Anyone else think that the Decimation should be retconned?

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:02 pm

Was it in an X-book, or another book that no-one knows the name of?

Post by **Freak** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:08 pm

Blob55 wrote:Was it in an X-book, or another book that no-one knows the name of?

Depowered mutants have been shown a few times, most prominently in the relaunched New Warriors, where they were active as heroes with technology.

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:13 pm

I really like your enthusiasm Blob, but if you are really worried about this kind of stuff I suggest going to Marvel Comic News. You can easily find out everything that's happening, has happened, and is going to happen in the Marvel U as well as X-Books.

Also, I suggesting finding their character wiki. Any of these mutants who you are worried about (such as Beak?) probably have bio's on there.

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:10 am

I don't think it says what Beak is currently doing, or if he's using the Mech costume from the New Warriors. It doesn't even say what his job is, or if he even has one.
BTW, how'd he get so buff in such a short time?

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:20 am

Well, mostly because no one has written about him. He had a pretty quick cult following, a small group of supporters, but of that group of mutants introduced, he was definitely NOT the highest rated, so no one really complained when he faded away.

I'm sure, at some point, some writer who is a Beak fan will bring him back.

Wahnsinn · Post by **Wahnsinn** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:12 am

I think it was a desperately needed attempt to downsize a way too-large breed of people.

Sixteen million, which is approximately how many mutants there were before Decimation, out of six billion isn't a very large group. That's 0.267% of the world's population, a tiny minority. To put that in perspective, 13.4 million Asian-Americans made up 4.4% of the US population in 2008.

On top of knocking the mutant population to an unsustainable level of 200-300 individuals worldwide, the X-gene could no longer be passed. (That's what makes Hope so special.) That means that the current generation of mutants is guaranteed to be the last. If the last remaining immortal/long-lived mutants were to be killed, the baseline humans have little reason to treat the remaining mutants as equals because most of them will be around for the extinction of the mutant race. Why bother hating and fearing what will be dead in your lifetime?

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:54 pm

Which is even more reason to let the Mutant Gene affect Random humans young.

BTW, I thought it was only 3 Million!!

Post by **Slarti** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:12 pm

Wahnsinn wrote:
On top of knocking the mutant population to an unsustainable level of 200-300 individuals worldwide, the X-gene could no longer be passed. (That's what makes Hope so special.) That means that the current generation of mutants is guaranteed to be the last. If the last remaining immortal/long-lived mutants were to be killed, the baseline humans have little reason to treat the remaining mutants as equals because most of them will be around for the extinction of the mutant race. Why bother hating and fearing what will be dead in your lifetime?

Whatever the "actual" number, what you've described there was of course the entire point of Decimation - to reduce the mutants to an endangered species. I still think it was a good idea considering that even if that's considered a small minority of the world population in the real world, we're not dealing with the real world. In the Marvel Universe mutants went from a feared minority to a minority that apparently was on damn near every street corner during Morrison's run. Eventually, when creators are just making up mutants to fill the background of a group shot to make the school look busy, that population becomes unsustainable from a creative viewpoint. There's no way you can develop all those characters, nor would you want to.

Thinning that herd was still a good idea, whether or not readers agree with the execution or the aftermath.

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:27 pm

The thing is, before the Decimation normal Humans had a reason to fear and kill mutants because there was easily enough of them to take over nations. But now that there are only about 300 in the whole world, there's no point in trying to kill them. They're a lot cause, and in the next ten years the rest will probably be killed, or the last 4 years need to be retconned. That or hope gains Super Mutant powers that somehow turns random babies into mutants or something.

Even if all of the Mutants in the world were to be apart of one team, they would only have enough power to take over the tiny country between France and Spain.

[Edited on 28/6/10 by Blob55]

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:37 pm

Are you kidding?

With a smaller population, those who actually hate mutants now have it easier! (Or so they think! Muahaha!)

