Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

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Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

So I don't know what your take is, but I've been picking up the trail for awhile and am pretty sure Marvel is sprinkling all the right seeds.

Image

Rachel is back, Lockheed & Kitty are back together and chilling out with both Rachel and soon Kurt (Darkholme :AoA) and though they're on separate teams from Colossonaut (Juggolossus? Pietor), they're still his friend and they are all X-Men at the end of the day.
It's the first time, in a long time all these characters have been all together, or in just the right places, for something like this to fold into place and happen. And I don't think that's a mistake that all the pieces are moving accordingly...

It only seems logical that the next step, after splitting the X-Men into two teams, is that somehow, the fall of the X-Men will happen again.

I mean, Avengers VS X-Men? This hooplah about Hope? It all seems to be leading up to something big, and I think we can expect the fallout of that to include our favorite team ever (and FUZZY BLUE ELF!) heading up some new adventures!

It won't be the same, and maybe it shouldn't be, but I'm holding out hope that this is where they're headed!

[Edited on 14/12/11 by Ult_Sm86]

[Edited on 14/12/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

Post by Indigo_Lady »

Excalibur was my first introduction to Nightcrawler and I have to say one of my favorite comic books of all time. I would love it if they brought it back, but NOT with anyone but the real 616 Kurt Wagner. If Marvel thinks they are going to get me as a Nighty fan to except the AoA version by evoking Excalibur, they have another thing coming. Excalibur was a fun, lighthearted comic. It wouldn't be anything like it, especially given the several dark, edgy characters on the cover, including Darkholme.

I'm mildly interested, but I'm not going to send them the wrong message. They don't get any of my money until the original Nightcrawler is resurrected. :shakeno
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Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Bah.

I would read it, no matter what.

Rachel has gotten extremely edgier over the last few years as has Kitty. Wolverine & The X-Men #'s 1 & 2 were evidence of that. Light hearted humor of the situations aside, they're definitely more grown up now.

And maybe Marvel will use an Excalibur rekindling to lighten up some of these characters, including Darkholme. You never know...
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Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

Post by Bamfing_Bob »

I'd buy that...
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Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

Post by Wahnsinn »

The AvX thing is related to the return of the Phoenix, which would be a good reason to bring Rachel back along with her giant-Phoenix-sword-carrying boyfriend. They even set that all up through dragging her astral form into AoX and making her look a lot like Jean as Dark Phoenix. As I understand it, she also lost her Phoenix remnant (as did the sword?) while out in space. The Cuckoos lost their bit of the cosmic bird around the same time. Hope's been being groomed as the new host (or something) since her first appearance, but all the pieces had to come together before the climax of that plot in AvX.

Am I the only one getting the sense that AoA Kurt is going to remain very much hidden from the chars not in X-Force? Unless Wolvie changes his mind, that's meant to be a covert ops team. Only its members know about it so far.

I just don't see them hinting at a new (new old?) Excalibur. It's not like they made any effort to rezz the title with anything resembling the old cast before they killed off Kurt. Then again, there is an Otherworld arc coming up in UXF, so what do I know? ;)
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Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

I think they'll brake Rachel up with whats-her-face.

And you never know, they might keep just a handful of the old Excalibur members and put them with a some other characters. New members to the team.

And I don't know how he can be so hidden, I think that won't last long if that's the case.
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Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

Post by Wahnsinn »

Break Rachel up with Shiar-man-whose-name-I've-forgotten? Nah. With Gladiator's kid and Broo in the school, they've got some ingredients for drama and/or comedy among the alien folk.

They've done a fine job of hiding Deadpool so far. X-Force is based in another state (Arizona?), so it shouldn't be too hard to keep people from crossing paths if that's the plan to which everyone's agreed. AoA Kurt has no ties to anyone but members of X-Force, so it's not like there's a lot of incentive for him to blow his cover.

