What If Marvel Did a New 52?

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Ult_Sm86
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What If Marvel Did a New 52?

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:59 am

So this was asked to me on Formspring and I was surprised at how lengthy my response was.

I actually thought about this, long and hard, and came up with the following response:


If they did it would be called Ultimate Comics.

If they did it again, and scrapped their canon (IMO: bad move btw) they'd of course choose the 'BIG 10' and their associated books.

(note: this is how I see the books being titled as well as the titles I think they would go out of their way to reboot).

-Uncanny X-Men
-Amazing Spider-Man
-Invincible Iron Man
-Daredevil: Man Without Fear
-Mighty Thor
-Incredible Hulk
-The Deadly Punisher
-Fantastic Four
-Captain America (This would be about present-day Rogers)
-The Black Panther

from there:
-Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme
-Immortal Iron Fist
-Antman & Wasp
-Captain America: First Avenger (the WWII misadventures of Bucky & Steve)
-Ghost Rider
-Spectacular Spider-Woman
-Cloak & Dagger
-The Avengers
-Venom
-Elektra
-Silver Sable & The Wild Pack
-X-Factor
-Moon Knight
-Xcalibur
-Alpha Flight
-X-Men
-Spider-Man: Tangled Web
-New Mutants
-X-Force
-Wolverine
-Punisher MAX
-S.H.I.E.L.D.
-Invincible War Machine
-Strange Tales (a kick-back title but have it be a consistant story where a super-paranormal-team made up of various Marvel characters investigate things for the greater good.)
-Silver Surfer
-Magneto & The Brotherhood
-Wolverine & The X-Men
-Deadpool
-Marvel Knights
-Unstoppable Juggernaut
-Power Man
-Cable
-Ms. Marvel
-Spider-Man 2099
-X-Men 2099


That's all I can think of that would be worth reading.

To be honest though, Marvel IS doing their own reboot if you think about it. So many main characters are either going through major changes or even being re-invented.

Ghost Rider is now a girl.
New Nightcrawler (AoA Kurt Darkholme)
New X-Men Line-Ups (albeit terrible excuse for it though, most of SCHISM seems forced)
New take on life from Daredevil
New hurdles for Spidey (no spider-sense? new villains? New Hobgoblin? new job? new girlfriend? Aunt May safe in Boston no longer clogging up his daily life?)
New Juggernaut (it's Colossus, but still)
-Doom is part of the FF
-Tony is on again off again Iron Man and it looks like Pepper is sticking to "Iron Woman"
-RED HULK, no more Bruce Banner (maybe some internal monologues) just Green Hulk?
-No more S.H.I.E.L.D.
-Still no new sorcerer supreme
-New take on Moon Knight
-New Power Man
-New African-American/Latino Ultimate Spider-Man

Lot of big changes for Marvel, IMO. And they didn't need to restart their universe to do it.


[Edited on 11/9/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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What If Marvel Did a New 52?

Post by Bamfette » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:32 am

Marvel is constantly doing little reboots, it's nothing new. It's just typically restricted to one family or books or a single character at a time. They're sneaky about their reboots. :shifty DC kind of has a history of line wide reboots though. It's just the way they roll. I'm sure the companies will stick to their usual ways of doing things.

One of the cool things about the DC reboot though is the Dark and Edge lines, I would love to see books in a similar vein at Marvel. Expand the variety of books and thereby expand the audience.

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What If Marvel Did a New 52?

Post by Garble » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:21 am

I personally think the whole comic industry might need to rethink its whole approach to continuity.

Instead of waiting for things to get so convoluted and ridiculously complex (and often contradictory) then rebooting to clean up the mess, why not avoid the mess entirely by letting stories stand alone?

For example, take a look at Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns." It doesn't fit anywhere in regular D.C. continuity. It's a unique take and approach to the character that tells a story and doesn't hold itself accountable to anything that's happened before (no explanation for why Robin is now a girl) or what will happen after (no one felt obligated to continue the events from that story). It's still Batman, it's still the true to the main idea of the character. It's just not tied to a long, continuous history, or to limitations of how it will impact future stories.

In some ways a lot of writers do this already, often with sloppy results. When a new writer takes over a team book, he/she usually gets rid of characters he/she doesn't like and brings in ones he/she does. Sometimes with thrown-together explanations, and sometimes without any attempted explanation at all. But since there's the expectation that everything has to be tied to one, continuous story these weak or lacking explanations seem out of place. But why do we need that expectation? Why does Marvel have to be one continuous universe all the time? Why should something that happened in an issue of Thor 20 years ago impact what story elements can or can't be used in an X-Men story now?