I love that you can't wrap your mind around such hatred/bigot-minded people. I do. That's great. But that's no cause to say "Decimation" could/should not have happened. You have to understand that to FURTHER A STORY you need to create VIABLE ARCH NEMESIS and put your heroes in OVERWHELMING TYPES OF CRISES.

This means; sometimes to do that, facing annihilation and/or a genocide of an entire race (even if they are supers) is the best way to go about it. What's more unnerving than losing everyone?

Think of it like this, aren't you impressed that Bastion, Creed, & Co. have put together this massacre plan? I mean they have no real mutant abilities to speak of just technology, money, intel, and resources, and political persuasion. They're not even X-Gene'd, but here they are, wiping out what's left of the 200-300 Mutants left on this planet!

MUTANTS. And most of 'em are actually fighter-powers type mutants now too! No more lame ass "Beaks" or "Jell-O Type Dudes With A Brain" or other, honestly debilitating mutations.

These guys are STRONGER and MORE POWERFUL, yet the threat of annihilation is ever present in this series now! The odds they have to overcome, EMOTIONALLY and PHYSICALLY is more powerful now, with less mutants, than it even was back when all they did was stop OTHER mutants who happened to be terrorists! (Magneto!)

Another example of just how awesome dire-straights this whole scenario is! Look who's on their side! MAGNETO!
Mag-fucking-neto! Is AN X-MAN and by choice! He is helping to preserve his beloved race because it is essentially a Last stand! (Bad choice of words being X-3 was AWFUL).

Point-in-case is that with less mutants, you have more suspense, and you shave the fat (aka useless characters) and make room for the better ones.

Sorry your novelty love of Beak is scorned now, I am, but he was (in the long run) useless. As were many, many, many other creations by Grant during that time.

[Edited on 28/6/10 by Ult_Sm86]

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:45 pm

So you're basically saying that all of the current mutants should die in the next 1-5 years, but in an epic way.

So what's happening after the Mutants die? Mecha-Men?

[Edited on 28/6/10 by Blob55]

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:48 pm

What?
NO!

LMAO
How can you possibly get that out of what I said?? HA!

NO! I am saying that DECIMATION was a fantastic idea because now we're AFRAID of our characters being annihilated! It has added a heightened tension to the series-- a much needed tension!

Reread what I said and take another crack please LOL

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:50 pm

I thought you said that the Humans who hate mutants now have an eaiser job, and they get Macha guys to kill off the remaining mutants in bloody gory deaths.
So when the Mutants die, the Machas are the new saviors of humans or something...

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:51 pm

Nononono, i'm saying that they have it easier so aren't you scared?

HUH?!

Aren't you worried! I'm worried man! I really like these guys! I'm scared Bastion might actually pull this off!

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:54 pm

Yeah. I don't like how things are going, but I though you did!

Anyway, if things get too dire, and there only 20 something mutants left, they can combine forces with the Avengers, and the New Warriors or something. Maybe they can get mutants from other Universes?

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:00 pm

Blob, I would never wish mutliverse damage upon Marvel.

Poor DC. *tsk tsk*.
Making multiverses canon is a terrible decision.

Also; I do like how things are going! In the story. I mean, I'm pissed Kurt's dead, but the story isn't BAD! Do I want the badguys to win? 'Course not! But I am tense during the X-Men's plight in this series and some of the others since "Decimation and I feel had it not been for "Decimation" we would've missed out on a lot of good character development.

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:10 pm

I'm guessing the last 20 Mutants will be:
Cyclops
Madame Web
Storm
Wolverine
Emma Frost
Hope
Gambit
Arch Angel
Beast
Cable
Bishop
Ice Man
Rogue
Toad
Magneto
QuickSilver
Scarlet Witch
Xavier
Mystique
Havok

This excludes Mutates that were givin their abilities by other means: AKA Spider Bite, a Nuke ect...

