X-23 Discussion

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X-23 Discussion

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:50 pm

Okay, so not only is the artwork (Will Conrad) amazing in this book, in book one it starts off with Ororo telling X-23 just how amazing Nightcrawler was and how his absence on the team is sorely felt, and will continue to be so.


This is a great book. If you guys arent' reading this, DO IT.

If you are, what are some of your thoughts??

They've really developed her into her own.
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Postby kladyelf » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:04 am

do you have a link to a preview?
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:20 pm

I don't, I don't really do previews, but I'm sure it's up on CBR or Marvel somewhere. Honestly, you don't need one.

I'm assuring you, it's a great issue. If it were a one-shot? It'd be awesome as well. But fortunately, they're going to make a series out of this. Granted, there had better be more action, but it's issue #1, it's sorta setting the scene.
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:35 am

So I unfortunately dropped this title after issue 3 (as is my policy with comics, even if I like the writing/art) because it felt like the story was dwelling too heavily on Logan and not enough on Laura.

It seems that this has changed within the title, and now X-23 is really booming. I'm getting all sorts of suggestions each month that it comes out to pick it up, give it a shot, or grab the trade and finish the arc I had given up on.

So let's see if I can get some more people to convince me.

What do you guys think of X-23? I hear the art is stellar. The writing is also unique and I'm told the special guest characters are crack-tastic.
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Postby Starfish » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:34 am

The title definitely improved a lot from the first issues, which still seemed to lack a clear focus and direction. Also, Logan's presence diminished greatly after the beginning, with Gambit taking on more of a mentor rule towards Laura.
The issues illustrated by Sana Takeda (#7 to #12) simply are works of art. Currently Phil Noto is on art duties, whose art isn't bad, but certainly more hit and miss compared to the outstanding quality we've got before.
All in all a very good comic book, with a lot of very fun guest stars (Spider-Man, FF, Daken, Vampire-Jubes!). :nodyes
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:23 am

I bought the first FF issue with Spidey in it, and I gotta say...

It was really funny. And fun. Just what a comic book should be. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

I'm definitely getting this title in trades.
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:32 pm

Double-posting for greatness!!

X-23 appears to be headed in the exact same steps as Logan once again:

Laura to head towards the Avengers Acaedmy

What an interesting turn of events... Maybe she will find people her age who can/are willing to relate to her.
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Postby tears~fall~like~glass » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:12 am

I have to agree with Star that the book's definitely improved since the first few issues. And, Logan appears again with vamp Jubes, but it's really not that bad. I can stand him in small quantities. The art's been nice. Haven't really had any problems with it.

Have to say my favorite guest star so far has been FF, though Avengers Academy should prove to be interesting.
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Starfish » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:15 am

Heh, oh yeah, X-23 is definitely working hard to challenge Logan's guest-star throne. It's amusing that she'll show up in issue #23 of Avengers Academy.

Also, good news everyone! According to recent solicitations, Sana Takeda will return to provide the art for this book. :bounce
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:26 am

Star, that's not just good news that's fantastic. One thing I loved about the comic was the artwork.

Thankfully not one of the books where the cover is always completely misleading.

Example?

Image Cover (pretty)

Image Inside art, (not pretty, IMO).

LOL!
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Postby No.Na. » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:16 pm

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/11/1 ... g-land-on/


Did anyone else see this? I don't read solicitations so I don't have a verification, but I am pretty sad to hear that her solo is getting cancelled.
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:46 pm

It is, but she will be joining Avengers Academy apparently.

:? what?!
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Postby Wahnsinn » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:20 am

Daken's getting the axe as well. Perhaps they're working on lowering the number of low-selling solo books and moving those characters to other titles, when they can find places for them. I haven't seen any word yet on where Black Panther and Daken may end up, so that idea's very much speculation on my part.

Oddly, X-23 is moving to a title that's currently selling less than her cancelled solo title. Maybe they're hoping her fans who don't already read that title will follow and boost its sales?
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:42 pm

That sounds logical Wahnsinn, but I was told the last two issue of Avengers sold higher than hers, and I was also told by the guy who runs the comic store I got to:

"X-23 was cancelled, not Avengers Academy. Whatever it is AA is doing, they're obviously doing it right. SOmetimes there's more to it than numbers."

Late art, late writing, story lines that stopped being relevant, intersecting with other storylines appropriately, etc...
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Wahnsinn » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:42 am

Here are the released numbers (Disclaimer: The final sales numbers are never released, so Marvel employees know more than we ever will.):
X-23
08/11 #13 - 23,976
09/11 #14 - 23,727
10/11 #15 - 24,043

Avengers Academy
08/11 #18 - 24,538
09/11 #19 - 23,928
10/11 #20 - 23,412

They've been very close over the last several months, and AA's been running a six-issue Fear Itself tie-in that ended with #20. It's hard to say if that's helped or harmed the title, considering the boost it got for its start didn't hold and left the title slightly below pre-FI numbers by the tie-in's last issue. X-23, on the other hand, has only had guest stars over that same period of time. Ignoring the FI numbers, it looks like both titles really sell about the same to hover around 24k.

