Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Here's the problem: Mutants aren't a savable endangered species. They're going to die off, period. It doesn't matter if their enemies kill them faster; they're going extinct until a deus ex machina changes the rules to allow for the passing of the X-gene.
That doesn't create fear. That creates despair and/or apathy. They're going to die, so why should we care? Why should the baseline humans care? They should be relieved, and only extreme bigots would be interested in quickly annihilating what remains of the mutant population.
The creators have written themselves into a corner. The problem wasn't that there were too many mutants. It was that the mutants were concentrated in a few areas, including Genosha and the Xavier Institute, instead of being spread more evenly over the globe.
That doesn't create fear. That creates despair and/or apathy. They're going to die, so why should we care? Why should the baseline humans care? They should be relieved, and only extreme bigots would be interested in quickly annihilating what remains of the mutant population.
The creators have written themselves into a corner. The problem wasn't that there were too many mutants. It was that the mutants were concentrated in a few areas, including Genosha and the Xavier Institute, instead of being spread more evenly over the globe.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Uhm... isn't that the point of Hope?
I'm sure they have planned for this.
I'm sure they have planned for this.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Pfffft. There it goes comparing comics to reality again. Since Decimation was caused by a reality-bending mutant who "magically" changed the universe, in and of itself a deus ex machina, the field is wide open for ways to "fix" it.
Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
I've noticed that Techno based Villians seem to be stronger than normal Mutants, so why don't the X-Men get some help from some non-mutants that have experience in Techno suits, and help beat up the bad guys?
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Blob, have you been reading Second Coming?
The Avengers have been smashing away at the Giant Sphere.
No good. The bad guys have the upper hand.
The Avengers have been smashing away at the Giant Sphere.
No good. The bad guys have the upper hand.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
And I repeat: "They're going extinct until a deus ex machina changes the rules to allow for the passing of the X-gene."
While a tool of the medium, I'm of the opinion that the DEM should be used sparingly. There's no drama to be had when the audience knows any major problem will be fixed by some implausible happening. They could have significantly lowered the mutant population and nixed the human-extinction gene without writing themselves into a corner that requires a DEM to exit.
While a tool of the medium, I'm of the opinion that the DEM should be used sparingly. There's no drama to be had when the audience knows any major problem will be fixed by some implausible happening. They could have significantly lowered the mutant population and nixed the human-extinction gene without writing themselves into a corner that requires a DEM to exit.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
You repeat yourself but I think it's actually me who you're not understanding.... not the other way around.And I repeat: "They're going extinct until a deus ex machina changes the rules to allow for the passing of the X-gene."
I'll repeat myself too, incase:
Hope + Second Coming Event/Decimation aftermath = DEUS ex machina.Uhm... isn't that the point of Hope?
I'm sure they have planned for this.
Dude, DEM's aren't BAD they're just annoying if they're insulting to the reader (in that there's a better way out [See "Clone Saga"]) or they are constructed frequently in a story.
A DEM for a post-mutant race wipe out? Not been done yet. I'm looking forward to seeing how they resolve this, and I'll be disappointed if it's anything short of "wow. That's surprising. I didn't see them going there with that."
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
What I meant to say was; They should get Beak and the New Warriors to help.Ult_Sm86 wrote:Blob, have you been reading Second Coming?
The Avengers have been smashing away at the Giant Sphere.
No good. The bad guys have the upper hand.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Which goes beack to whether or not you've been reading the series. All communication with people outside of the sphere has been completely cut off. They can't contact outside help and they can't teleport out either because all the teleporters are dead (or in limbo but lets not split hairs).Blob55 wrote: What I meant to say was; They should get Beak and the New Warriors to help.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what marvel pulls out of their magic hat to fix this one.
Incidentally there is another Wanda-style character out there that people will know about if they keep up with Ms Marvel. Called the Storyteller - they tried to remake Wanda (by 'they' I mean AIM) so there's another thing lurking in there somewhere. It's fun!