If stories could stand alone more, it would be easier for new readers to jump in, it would be easier for new writers to jump in, and they'd be free to take greater risks with the characters and be freed from limitations created by other writers. If someone wants to write a story about Spider-Man getting killed in the first page and exploring how it would impact the people around him, they could. And they wouldn't have to bring him back from the dead in some stupid way just so that other writers can use him later.

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What If Marvel Did a New 52?

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:25 am

Garble, couldn't his "Dark Knight Returns" and "DK2" stories be considered What-If though? Or do you think they stand out as continuity-(but-not) like "Long Halloween" do?

Also -- I think some of what you're saying is a bit what they've been doing lately anyways. At least, that's the impression I've been getting in many of my titles, which is the only reason I still read them. They're not contrite or temporary, they try to make big chances that will stick.
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What If Marvel Did a New 52?

Post by Garble » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:29 pm

After 80+ years of trying to come up new twists and turns for the "same" characters, to me it's all What-If at this point. I think the comic industry should just accept it.

Looking at the model of Television, more shows are going from episodic (every story stands alone) to more serial (more like comics where one story flows into the next) and a side effect that becomes apparent is that audiences get tired of a series faster. They want an end point. Shows that go on a little two long (Lost, and arguably BSG) start to annoy people when it seems like nothings going to get resolved.

With the current model of comic book continuity, the story can't have proper resolutions. Because the story supposedly began decades ago and will presumably go on forever.

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What If Marvel Did a New 52?

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:21 pm

After 80+ years of trying to come up new twists and turns for the "same" characters, to me it's all What-If at this point. I think the comic industry should just accept it.
Can I get an example of how this works out better than what Marvel is currently doing now? Besides Ultimate Verse?
Looking at the model of Television, more shows are going from episodic (every story stands alone) to more serial (more like comics where one story flows into the next) and a side effect that becomes apparent is that audiences get tired of a series faster. They want an end point. Shows that go on a little two long (Lost, and arguably BSG) start to annoy people when it seems like nothings going to get resolved.
I would agree, but I think creative writers are finding ways to keep things going.
Some stuff (Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, etc...) obviously have an end result the writers are seeking out.
Some other shows, the ones most-popular with comic-culture? Seem to be the opposite of that. They're not episodic (the way a Sitcome like How I Met Your Mother or Family Guy is,) but they do have these overlying plots are still having "stand alone" episodes.
Examples are:
The Venture Bros.
Dexter
True Blood
Heroes (now cancelled)

There's not a lot of them, but it's possible to do this.

I think if you sit there and say "How could all of this have happened?" You are definitely going to get that impression Garble.

But since OMD, most of Spider-Man's time-stream has been severely condensed. It's a constant struggle, but ... that's comic books.
A bunch of short-lived what-if tales are not going to work for long. They won't bring in enough revenue. Not if you're doing short term Spider-Man stories and short-term X-Men stories. So Logan fights all his enemies, dies, and then they start over again, this time in a different time period?

Don't they already do that?
Old Man Logan
Origins
Weapon X
Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine Team-Up
Ultimate X-Me

I feel like what you're arguing for they already provide, just not in the mass quantity you expect. And to that I ask, where's the financial gain in that endeavor? How does anyone, DC/Image/whoever, profit from such a business strategy?


Also, anyone else got any ideas for the a possible 52-Reboot for Marvel? What books was I missing? Could it be done?

How would you see these titles achieved?


[Edited on 12/9/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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What If Marvel Did a New 52?

Post by Dedicatedfollower467 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:00 am

For some people (read: me) the fact that it's all one big continuity is actually exciting and enhances the enjoyment of the universe. I love the fact that all these characters exist with histories and backstories; yes, sometimes it creates great big plot snarls, and yes, sometimes that means things never get resolved. But part of the beauty of comics is that you CAN say "Look, this happened to her way back three years ago, and it's still affecting her today!"

When I want to see "What if Spiderman died, how would that affect the universe" I look for What-If and Elseworld stories. I think DC's biggest problem with continuity was getting rid of the many-earths idea. Yes, sometimes it could be confusing, but it opened up chances for EVERYTHING and NOTHING to be canon.

I know I can't be the only person who loves decades of backstory.
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What If Marvel Did a New 52?

Post by The Drastic Spastic » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:54 am

The idea of Marvel attempting a universe-wide reboot makes me shiver. They should wait until they can get the little ones right before they go really crazy.

I was stunned to check out a weeks worth of the New 52 from DC and find that a lot of it was actually really good. You mean reboot doesn't have to mean a lot of big talk about how awesome it's going to be followed by a massive let-down?
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