As much as I'd like to see the old Excalibur team back together, I don't think now is the right time to add another satellite X-title. It'd probably end up a retroactive mini after 6-10 issues. There are simply too many X-books to sustain another. Frankly, I think the only reason they haven't given GH the axe is because they don't want to get rid of it before the climax of Hope's story. Unless it's doing fantastically outside the US and/or in trades, it's not selling well enough to justify its continued existence. They really need to trim the line before thinking about adding anything new.
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Post by tears~fall~like~glass »

Korvus is his name, and technically Rachel broke up with him way back in Emperor Vulcan. Regardless, they've apparently had this on/off thing. Their whole relationship has never been particularly clear besides the fact that it's based on the parts of the Phoenix they both possessed. I can't even begin to describe how much I dislike him with the exception that I really wished Rachel had let him suffocate to death in space while she was fighting Gladiator instead of saving him. -_-

Also, as far as I know, X-force has been based in Angel's Aerie, which is somewhere in Colorado in the Rockies.

I'd be interested in an Excalibur book, but I guess we'll see what happens.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

[/ AoA Kurt has no ties to anyone but members of X-Force, so it's not like there's a lot of incentive for him to blow his cover.
I'm sorry Wahnsinn, I know you're really knowledgable and experienced in this stuff, but I gotta take a moment to really disagree strongly here. I find it really illogical to assume they'd take Darkholme out of AoA and not have him interact at least a little with someone in the 616 Marvel U. In fact, to say he won't altogether or there's no incentive, is highly unlikely. I mean, once he finds out about Mystique?
To put it bluntly, if they don't have him do this? There would've been no point in pulling him out, other than for Logan's sake. And that in-and-of-itself is even a slightly good enough reason. Logan-drama sells a lot more books than Kitty Pryde drama, that's for sure.
Let me proposition it this way, why would they kill off a character whose fanbase was (admittedly) shrinking and bring in an edgier version just to squirrel him away? He may be secluded to that tile alone for a bit... but I think Tom/Axel/Aaron/Remender would be fucking idiots to not utilize a great catalyst to some serious upset/drama. How do you know bringing him over isn't going to be one of the big upsets in the AoA plot coming up in May?

And I'm pretty sure Kitty is going to want to meet him. And maybe Rachel too, at least during this return to AoA in April/May they're planning. Maybe for a short time he'll be hidden, but I don't see that lasting past February.
s. There are simply too many X-books to sustain another. Frankly, I think the only reason they haven't given GH the axe is because they don't want to get rid of it before the climax of Hope's story.
I don't see GH surviving AvX. In fact, I don't see it making it past spring. And Excalibur is one of those titles that they know people might shell out for. You're saying they need to trim the line, but the problem is they have so many great characters they have to have multiple teams. The downfall of that is right now a lot of teams suck. I think if they got a new Excalibur crew together? They'd at least get the "curious albeit highly difficult to impress" crowd to buy at least the first two issues.

If anything, the AvX incident is going to shrink the number of titles.
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Post by Wahnsinn »