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Quicksilver: Howisshe?Isshealright?Imusetspeakwithmysisteratonce.
Hawkeye: What is that noise?
IronMan: That is the noise Pietro makes right before he's tossed out of the airlock. ~ Avengers: The Children's Crusade #6
Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
I know how we can retcon the Decimation event:
1) Get Jaime Madrox
2) put him in a large vat of custard
3) adorn said custardy mutant with the cosmic cube and the ring made from a bit of the CC
4) add Cyclops
5) one *Fzark!* later and you have a multiple-cosmic-mcguffin generator powered by CUSTARD! Mu-Hahahahahaaaaaa!!! *thunder crackles*
*wheeze*
(ruddy asthma)
1) Get Jaime Madrox
2) put him in a large vat of custard
3) adorn said custardy mutant with the cosmic cube and the ring made from a bit of the CC
4) add Cyclops
5) one *Fzark!* later and you have a multiple-cosmic-mcguffin generator powered by CUSTARD! Mu-Hahahahahaaaaaa!!! *thunder crackles*
*wheeze*
(ruddy asthma)
meddle not in the affairs of ficcers for you are malleable and easily .... O_o *stares* ooh is that a cookie?
Love your enemies - It will drive them nuts!
Crazy.... but in the nicest possible way....
To Stupidityyyyy - and beyond!
*after reading the latest gory/depressing "mainstream" comic* ....*sigh* that's it, I'm packin' up and moving back to the Eighties...
Love your enemies - It will drive them nuts!
Crazy.... but in the nicest possible way....
To Stupidityyyyy - and beyond!
*after reading the latest gory/depressing "mainstream" comic* ....*sigh* that's it, I'm packin' up and moving back to the Eighties...
Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
I mentioned Hope in my first post.Ult_Sm86 wrote:Hope + Second Coming Event/Decimation aftermath = DEUS ex machina.
Dude, DEM's aren't BAD they're just annoying if they're insulting to the reader (in that there's a better way out [See "Clone Saga"]) or they are constructed frequently in a story.
A DEM for a post-mutant race wipe out? Not been done yet. I'm looking forward to seeing how they resolve this, and I'll be disappointed if it's anything short of "wow. That's surprising. I didn't see them going there with that."
What I'm trying to get across is that the need for the DEM in this storyline was made glaringly obvious from the beginning. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that as a good idea from a storytelling perspective. And how is that not an insult to the readers? It doesn't take any creativity to come up with a DEM. They only need to decide how long they plan to drag out the situation.
I think there would have been far more dramatic tension if mutants had been dropped to an extremely vulnerable number while making changing the odds of mutant births among different pairings to something like the following:
- Baseline-Baseline = 0%
- Mutant-Baseline = 4%
- Mutant-Mutant = 10%
Can I have some of whatever you're on?kladyelf wrote:I know how we can retcon the Decimation event:
1) Get Jaime Madrox
2) put him in a large vat of custard
3) adorn said custardy mutant with the cosmic cube and the ring made from a bit of the CC
4) add Cyclops
5) one *Fzark!* later and you have a multiple-cosmic-mcguffin generator powered by CUSTARD! Mu-Hahahahahaaaaaa!!! *thunder crackles*
*wheeze*
(ruddy asthma)
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Takin' this shit way too literally man.What I'm trying to get across is that the need for the DEM in this storyline was made glaringly obvious from the beginning. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that as a good idea from a storytelling perspective. And how is that not an insult to the readers? It doesn't take any creativity to come up with a DEM. They only need to decide how long they plan to drag out the situation.
I think there would have been far more dramatic tension if mutants had been dropped to an extremely vulnerable number while making changing the odds of mutant births among different pairings to something like the following:
Baseline-Baseline = 0%
Mutant-Baseline = 4%
Mutant-Mutant = 10%
Combine that with their enemies trying to kill off what remains of the mutants to ensure their extinction, and you've got a race of people with a chance at a natural comeback who'll have to fight like hell to stay alive long enough to make it.
