note character of late. Wagner's death should not have happened for story, legal, and ethical reasons. (That death may not have violated the letter of Marvel's agreement with Dave Cockrum, but it does violate the spirit of it.) Since they went that route, they compounded the problems by simply failing to show that death having any realistic impact.

I'm not saying Darkholme should be killed off, but why on earth does anyone think Marvel needs another character geared toward young male readers? Why does Marvel think they need to stuff another vengeance driven sociopath into books already filled with a monotonous glut of anti-heroes? I don't want readers to associate Nightcrawler with being boring and preachy, but I also could do without readers seeing him as just another stabbity rage machine. The danger with the direction Darkholme has taken is that he is a one-note character, and the only thing that would make him interesting to me is if they have him thinking about something other than vengeance.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:25 pm

Sundown, I couldn't agree more.

Religion is NOT spirituality. A spiritual character is always easy to embrace and take in. A religious character, not so much. Darkholme has all the makings of being the Kurt we lost, with a little tinkering, -- but i'd rather see him come into his own.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Sundown » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:54 pm

Angelique wrote:Regarding Wagner's death, I feel that every opportunity Marvel had to make it really powerful and relevant was already blown. It could have resulted in the disbanding of X-Force, if Wolverine was actually thinking instead of just stabbing stuff. It could have been the cause of Schism. (Heck, Kurt could have led Schism if he had survived.).....


I think that would have depended on Marvel being willing to give Kurt some character focus, which hadn't been done on a story arc since Chuck Austen. Second Coming was about Hope and Scott/Emma. Even Wolverine and X-Force were kind of secondary during that time. Kurt's death was incidental, which is for me, as a fan, insulting. They played it up to be a big martyr thing and a noble sacrifice, but, instead of focusing on his death and its impact, they focused more on Hope and then Wolverine's grief. Yeah, it was crappy, IMO. No, the reactions weren't especially realistic, but that's probably to be expected in a comic book platform. Kurt's death was essentially used to develop Logan's character and give him some angst scenes, and could possibly have precipitated Schism and Wolverine finally having enough. It definitely was what motivated Hank to side with Logan over Scott.

Angelique wrote:I'm not saying Darkholme should be killed off, but why on earth does anyone think Marvel needs another character geared toward young male readers? Why does Marvel think they need to stuff another vengeance driven sociopath into books already filled with a monotonous glut of anti-heroes? I don't want readers to associate Nightcrawler with being boring and preachy, but I also could do without readers seeing him as just another stabbity rage machine. The danger with the direction Darkholme has taken is that he is a one-note character, and the only thing that would make him interesting to me is if they have him thinking about something other than vengeance.


Rightly or wrongly, Marvel is all about focusing on the boy/young man market. We wouldn't have so much in the way of Chuck Norris personalities and peek-a-boo girl costumes otherwise.
I think Marvel may underestimate the number of female, LGBT and minority readers, but I don't have the numbers to say that with any certainty. Based on their direction and the characters they focus on, I would guess they don't view those target groups as especially significant.

I'm all for Darkholme being developed further. Remender, IMO, got a base started, but Darkholme is as one-note in his revenge as Wagner was in his religion, at the end. That's never a good idea for a successful, interesting character. Personally, I'd like to see Darkholme developed more alongside Mystique, as that is an angle never explored with Kurt Wagner. I'd enjoy him becoming like Rogue was to her. I think if anyone were able to break through to Darkholme, the hollow man, it would be Raven.

Marvel's shortage of compelling bad guys is pretty amusing. They take well developed villains and work them around so they're eventually with the heroes, for example Magneto and Emma. It would be kind of interesting to see the reverse.
I'd like to see what Wolverine would do, having this twin of his best friend as a long-term enemy. Darkholme is a tragic character, again like Mags, who might make a good sympathetic villain, at least until the next writer takes an interest in redeeming him. I mean how many X-Men haven't done at least some character development time on the wrong side of things?

Regardless, the character has potential and it would be a shame to waste it, especially if it means being stuck permanently with Evo Kurt.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Dazy » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:15 pm

I'd like to take a moment to mention WatXM cartoon Kurt? By far the best animated incarnation that kept so closely to his nature. I just wish it lasted more than one season. :/ (Especially because season 2 would have had AoA but that's a different story...)

Anyway, I am really loving all the points everyone's bringing up about Kurt's death and Darkholme as a character. You're making me think of things I hadn't thought of before. I'm loving it.

But I'm going to derail for a moment here and bring out the cover to the X-Force relaunch, if you don't mind??? http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbnee ... o1_500.jpg
The lineup seems to be
-Storm
-Puck
-Psylocke
-That chick with the arms (whose name I can never remember)
-Fantobabe
Which I'm guessing is definitely EVA, or, considering there is a pony tail, EVA merged with Fantomex.