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I'm sorry Wahnsinn, I know you're really knowledgable and experienced in this stuff, but I gotta take a moment to really disagree strongly here. I find it really illogical to assume they'd take Darkholme out of AoA and not have him interact at least a little with someone in the 616 Marvel U. In fact, to say he won't altogether or there's no incentive, is highly unlikely. I mean, once he finds out about Mystique?
I didn't say he wouldn't interact with anybody at all, just that he'd likely be sticking to the X-Force crew. They're the ones he knows. He wasn't exactly a social butterfly in AoA, and the two people he seemed to like, Switchback and Damask, don't exist in 616. I'd say he has incentive to seek Mystique out, but she's currently dead. Again.
To put it bluntly, if they don't have him do this? There would've been no point in pulling him out, other than for Logan's sake. And that in-and-of-itself is even a slightly good enough reason. Logan-drama sells a lot more books than Kitty Pryde drama, that's for sure.
Obviously, they'll play up the drama with Logan. They've already met, and he'll be on Logan's covert execution squad. Sticking him in the middle of the school, though, might be something they'll avoid for now because it'd raise some questions about that squad that Logan wouldn't want to answer.
Let me proposition it this way, why would they kill off a character whose fanbase was (admittedly) shrinking and bring in an edgier version just to squirrel him away? He may be secluded to that tile alone for a bit... but I think Tom/Axel/Aaron/Remender would be fucking idiots to not utilize a great catalyst to some serious upset/drama. How do you know bringing him over isn't going to be one of the big upsets in the AoA plot coming up in May?
The plot of which you speak is a new ongoing spin-off title set in the AoA universe, picking up from where things are left there in UXF's upcoming point-one issue. There's currently no indication that the mainstream titles will interact with it beyond UXF #19.1 presenting an event that occurs "five minutes" before Age of Apocalypse #1. It's on its own after that, and UXF heads off to Otherworld.
And I'm pretty sure Kitty is going to want to meet him. And maybe Rachel too, at least during this return to AoA in April/May they're planning. Maybe for a short time he'll be hidden, but I don't see that lasting past February.
Sure, they'd want to meet him if they knew he existed. The trouble is that they don't. AvX could easily be used to blow the team's cover, but I don't see Logan or any other member of X-Force doing so intentionally. It kind of defeats their purpose. Keeping Deadpool and Kurt away from the rest of the X-Men keeps the questions of why and when Logan's been working with them off the table.
I don't see GH surviving AvX. In fact, I don't see it making it past spring. And Excalibur is one of those titles that they know people might shell out for. You're saying they need to trim the line, but the problem is they have so many great characters they have to have multiple teams. The downfall of that is right now a lot of teams suck. I think if they got a new Excalibur crew together? They'd at least get the "curious albeit highly difficult to impress" crowd to buy at least the first two issues.

If anything, the AvX incident is going to shrink the number of titles.
According to Asmus, GH is safe to #17. If sales don't come up, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends with that issue or shortly thereafter.

"Excalibur" is a title for which they haven't seen the sales they've wanted in its last two incarnations. The second name reboot (New Excalibur) was more of a true relaunch with members of the old cast, but it couldn't hold the numbers it needed. Captain Britain & MI:13 was the last thing close to a relaunch, and it also didn't do well. And before we claim that Nightcrawler could save it, let's not forget that he couldn't hold a solo title for more than 12 issues in more forgiving times. Would they take the chance on yet another Excalibur team now, with the line as bloated as it is? I really don't know. They probably know it'd have a hard time surviving, but that doesn't always mean they're unwilling to take the chance. At this point, though, they might worry that it'd hurt the brand.

As for the line getting trimmed after AvX, I have my doubts. They seem more inclined to expand lines than trim them lately, and they don't always put a different set of chars in each title. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised to see GH get a functional relaunch with a renaming (and maybe the addition of Cable if he survives) to clearly mark it as an important title in the X-line after AvX. (Since they like rezzing titles, they might as well bring it back as "New X-Men" if they can't think of another appropriate title with an X in it.) Unless they're inclined to ditch the results of Schism already, they'll probably stick to having four titles on each side for symmetry's sake. :P
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