All that said, I'm not sure X-23 is a great fit for that team. The place for young mutants to train has typically been with the X-men, so it wouldn't surprise me if some readers feel she's being shoehorned in for the young-Wolverine-with-boobs appeal. I hope it works, though, 'cause she's an interesting character. I definitely like her better than Daken, whom I wouldn't mind seeing fall off the grid. :P

I almost forgot: Ghost Rider is also going bye-bye. That will result in no MU women having solo titles. Iron Man 2.0 is also canned. That would leave the new Ultimate Spidey as the only person of color with a solo series, yes? So, we're looking at a predominantly white sausage fest for the solo titles. I'm not sure if that says more about the paying audience or Marvel at this point. *sigh*
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:03 am

That would leave the new Ultimate Spidey as the only person of color with a solo series, yes?


The Monkey King is a new character having been recently introduced and will be entering soon with is own ongoing. Also the street-smart, latino "Power Man" (as seen in the Shadowland Events) is leading the fray in a team-book, (can't recall the name, but I was under the impression he was getting his own title). Wouldn't be surprised if he joins the Avengers Academy too.


It isn't a bad thing to condense the number of titles tough, Wahnsinn, they have too many as is. Should they have more female characters and "people of color", absolutely, but I think eliminating redundant titles, (All the Deadpools, Punishers, Wolverine & Wolvy Kids') makes sense. I don't LIKE that they got rid of X-23, but no one thought Wolverine would fit into regular Avengers either, if you remember correctly.

Also -- The current "Avengers Academy" has a strong "Young Justice" vibe to it. There's a sidekick or mini-kid-version-equivalent of every character or type of character on the team.

Why not have X-23 on there? What's the worst that could happen, her presence makes the book sink? Doubtful. If anything it'll improve it.

[Edited on 26/11/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Wahnsinn » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:30 pm

The only info I can find for Monkey King pertains to the FI one-shot. Are you sure there's to be an ongoing?
Power Man and Iron Fist was a mini. I haven't seen anything about plans for an ongoing after that. Is Iron Fist associated with AA? If so, that could be a logical way to have Power Man end up there.

Oh, I never said it was a bad idea to condense the titles. I'd be quite content if no character had more than one solo title, and I think some of the team lines (X-Men and Avengers in particular) are currently bloated. I don't, however, think it makes sense to just hurl characters into team books when it'll likely seem contrived. I still don't think Wolverine and Spider-Man fit well in the Avengers. :P

I'm worried that X-23 joining AA won't fit where's she's currently at as a character. Her current thread has been about finding herself outside of groups telling her what she should be and do. Can I see her working with a team to help them out on a short-term basis? Yes. Joining a team? Not right now, and I'm really not sure they'll be able to get her to that point naturally from where she is right now. If she must end up in an ensemble book, I think WatXM would've made more sense.

As far as where to put others, I suppose they could make Black Panther a recurring character in Daredevil if he doesn't go back to Wakanda. Since Moon Knight is in the same city, Daken could become a recurring thorn in his side. I have no ideas for Ghost Rider.

All that said, I really wish they'd revamp their strategy. I'd like to see what would happen if they set some limits on the number of titles any given character or team line has. Perhaps one solo (if any) per character and three per team line (with each having a unique roster)? If a person can't go broke buying the X-line alone, maybe s/he would feel comfortable taking a chance on worth containing the sprawl on events (or maybe run them less often?) to stop every title from feeling like all it's ever doing is covering consequences or setup. Maybe titles like New Mutants being interrupted by events so often--almost half of its issues have been event tie-ins!--has driven off some potential buyers. I know their goal is to make money, but I think they're focusing too much on short-term gains and might be setting themselves up for a long-term loss.
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:54 pm

The only info I can find for Monkey King pertains to the FI one-shot. Are you sure there's to be an ongoing?
Power Man and Iron Fist was a mini. I haven't seen anything about plans for an ongoing after that. Is Iron Fist associated with AA? If so, that could be a logical way to have Power Man end up there.


Plans may have changed but Tom was saying on Formspring it was going to be an ongoing....

As for Power Man/Iron Fist, they should both be in Avengers (Secret or New?) coming up along with/beside Murdock returning as Daredevil.

Iron Fist is too old for AA.

I know their goal is to make money, but I think they're focusing too much on short-term gains and might be setting themselves up for a long-term loss.


They need to improve their online sales/digital downloads.