But seriously, Storm???? What are you doing there??? Suddenly a mohawk?? I have so many "why???"s to this.
Something's telling me it's an alternate Storm, since she has a full head of hair in the WatXM preview cover with the circus things.

Speculations, anyone?
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Bamfing_Bob » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:28 am

I guess I am not going to be getting Uncanny X-Force anymore...
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:11 am

I am wondering if it has to do with her separation from T'Challa?
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Wahnsinn » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:31 am

Sundown wrote:Darkholme was brought in under the design concept imagery of the original Nightcrawler, but in an edgier version, to fit with the current Marvel trend. If I'm not completely mistaken, the concept of Darkholme was based on 616 Kurt in the latter part of the Excalibur run -- the sabre and loincloth era, which he had lines like "I want you to go in there and make a mess" -- kind of a tough-guy thing. Darkholme even had a similar costume in the AoA revisit. Incidentally, TJ's father seems based on a similar model, though obviously much older.

You've got it backwards. The loincloth costume was after AoA. I started getting into comics with AoA and experienced the loincloth period as it happened, rather than getting it in back-issues. I checked the numbers: #87 was the first after AoA, and #98 was the loincloth. :)

I don't think it was impossible for Kurt to get written out of the corner. It wouldn't have been easy, but it was doable. I don't know whether to blame the writers or editors. Maybe a little of both? After the trainwreck of "The Draco," nobody really did anything with him. He occasionally came out of the wallpaper to remind us of how religious and mopey he was or, later, to get stabbed in the chest and pout about being useless. It was like the writers who had him didn't know what to do with him but couldn't/wouldn't hand him over to anyone else, assuming someone else had some good ideas. Perhaps the editors were focused on other things and brushed aside any proposals to work on Kurt. I don't know. Only those involved really know, and that's not the kind of info they tend to share.

Honestly, I think Marvel and DC are scrambling for sales. They're desperately trying to be relevant, which wouldn't be so bad if it didn't come across as just one more gimmick. Much like Kurt was written into a corner, they've backed themselves into one that will be their demise if they don't get out of it fast. I think they've forgotten how to attract and keep an audience.

Bringing it back to Darkholme, I think they could do something interesting with him. They're making it look like he might not make it out of this arc, but that could be to not give away the end of the story. I think it was the solicitation for one of the new X-Force titles that left open the possibility of more members than were shown on the cover. I'd rather he not end up in the Brotherhood because I don't see that as consistent with his character. Most of the heroes from AoA were very tough characters by necessity who occasionally did questionable things, but they still had the core values of heroes. Deep down, they still wanted to save the world to see it be better. That's not what the BoEM is about, so it's hard for me to believe Darkholme would go in that direction.

On a random note, am I the only one confused by Daken being in this at all? He was rather dead at the end of his solo title. Even if he faked blowing himself up, he was told in no uncertain terms that he had destroyed his healing factor and was dying. It'd be nice if they'd address that. :?
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Sundown » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:40 am

Wahnsinn wrote:
Sundown wrote:Darkholme was brought in under the design concept imagery of the original Nightcrawler, but in an edgier version, to fit with the current Marvel trend. If I'm not completely mistaken, the concept of Darkholme was based on 616 Kurt in the latter part of the Excalibur run -- the sabre and loincloth era, which he had lines like "I want you to go in there and make a mess" -- kind of a tough-guy thing. Darkholme even had a similar costume in the AoA revisit. Incidentally, TJ's father seems based on a similar model, though obviously much older.

You've got it backwards. The loincloth costume was after AoA. I started getting into comics with AoA and experienced the loincloth period as it happened, rather than getting it in back-issues. I checked the numbers: #87 was the first after AoA, and #98 was the loincloth. :)


Ah, cool, I knew they were related but was trying to put the chicken before the egg. I was reading at the time, but the years can muddle together. That's a lot of blue mileage. ;) Come to think of it, 616 Kurt's loincloth and swords might have had to do with the popularity of the AoA arc. Maybe they thought the gritty character got a good reception.

Wahnsinn wrote:After the trainwreck of "The Draco," nobody really did anything with him.


It makes me wonder, considering that arc basically ended Austen's career, if other writers were afraid to touch him.

Wahnsinn wrote:Honestly, I think Marvel and DC are scrambling for sales. They're desperately trying to be relevant, which wouldn't be so bad if it didn't come across as just one more gimmick. Much like Kurt was written into a corner, they've backed themselves into one that will be their demise if they don't get out of it fast. I think they've forgotten how to attract and keep an audience.