They're the ones he knows. He wasn't exactly a social butterfly in AoA, and the two people he seemed to like, Switchback and Damask, don't exist in 616. I'd say he has incentive to seek Mystique out, but she's currently dead. Again.
Why is she in some image previews of upcomig events? I swear I've seen one of her in some kind of spreadsheet of "THINGS TO COME IN THE X-MEN" during Regenesis.
Obviously, they'll play up the drama with Logan. They've already met, and he'll be on Logan's covert execution squad. Sticking him in the middle of the school, though, might be something they'll avoid for now because it'd raise some questions about that squad that Logan wouldn't want to answer.
Well, like I said, "there would've been no point in pulling him out, other than for Logan's sake." That seems pretty silly of them to not bring him into the Mansion by AvX's start. Especially since the BAMFS have been all over Wolverine & The X-Men. I don't think Aaron would put them in there unless he's giving us some kind of easter egg. I think it's safe to say the next title Darkholme is going to appear in after UXF is gonna be W&tXM. I would put money on it.
Sure, they'd want to meet him if they knew he existed. The trouble is that they don't. AvX could easily be used to blow the team's cover, but I don't see Logan or any other member of X-Force doing so intentionally. It kind of defeats their purpose. Keeping Deadpool and Kurt away from the rest of the X-Men keeps the questions of why and when Logan's been working with them off the table.
The plot of which you speak is a new ongoing spin-off title set in the AoA universe, picking up from where things are left there in UXF's upcoming point-one issue. There's currently no indication that the mainstream titles will interact with it beyond UXF #19.1 presenting an event that occurs "five minutes" before Age of Apocalypse #1. It's on its own after that, and UXF heads off to Otherworld.
You mean This Age of Apocalypse?

I thought that's what I was referencing. I may have gotten the dates wrong, and not April/May but instead January/February, but if it's going to be an ongoing, I can't imagine why all of these events tumbling onto eachother wouldn't somehow (in some conceivable way) lead to a reveal of Nightcrawler to the group before the end of spring (1st quarter sales?), and thus by (maybe) 3rd quarter the possible promise of the suggested new Excalibur title.


"Excalibur" is a title for which they haven't seen the sales they've wanted in its last two incarnations. The second name reboot (New Excalibur) was more of a true relaunch with members of the old cast, but it couldn't hold the numbers it needed. Captain Britain & MI:13 was the last thing close to a relaunch, and it also didn't do well. And before we claim that Nightcrawler could save it, let's not forget that he couldn't hold a solo title for more than 12 issues in more forgiving times. Would they take the chance on yet another Excalibur team now, with the line as bloated as it is? I really don't know. They probably know it'd have a hard time surviving, but that doesn't always mean they're unwilling to take the chance. At this point, though, they might worry that it'd hurt the brand.
Keep in mind the Nightcrawler you speak of was, by the point of his own series and the 12-part-mini, considered on his way out (even if we aren't so inclined to admit that). He was not the same Nightcrawler he had once been during his time in Excalibur or Uncanny.

It might have a hard time surviving, but like I said (multiple times), they probably won't replicate the entire cast or event he entire title. It might even form into some sort of "nod-to-fans" title while existing its own right (as in, not called "EXCALIBUR" but composed on a similar premise/similar team members).

The point I still stand by is a lot of these characters have not been in the right place at the right time to get back together again, in a long, long while, and I think Marvel would be clearly suffering an oversight if they missed out an opportunity to do so.


I see AvX reforming a lot of the titles and probably uniting the team again. I don't buy for a second this "Split" is going to last through 2012. And I'm firmly of the belief that by the end of spring, at least Wolverine & The X-Men's most trusted team members will know about Kurt, if not the entire X-Force thing.
And I think that will all be linked to the AoA2012, AvX, and everything else that has been mentioned.

In short, there's a lot going on, so why is it so hard to believe Excalibur won't happen either?

[Edited on 20/12/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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Post by Svartfreja »

Personally, I've been holding out hope for a new Excalibur series since way back at the end of the Siege event when Cap asked Brian if he'd keep his team on standby for the Avengers.

Also... MEGGIE!!! She's all back from the dead and stuff. I was really hoping to see her do some awesome stuff now but there hasn't been anything. Why bring her back at all if there's no eventual plan for that?
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Tom Brevoort informs me that Magik is moving from "Uncanny" to "New Mutants".

Interesting transition, I wonder where that's going too... :shifty
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Post by Svartfreja »

Magik came back INTO the New Mutants. She got pulled off the team after she nearly got them all killed and was completely unapologetic about it because they figured that was a problem. She's been locked up ever since.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Oh...

hey...