It's a comic book. Maybe they're purposely throwing you off? Maybe they want you to think Hope is the DEM? But she's not, and she's just a catalyst for something even bigger??
Also; Jamie's de-powered as well--I believe?
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
In comic books you're supposed to take things seriously, especially if it's characters that you've grown up with, and have lasted decades; only to be almost extinct in a few years short years.
The number of mutants has been increasing before the decimation, but now it's shinking down to an even lower and lower number.
The number of mutants has been increasing before the decimation, but now it's shinking down to an even lower and lower number.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Hence the rising suspense/action.The number of mutants has been increasing before the decimation, but now it's shinking down to an even lower and lower number.
You're supposed to feel overwhelmed, you're supposed to feel exasperated, and you're supposed to feel like all hope's lost.
Well...
not all Hope.
[Edited on 30/6/10 by Ult_Sm86]
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Even if Hope isn't the DEM, she's a McGuffin being used to signify the coming of the inevitable DEM needed to fix that impossible situation. They wrote themselves into a corner from the very beginning by ruling out a natural comeback fraught with peril but allowing for a glimmer of hope. A DEM is boring when seen coming from a mile away.Ult_Sm86 wrote:Takin' this shit way too literally man.
It's a comic book. Maybe they're purposely throwing you off? Maybe they want you to think Hope is the DEM? But she's not, and she's just a catalyst for something even bigger??
Also; Jamie's de-powered as well--I believe?
Madrox still has his powers.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Multiple Man still has his powers post-Decimation. Remember the baby he had with Syrin that just turned out to be an infant dupe he quickly reabsorbed? No? Can't blame you. How about, much better yet, when he sent two dupes into the future? Kind of needed his powers for that....
As for all the teleporters being dead or whatnot, again, where was Lila Cheney?
As for all the teleporters being dead or whatnot, again, where was Lila Cheney?
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
How the heck should I know? Ask Cyke - he seems to think they're trapped because of a lack of teleporters. I'm going by what's been said in the series already. I've got every issue that the Second Coming plot is involved with.Angelique wrote:As for all the teleporters being dead or whatnot, again, where was Lila Cheney?
But correct me if I'm wrong, aren't we kind of off the point here?
The Decimation happened. It's not likely to unhappen. I'm sure Marvel have a plan to 'fix' it. Just let them get on with it.
EDIT: Because her power, once activated, will already have carried her hundreds of thousands of miles away before she can even complete the thought of "stop", Lila can't teleport across shorter distances. <- Taken from the marvel bio for her. Not that great for teleporting around Earth... it's not that big.
[Edited on 1/7/10 by Svartfreja]
Pietro Maximoff [Quicksilver]
Quicksilver: Howisshe?Isshealright?Imusetspeakwithmysisteratonce.
Hawkeye: What is that noise?
IronMan: That is the noise Pietro makes right before he's tossed out of the airlock. ~ Avengers: The Children's Crusade #6
Quicksilver: Howisshe?Isshealright?Imusetspeakwithmysisteratonce.
Hawkeye: What is that noise?
IronMan: That is the noise Pietro makes right before he's tossed out of the airlock. ~ Avengers: The Children's Crusade #6
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Sorry, I've only been reading X-Men Regularly again since right before "Second Coming" event. And Multiple Man has never been one of my favorites....Multiple Man still has his powers post-Decimation. Remember the baby he had with Syrin that just turned out to be an infant dupe he quickly reabsorbed? No? Can't blame you. How about, much better yet, when he sent two dupes into the future? Kind of needed his powers for that....
As for all the teleporters being dead or whatnot, again, where was Lila Cheney?
Or even worth following to me. I think the coolest versions of him I've seen are the movie version and the in-game version.