Absolutely. The comic genre has always been unique from other forms of entertainment. It's like Marvel and DC are trying to turn it into something it's not, to attract new readers. Yet if they lure in reader by films or games, they don't stay, because characters are no longer written in a compelling and consistent manner. They can get a gimmick fix in other mediums with less investment. In short, alienating old readers to obtain new readers isn't the best idea, it needs to be a compromise. The same things that originally got those old readers to invest so much time and interest in the genre would work to turn new readers into long term ones.
Wahnsinn wrote:Bringing it back to Darkholme, I think they could do something interesting with him. They're making it look like he might not make it out of this arc, but that could be to not give away the end of the story.

I hope that's the case.
Wahnsinn wrote:On a random note, am I the only one confused by Daken being in this at all? He was rather dead at the end of his solo title. Even if he faked blowing himself up, he was told in no uncertain terms that he had destroyed his healing factor and was dying. It'd be nice if they'd address that. :?


Yeah, I wondered about that. I think Remender was just fishing for an angle to give everyone on X-Force personal stakes with members of the Brotherhood. Betsy was a given, as she has been a focus character throughout, I think he just had to find excuses for everyone else. I think that's where Darkholme's wife came in, to be honest. She seemed like a thrown in plot-device. Wolverine has so many enemies, it was probably hard to choose one that would really hit home in a big way for him, to the point where the arc was going to change him as a character. Remender talked about having to get approval for some particular part of the story in this final arc, that he didn't think he could get approved. I'm really, really wondering what that is. I don't feel like it is Wolverine's change of heart, as that's been on the books for some time, judging by interviews. They knew they wanted him on Uncanny Avengers and the whole point of AvX was to get to the point of merging the two franchises. Then, the whole point of M-Day and Hope was to get to the point of AvX. I think all this has been planned for years.

With Fentomex added now to the new UXF line-up post Remender -- she's either a female Fanto or EVA in Fanto's costume, by the looks -- that's all team members accounted for, including Evan, but still no sign of Darkholme. Bishop is the other hinted at future member of UXF.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Wahnsinn » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:37 pm

Sundown wrote:Ah, cool, I knew they were related but was trying to put the chicken before the egg. I was reading at the time, but the years can muddle together. That's a lot of blue mileage. ;) Come to think of it, 616 Kurt's loincloth and swords might have had to do with the popularity of the AoA arc. Maybe they thought the gritty character got a good reception.

Ellis was the writer at that time. It wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to take Kurt in that direction anyway.

It makes me wonder, considering that arc basically ended Austen's career, if other writers were afraid to touch him.

Well, it wasn't Kurt's fault the arc was horrible. It would've been horrible attached to any character. Besides, it's not exactly unusual for disliked stories to get ignored. It wasn't a long-running thing, unlike the priest stuff, and probably could've been dismissed as a fever dream or something.

Absolutely. The comic genre has always been unique from other forms of entertainment. It's like Marvel and DC are trying to turn it into something it's not, to attract new readers. Yet if they lure in reader by films or games, they don't stay, because characters are no longer written in a compelling and consistent manner. They can get a gimmick fix in other mediums with less investment. In short, alienating old readers to obtain new readers isn't the best idea, it needs to be a compromise. The same things that originally got those old readers to invest so much time and interest in the genre would work to turn new readers into long term ones.

Not only do they manage to alienate old readers, but they've created a standard format that is probably unattractive to new readers. I really think the move to elongated story arcs was a mistake. Six issues just to get one full story? Are they even thinking about what kind of time and financial investment that is, between trips to stores and often $4 price tags? The average Marvel story arc will run $24 and take 2 hours (assuming a generous 20 minutes per book) to read, and that's stretched over a 6-month release schedule if nothing is delayed. It's possible to get a couple Blu-rays for 4 hours of movie entertainment, not counting extras, or 4 paperback novels that each take several hours to read for the same amount of money. It used to be you could grab almost any random comic and expect to get a full story you could understand, even if it had some long-running threads weaved within it. Comics no longer represent a cheap, easy-to-pick-up hobby.

I think all this has been planned for years.

The big HoM-to-AvX arc was definitely planned, at least the broad strokes. I don't think they worked out all the details, so some things feel forced or don't seem to make sense. As for Remender's plans, I think he might have taken a similar approach at times: plug things in to fit the plot he has in mind. That may be why I've had more trouble with UXF as it's progressed. His character work is often strong, but I'm not sure the villains for this arc make sense from a continuity standpoint.

With Fentomex added now to the new UXF line-up post Remender -- she's either a female Fanto or EVA in Fanto's costume, by the looks -- that's all team members accounted for, including Evan, but still no sign of Darkholme. Bishop is the other hinted at future member of UXF.

Maybe it's the female Fantomex thing he didn't expect to get approval for? Or maybe he gives Deadpool his healing factor back. ;)
Is Bishop supposed to be a member? I know he's supposed to be involved with the title somehow, but I haven't been reading all the interviews and stuff.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Sundown » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:24 pm

Wahnsinn wrote:Is Bishop supposed to be a member? I know he's supposed to be involved with the title somehow, but I haven't been reading all the interviews and stuff.