Look what I just found for a cover of Uncanny X-Force #23


:smirk
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Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

Post by Wahnsinn »

Ult_Sm86 wrote:Why is she in some image previews of upcomig events? I swear I've seen one of her in some kind of spreadsheet of "THINGS TO COME IN THE X-MEN" during Regenesis.
I haven't seen her in any previews for Regenesis. She got killed in Wolverine several months ago. Her body was auctioned off and bought by some ninjas who may or may not be associated with the Hand.

Is it possible the red-haired blue mutant female you're thinking of from the previews is Transonic, one of Hope's Lights?
Well, like I said, "there would've been no point in pulling him out, other than for Logan's sake." That seems pretty silly of them to not bring him into the Mansion by AvX's start. Especially since the BAMFS have been all over Wolverine & The X-Men. I don't think Aaron would put them in there unless he's giving us some kind of easter egg. I think it's safe to say the next title Darkholme is going to appear in after UXF is gonna be W&tXM. I would put money on it.
They like doing drama for Logan's sake. He's a cash cow. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kurt turn up in Wolverine, but I don't see them having him intentionally reveal himself to the school before X-Force has their cover blown. Could that be in AvX? Sure, but it doesn't have to be.

You mean This Age of Apocalypse?

I thought that's what I was referencing. I may have gotten the dates wrong, and not April/May but instead January/February, but if it's going to be an ongoing, I can't imagine why all of these events tumbling onto eachother wouldn't somehow (in some conceivable way) lead to a reveal of Nightcrawler to the group before the end of spring (1st quarter sales?), and thus by (maybe) 3rd quarter the possible promise of the suggested new Excalibur title.
Yep, that's the title. It's a standalone spin-off with everything happening in the AoA universe. It's not an event nor is it a crossover. They're capitalizing on the popularity of AoA and UXF. It's as simple as that.
Keep in mind the Nightcrawler you speak of was, by the point of his own series and the 12-part-mini, considered on his way out (even if we aren't so inclined to admit that). He was not the same Nightcrawler he had once been during his time in Excalibur or Uncanny.
He was very much the character he had been for years in that retroactive maxi-series. It was meant to be an ongoing, but it failed and got cancelled just like Rogue's ongoing. He was that character when he died years later. He may not have been the Nightcrawler of the '80s, and neither is AoA Kurt, but he was still the Nightcrawler that would have been in any Excalibur revival before his death. He couldn't carry an ongoing. :(
It might have a hard time surviving, but like I said (multiple times), they probably won't replicate the entire cast or event he entire title. It might even form into some sort of "nod-to-fans" title while existing its own right (as in, not called "EXCALIBUR" but composed on a similar premise/similar team members).

The point I still stand by is a lot of these characters have not been in the right place at the right time to get back together again, in a long, long while, and I think Marvel would be clearly suffering an oversight if they missed out an opportunity to do so.
Like the last Excalibur title that failed, you mean? And the Captain Britain title with part of the old cast? It's been done. This is not new territory for them.
I see AvX reforming a lot of the titles and probably uniting the team again. I don't buy for a second this "Split" is going to last through 2012. And I'm firmly of the belief that by the end of spring, at least Wolverine & The X-Men's most trusted team members will know about Kurt, if not the entire X-Force thing.
And I think that will all be linked to the AoA2012, AvX, and everything else that has been mentioned.

In short, there's a lot going on, so why is it so hard to believe Excalibur won't happen either?
As you know, I rather doubt there'll be much of a reformation. They just started the split. I suspect they'll stick to it until UXM would have reached a big round number. That's the current pattern, as most recently demonstrated with the FF.

History and economics. That's why it's hard for me to believe. They've been down that road and failed more than once. Especially with eight ongoing team X-titles on the shelves, there's not enough of an audience to support yet another satellite book. It's a wonder those on the bottom are still surviving at this point.