All that said, I think Marvel is doing a better job than DC at handeling their characters right now. They're just having a tough time making female title numbers stick. They're obviously treating the title well, they gave X-23 a great writer and an incredibly talented artist. It was unfair what happened to thet itle, but it's not necessarily Marvel's fault. They could take a page out of DC's campaign book and put ads on TV or other geek-read magazines, but long story short, the readers just didn't like the title. Marvel can't make them buy it.
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X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Wahnsinn » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:48 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:Plans may have changed but Tom was saying on Formspring it was going to be an ongoing....

As for Power Man/Iron Fist, they should both be in Avengers (Secret or New?) coming up along with/beside Murdock returning as Daredevil.

Iron Fist is too old for AA.

An Avengers title could work with those two. I haven't really been watching for news about Avenger cast reshuffling.

Iron Fist isn't too old to be a teacher/leader/whatever-the-role-of-adults-is in AA. ;)

They need to improve their online sales/digital downloads.

Those sales won't matter if people aren't interested in buying what they're selling.

All that said, I think Marvel is doing a better job than DC at handeling their characters right now. They're just having a tough time making female title numbers stick. They're obviously treating the title well, they gave X-23 a great writer and an incredibly talented artist. It was unfair what happened to thet itle, but it's not necessarily Marvel's fault. They could take a page out of DC's campaign book and put ads on TV or other geek-read magazines, but long story short, the readers just didn't like the title. Marvel can't make them buy it.

Both publishers have always had trouble selling solo female titles. It's nothing new, unfortunately. It's something they've never mastered.

X-23 sells better than Thunderbolts and X-Factor, neither of which are being cancelled. Her title isn't selling fantastically, but neither is the title into which she's being moved. I can't imagine that starting off with an FI tie-in did Ghost Rider any favors. I also think they need to quit it with the female versions of established male characters and, instead, focus on expanding the audience of the established female characters since they don't seem to have a good handle on how to market new characters.

They have a problem consistently selling anything but Avengers, Spider-Man, some core X-titles, and one Wolverine solo book. Even that last one isn't selling as well as it did before they went about renaming then twice relaunching it. Incredible Hulk #1 sold like crazy, but I don't think inconsistent art--three people on pencils for #2?!--will do it any good; I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually ends up close to its predecessor, as that seems to be the pattern with these things. FF is almost back to where Fantastic Four was, and they'll have two titles in that line when the latter returns with #600. (The market barely supports one, so they're adding another? So, which titles will FF fans drop to buy it?) Daredevil is already back to pre-relaunch numbers. The current Black Panther title took over the Daredevil numbering and lost half the audience, putting it right back where the last BP ongoing was, before getting canned. Herc's book simply tanked. The event tie-ins aren't granting the significant temporary bumps they once did, and some titles are coming out of them with decreased sales.

As for marketing, they preach to the choir far too much. Do they really think people who aren't already buying comics are frequenting sites like Newsarama? They need to start advertizing outside of the bubble, like DC did with the commercials. That was the smartest thing either company has done in years.
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Re: X-23 by Marjoire Liu

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:21 pm

Did anyone read the last issue?

is it any good?


Who keeps up with X-23's stuff? I hear her and Venom and Red Hulk are fighting alongside Ghost Rider (Ms. Ghost Rider to you, now!) against some deadly evil forces? And she's in Young Allies (Or is it Young Avengers again?).

Anyways the previously mentioned 4-way battle is a six parter called Circle of Four.
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Re: X-23 Discussion

Postby Starfish » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:35 pm

The last (and final) issue of her solo series was quite good, in my opinion, but I would recommend it only to dedicated fans of the characters. The whole book is silent, without a single line of dialogue and carried only by Phil Noto's excellent art. I'd say it's a strong issue and brings Laura's development and her solo adventures to a satisfying conclusion. Beware that not very much happens in the way of plot, however, so you might want to skip it, unless you're interested in the bold way Liu and Noto tell this story.

The Circle of Four mini-series is already wrapped up, and was actually a pretty exciting read, with plenty of character development for everyone involved and some fun fight scenes.

Right now she's found her place in Avengers Academy, where reportedly she'll play a big role during the upcoming AvX event.
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Re: X-23 Discussion

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:35 pm

So...

Where's Laura on the line of Avengers VS X-Men? I don't really keep up with the sidebooks.
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Re: X-23 Discussion

Postby tears~fall~like~glass » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:45 pm

I believe she's with the Avengers. Wikipedia isn't exactly the most reliable source, but they have this in the Avengers Academy section of the AvX page.

After the fake battle, Surge and Dust invite X-23 to join them, but she declines.
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Re: X-23 Discussion

Postby Wahnsinn » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:26 am

She stayed at the academy, but she doesn't seem to agree fully with either side at this point. It's just the place she wants to be right now in her journey of self-discovery.
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