As Freja said, they didn't write themselves into a corner, I'm sure they have it figured out. Planned out. Constructed.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
The only plan with HoM and Decimation was "putting the genie back in the bottle" for Joe Q. He thought there were too many mutants, so whittling down the population to an unsustainable number that would die out in a generation if the remaining long-lived mutants got killed was the solution. It was a rather inane solution, if you ask me.
It functionally rendered Xavier's Dream of coexistence moot because the baseline humans no longer needed to worry about the long-term existence of mutants. Fear? Feh. Just wait for them to die. Hate? Yippee. They can be annihilated more easily.
It left the readers awaiting the inevitable deus ex machina because we know Marvel wouldn't dare let the X-line die. Since the full effects of Wanda's decree were made clear, it was obvious that a DEM would come eventually. It was all a matter of what/who and when.
Color me unimpressed with that kind of storytelling.
It functionally rendered Xavier's Dream of coexistence moot because the baseline humans no longer needed to worry about the long-term existence of mutants. Fear? Feh. Just wait for them to die. Hate? Yippee. They can be annihilated more easily.
It left the readers awaiting the inevitable deus ex machina because we know Marvel wouldn't dare let the X-line die. Since the full effects of Wanda's decree were made clear, it was obvious that a DEM would come eventually. It was all a matter of what/who and when.
Color me unimpressed with that kind of storytelling.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
I'm not impressed per say, but I'm intrigued at the twists and turns it has taken. And I really want to see what rabbit they pull out of their hats, being they'd be stupid to do something predictable. Which,... ou seem bent on assuming they are going to.
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
I'm on a diet, you don't want thatWahnsinn : Can I have some of whatever you're on?
mind you, to achieve a case of affable lunacy eat a packet of something sugary, watch Monty Python until 4am, and then just type whatever comes into your head,
meddle not in the affairs of ficcers for you are malleable and easily .... O_o *stares* ooh is that a cookie?
Love your enemies - It will drive them nuts!
Crazy.... but in the nicest possible way....
To Stupidityyyyy - and beyond!
*after reading the latest gory/depressing "mainstream" comic* ....*sigh* that's it, I'm packin' up and moving back to the Eighties...
Love your enemies - It will drive them nuts!
Crazy.... but in the nicest possible way....
To Stupidityyyyy - and beyond!
*after reading the latest gory/depressing "mainstream" comic* ....*sigh* that's it, I'm packin' up and moving back to the Eighties...
Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
The DEM is what's predictable. What it is doesn't matter because I could see it coming from a mile away. It would have made for better reading, for me, if the DEM were the last resort instead of the only option. I would be surprised if they made it to the end without using a DEM.Ult_Sm86 wrote:I'm not impressed per say, but I'm intrigued at the twists and turns it has taken. And I really want to see what rabbit they pull out of their hats, being they'd be stupid to do something predictable. Which,... ou seem bent on assuming they are going to.
That explains it! You've gone wonky in the head from lack of nutrition.kladyelf wrote:I'm on a diet, you don't want that
mind you, to achieve a case of affable lunacy eat a packet of something sugary, watch Monty Python until 4am, and then just type whatever comes into your head,
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
How upset will you be then, if they don't use a D.E.M.?
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Anyone know why Jubalee seems to be the only X-Mutant to hate being a normal human, yet the other Millions don't mind?
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Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?
Who said they don't mind?
I'd think getting High-Tech super suits or genuinely being active still in the "supers-world" is pretty evident they want to use their experiences to better the world.
I think that makes them equally heroic, maybe Beak can take a lesson. He never really did anything exceptional, maybe as a powerless person he can share his past transgressions as an X-....Student, with the rest of the world.
I'd think getting High-Tech super suits or genuinely being active still in the "supers-world" is pretty evident they want to use their experiences to better the world.
I think that makes them equally heroic, maybe Beak can take a lesson. He never really did anything exceptional, maybe as a powerless person he can share his past transgressions as an X-....Student, with the rest of the world.
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