I think it's more likely that they'd drag some old chars into currently exiting books rather than start up a new Excalibur title to watch it crash, burn, and hurt the name further. Besides, Captain Britain will have plenty to do as a Secret Avenger. (Now, that could blow X-Force's cover in a very unpleasant way if he can't keep his mouth shut.) They have an agenda right now, and I simply don't see it pointing the same direction you do.
Look what I just found for a cover of Uncanny X-Force #23
Yeah, I told you there's an Otherworld arc coming up. I keep up on all this stuff because we have to have our comics order to the shop in time for them to complete their Diamond order. :smirk
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Marvel leading up to a NEW Excalibur? (Anything's possible!)

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

You are such a negative Nancy. :toothy
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Post by Slarti »

Oh, I dunno, Marvel has a track record of reviving titles. Take The Defenders, for example. It's my husband's favorite book and even though it's got some individually popular characters in it, it's never been one of their top sellers, yet it keeps coming back.

I'd buy an Excalibur reboot, at least for a few issues, AoA Kurt or 616 Kurt.
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Post by Elwing »

Yeah, I would probably buy it...At least for a while. Maybe a slightly darker version of the humourous Excalibur of old, and I could totally see Deadpool fit into that.
But then again, they are probably just messing with the old timer's heads a bit.:(
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Maybe a slightly darker version of the humourous Excalibur of old, and I could totally see Deadpool fit into that.
Completely agree, even if it's just an alternate, (which I hope it becomes more), or even if it's just a one-time thing, they're clearly making a strong excalibur reference here not just for the fans sake, but IMO -- testing waters.
Oh, I dunno, Marvel has a track record of reviving titles.
Scarlet Spider is making a return as is Winter Soldier, Black Panther, and Moon Knight. All of whom have had on-again-off-again titles.

[Edited on 21/12/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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Post by Wahnsinn »

Ult_Sm86 wrote:You are such a negative Nancy. :toothy
Am not! I'm a realist. ;)

I'd love to see a return of Excalibur. I just don't see it happening right now. You see hints; I see nostalgic writers. (Also, I see Remender likes to tie his titles together. The Otherworld arc in UXF is related to Captain Britain joining the cast of Secret Avengers.) I'd like to see them try reviving the title when the line isn't so bloated, at a time they're ready to give it some real support. It wouldn't make sense for them to do it when it doesn't fit into their agenda, and I don't think it does. (It also wouldn't make sense if nobody's made a decent pitch for it, but we have no way of knowing if any pitches have been made.) Will they do it eventually? Probably, 'cause that's what they do. I read all the ongoing X-titles except New Mutants, though, and I simply don't see what you see. :shrug

Erm, Winter Soldier can't return when he hasn't left; he's just getting his own book now that Steve is Captain America again. The cancellation of the current Black Panther title has been announced, and he really hadn't gone away between the last cancellation and the move to Daredevil's numbering. Moon Night has been subject to the rapid-relaunch and mini-series strategy, much like Ghost Rider. They've all returned about as much as UXM just ended. Scarlet Spider and the Defenders, however, are true returns. They haven't been around for years.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »


Erm, Winter Soldier can't return when he hasn't left; he's just getting his own book now that Steve is Captain America again. The cancellation of the current Black Panther title has been announced, and he really hadn't gone away between the last cancellation and the move to Daredevil's numbering. Moon Night has been subject to the rapid-relaunch and mini-series strategy, much like Ghost Rider. They've all returned about as much as UXM just ended. Scarlet Spider and the Defenders, however, are true returns. They haven't been around for years.
I'm saying the titles are coming back, not necessarily the characters.

I hate to break it to you sir, but I read the comics as well, I know who Captain America is, was, and the events that changed it (both times).


And yes, before you mention it, I'm aware they're not the only two who have been Captain America, I'm just citing the most recent title changes.