He's suppose to be someone they go up against very early, but the prediction is that he'll end up joining. It wouldn't surprise me, given that the title is not only looking female heavy (maybe they're testing the waters for a female only book?) but also is composed of minorities. Storm & Bets are obvious, Puck is a size minority, Spiral is an alien and who knows what Femtomex will be -- a clone of a clone who used to be a ship I guess. It's the opposite extreme of the other X-books.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:38 pm

Wahnsinn wrote: After the trainwreck of "The Draco," nobody really did anything with him. He occasionally came out of the wallpaper to remind us of how religious and mopey he was or, later, to get stabbed in the chest and pout about being useless.



Like I said before, Wagner was poorly handled from the late 90's through to his death. No one wanted to touch him, no one felt comfortable with doing so. The writers of that time were not concerned with religious characters and the ones who were tended to not be very good at writing anyways (Austen, for one). There's obviously more to it than that, editors may have chosen that his relevance was waning and wanted to wait for a writer to show up with a feasible story to bring him back into the fold. Or they may have just said "After Austen's blunder, we're leaving him alone for awhile."

From Austen's perspective, a lot of what he wanted was not explored/allowed by the Editors.

From the Editors of that time, he was not allowed to do it because it was ludicrous and denigrating the efforts of his fellow writers of the time. It would set back a lot of their plans.

If 5 writers on 5 books say "We're going to have Scott do _____ and Kurt do _____" and Austen says "I want to have Nightcrawler become a God to the mutant race and let's kill Scott 'cause he's a jerk." (Not saying this is what happens/happened) but you can see how if he planned something radically off the mark from what was going on, he might've been given the thumbs down.

I doubt anyone, after Austen, wanted to approach the character after that. Until someone realized the AoA version might be easier to handle/smooth out.

Enter Remender, enter the idea of surfacing a an alternate version of a character who everyone knows, an alternate version only some know about, and put him in the center of a bloody war, tasked by Logan.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Sundown » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:34 pm

Seems here might be confirmation that the unknown female on the team is probably a female clone of Fanto or EVA, and Bishop may be the other member (as they are spending an awful lot of time designing the look and costume of a villain for one or two issues). http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/10/1 ... interview/
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:50 pm

Puck and Spiral huh?

At least the team is different. I may not like the title continuing past the purpose Logan set for it, but we'll see. I'll give it a shot, no promises.

Maybe Kurt Darkholme isn't revealed yet. Could we finally have our Kuroro relationship we've constantly fantasized about? (:shifty ... Well, not constantly. )
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Sundown » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:57 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:Maybe Kurt Darkholme isn't revealed yet. Could we finally have our Kuroro relationship we've constantly fantasized about? (:shifty ... Well, not constantly. )


Kurt and mohawk Storm....mwahahaha

Yeah, there's stuff coming out of a comic con in NY now. Humphries is saying the book will continue with Remender's direction of focusing on Psylocke.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:28 am

To quote Michael Bluth,

I have no problem with that.

There is nothing about that direction that phases me as unsurprising or a poor decision. It makes sense, it would be too risky to go in another route at this point-in-time with where the characters stand. (Post AvX).
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Dazy » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:27 pm

I think Bishop is going to be an enemy.

I still really, really hate the idea of Storm on this team. She's a survivor, but she isn't a killer. She has NEVER been a killer, and she's always been against it. I don't understand the logic behind this.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Sundown » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:59 pm

Dazy wrote:I don't understand the logic behind this.


Because Betsy can't carry a title with Puck and Spiral. :P
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:29 am

I'm fine with Puck & Spiral being on that team, that's a great team.

Who cares if Storm's on it. If they explain it, they explain it. I'll judge whether I think the explanation is cheap or not when it comes, until then I'm trying to reserve judgments.
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Bamfing_Bob » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:36 am

Still, this may be a good title. But no Kurt and no Wade leaves Bob a dull boy. Gonna stick with my current stash: Uncanny Avengers, Happy (image comics), X-Treme X-Men, and Before Watchmen. Without those two characters to keep my attention, I don't feel it is worth the time or trouble...
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:58 am

Bamfing_Bob wrote:Still, this may be a good title. But no Kurt and no Wade leaves Bob a dull boy. Gonna stick with my current stash: Uncanny Avengers, Happy (image comics), X-Treme X-Men, and Before Watchmen. Without those two characters to keep my attention, I don't feel it is worth the time or trouble...



No Wolverine & The X-Men!? That title is awesome!
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Re: Uncanny X-force Thread

Postby Dazy » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:00 am

I second that. WatXM is my favorite title out there right now.
Even if #18 nearly made me cry for several reasons.
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