And I wouldn't say realist, you're looking at everything too pragmatically. Nostalgia is what gets titles revived, or more importantly, resculpted. If there's one thing Marvel likes to do, it's take a classic, possibly forgotten treasure, polish it up, and re-present it. Sometimes with a little deceit and they make bank on something "new", sometimes they know the target audience.

I'm saying Excalibur is likely to return because all the pieces are in place in terms of characters, writers with the right amount of nostalgia, and believe it or not I think they're dropping these cookie-crumble-hints because they sincerely believe the target audience is still with them.
After the (I would hope expected) backlash they got with killing Kurt Wagner, this would be the least they could do to try to sedate fans who are still with them and try to absorb new ones with the introduction of an edgier Nightcrawler into the Marvel canon.
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Post by Wahnsinn »

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I'm saying the titles are coming back, not necessarily the characters.
Actually, by your wording, you did seem to be referring to the characters rather than the titles. I'll run with the clarification, though.

Can we really say they're coming back when they haven't been gone for more than a few months, if that? If we can, we must accept that UXM just recently came back. It "ended" for all of a month before the new #1 was out. Black Panther didn't even lose a month between the last mini and taking over Daredevil's numbering. (And, again, that's been cancelled. It's gone with #529, after 17 issues with BP as the star.) Moon Knight wins with a six-month hiatus from mini to the current ongoing. Winter Soldier has never been an ongoing title, so that title can't be coming back.

I hate to break it to you sir, but I read the comics as well, I know who Captain America is, was, and the events that changed it (both times).
I made no assumption that you don't read the comics. I merely stated that, based on the X-titles I read, I've come to a different conclusion on the Excalibur matter. And why does everyone forget that I'm female? :P
And I wouldn't say realist, you're looking at everything too pragmatically. Nostalgia is what gets titles revived, or more importantly, resculpted. If there's one thing Marvel likes to do, it's take a classic, possibly forgotten treasure, polish it up, and re-present it. Sometimes with a little deceit and they make bank on something "new", sometimes they know the target audience.
Do you really think a business wouldn't be looking at things pragmatically? Let's be real here: they're out to make a profit. They release what they think will work for them. If they aren't presented with a compelling case for relaunching a title, they aren't going to do it. Nostalgia alone isn't enough.
I'm saying Excalibur is likely to return because all the pieces are in place in terms of characters, writers with the right amount of nostalgia, and believe it or not I think they're dropping these cookie-crumble-hints because they sincerely believe the target audience is still with them.
After the (I would hope expected) backlash they got with killing Kurt Wagner, this would be the least they could do to try to sedate fans who are still with them and try to absorb new ones with the introduction of an edgier Nightcrawler into the Marvel canon.
As I've said before, I'm simply not seeing the hints you're seeing. I'm seeing writers who like to reference old stuff--Krakatoa, Emplate, the Outback years, AoA, etc. Such references don't mean any given title is in the works.

The target audience is easy, though. Most of it is already in place and buying, at least, one X-title. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking they're not watching sales. The titles that aren't selling as well are exactly the type of title every Excalibur incarnation has been. The line is stretched very thin right now, and they have a sort of symmetry with the current titles. I doubt they're ready to give that up just yet, especially with it being so new. They usually seem to keep an event-generated setup for, at least, a year before reverting or moving to the next one.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Okay, for the sake of not being misinterpreted as a grumbly fan, let me first apologize for the use of "sir", though I will argue that Kevin Smith uses "Sir" as frequently as possible to both genders. :3

Also I want to apologize if my choice of words comes out as compulsive, abrasive, rhetoric.

I agree, I'm seeing things you are perhaps not, or you're seeing things I'm not. I'll also chalk up that sales are incredibly important, super relevant, and the basically decide everything.

But sales for Nightcrawler-related titles are going to go up. Give me the Blue-Ring now, 'cause I'm so hopeful of that happening, I'm almost willing to put money on it.

As more talk of and hype grow after the release of that issue 23 of UXF, I think you will see other boards babbling/rumbling about how great a return of Excalibur would be.

ANd don't think the Marvel writers/board members don't read forums either. I've actually shown Tom Brevoort this very site before, so I know for a fact he (and Skottie Young) are aware of it. They pay attention to that and to written letters and lord knows none of us are willing to stop doing those (if we already write them).

I think what I'm getting at is, with Black Panther returning to his more RIGHTFUL place, and an actual Black Panther title that is not meant to be a filler while Daredevil is gone, (which is what I was getting at, sorry for the confusion), with Defenders & Moon Knight making title returns and yes, the character Winter Soldier returning (and I apologize, I thought there was a Winter Soldier mini not just a CapAm story arc) I think -- as you mentioned-- Between Krakoa (Is it Karkatoa or Krakoa?), Emplate, AoA, Scarlet Spider, Carnage, and many other call backs to the good 'ole days, it seems hard to believe they're not at least testing the waters with that cover art for UXF23, with the alternate universe storyline, and with CapBrit returning to Secret Avengers.

Also:

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Post by Wahnsinn »

No worries. I was mostly having a bit of fun with you on the gender thing. ;)

Don't worry about coming across as abrasive and whatnot, especially since you haven't been lobbing insults. I tend to come across colder in typing than I really am, so I try to remember that plenty others surely have similar problems. It's not a technique I've perfected, so I'm sure I still misinterpret the "tone" of some posts and respond accordingly. 'Tis a pitfall of the interwebs.

I know some of the creators and editors read comic forums. A few even have forums of their own. The prevailing message I've seen, though, is that they regard we forum-dwellers as a very vocal minority. They're only really interested in considering our opinions if the sales seem to agree. If there's lots of kvetching on the forums about a title that's consistently a best-seller, they're going to ignore us and pay attention to the sales. It wasn't letters and forum posts that saved Spider-Girl: it was an increase in sales.

There's one problem with an increase in Nightcrawler-related sales: how do they know that's what's driving the increase if he's only appearing in one title? If the issue/arc has a new or high-profile artist, they could attribute it to that. If it has a special story location, they could attribute it to that. Any number of things could be interpreted as the driving factor: guest star(s), promise of a different cast member being the focus, positive reviews of previous issues, good word of mouth--I think you get the idea. Unless Kurt's the only common link between a bump in sales in multiple titles, they really have no reason to assume that he was the cause without an influx of feedback from buyers that's large enough to be seen as representative of the whole audience.

Is there another BP title to begin after BP:TMDMA ends? He's not one of my favorite characters, so I haven't exactly been watching for announcements about a new ongoing.

It's Krakoa. I was a little sleepy when I wrote that last post and got the name mixed up with the real-world volcano. Sorry 'bout that.

As for the apparent resurfacing of '90s material, I'm not sure what all that is. They did have their greatest sales success in those years, along with the crash. Perhaps they're trying to draw that audience back in? There's also the possibility that some of the copyrights or trademarks are about to run out on properties that haven't been touched since then. I seem to recall reading somewhere that they lose some things if they don't use them in 25 years, which means that now's the time to bring back unused stuff from the '90s.

Another possibility is some weird creative cycle that's simply drawing creators and editors back to that material. It could be what some of them know best or remember most fondly from their days as readers, so they have enough passion for the material that they're able to construct pitches liked by the senior editors. The X-titles have also seen a return of Morrison's content from the early '00s: The World, Fantomex, Quentin Quire, etc. Honestly, I sometimes wonder if HoM/Decimation had a detrimental effect on the creative possibilities for the X-titles because it seems they've been dusting off old material ever since. Of course, one could argue that the Avengers line has been going in circles for a while as well. Maybe the House is suffering from a shortage of Ideas? :shrug
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