But by then, I think that a lot of the De-powered mutants get Mecha suits from Stark/Shield. I'd like to see some techno based ex-mutants join the X-Men.

[Edited on 28/6/10 by Blob55]

[Edited on 28/6/10 by Blob55]

Post by **Slarti** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:14 pm

PS. Daredevil isn't a mutant.

And those given abilities by other means aren't mutants at all. They're mutates.

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:17 pm

Ok, I've fixed the Daredevil thing, since I had a fealing that he wasn't a mutant.

Post by **Freak** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:24 pm

Toad actually is a mixture. He started out as a guy who could jump nicely, then he got some experiments performed on him to increase his powers, and finally he was subjected with a secondary mutation.

So, taking Toad as an example, it was a good idea to have a decimation of the mutant population. Just too many mutants with all kinds of weird powers, everything too complicated. I mean, I liked the idea of mutant town, but that's one upside to oodles of downsides, one of them being everything spiraling out of control. There was basically a new mutant whenever there was any kind of new plot with the X-Men, and they barely ever got re-used.

Post by **Slarti** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:54 pm

Blob, as an additional post script to that message, while we frown upon people making extraneous posts for every little alteration to a post, generally when someone else has made a follow-up post addressing your comments you don’t edit the original post to change the meaning or content. Meaning, to be courteous to someone trying to come in and read our conversations, you shouldn’t remove Daredevil and change the word “mutant” to “mutate” just because I corrected you, because it confuses those later trying to read a linear conversation. I’ve noticed you have a habit of doing this, so please refrain in the future.

And just to make it clear, I’m one of the administrators of this forum.

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:22 pm

Ult, some people don't read superhero comics for suspense. Suspense in superhero comics is to me just what a dab of wasabi is to my sushi. The right amount is very nice and gives a bit of kick to something that's already very good. Too much, however, is painfully dreadful. And that's what it had come down to with Decimation and the way it was handled. With very few exceptions, I no longer looked forward to the X-books the way I used to. I began to regard finding out what happens next as more akin to being forced to eat wasabi straight.

There is also much more to storytelling than conflict, and ways to introduce conflict into a plot besides bashing the audience over the head with the knowledge that the characters are in ZOMG MORTAL PERIL!!! Otherwise, "The Perils of Pauline" would outrank Gone With the Wind, Casablanca, and Citizen Kane as a movie masterpiece.

I read superhero comics because I want to see the good guys win. I want to be confident that they will not only survive, but win. The suspense I like in superhero comics comes from wondering just what neat thing they'll do to save the day. But thesituation still has to be plausibly winnable.

I don't think the X-Men are in any such situation now, and only a Deus ex Machina can get them out of this one. That is not good storytelling.

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:33 am

Ult, some people don't read superhero comics for suspense.

So what do you read them for? The pecks?

Suspense in superhero comics is to me just what a dab of wasabi is to my sushi.

I hate sushi, ya lost me there sorry. :/

The right amount is very nice and gives a bit of kick to something that's already very good. Too much, however, is painfully dreadful.

So we should call up Mr. Austen then, maybe see if he's still free to write us some Sopa Opera scripted X-Plots? His artists didn't suck, they hated working for him. They felt bored 'casue they had nothing to draw but backgrounds and characters in dialogue. I swear to this, it's in Dan Slott's Formspring in a response.

And that's what it had come down to with Decimation and the way it was handled. With very few exceptions, I no longer looked forward to the X-books the way I used to. I began to regard finding out what happens next as more akin to being forced to eat wasabi straight.

Again with the sushi.
Also, you're saying you like bland food, so I'm assuming this means you like bland comics?
You should read "Blue Beetle" or "Plastic Man" in this case. I promise you, it's on par with eating Unsalted Saltines. Can't get much more bland than that.

Blob55 · Post by **Blob55** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:45 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:
Ult, some people don't read superhero comics for suspense.
So what do you read them for? The pecks?

Mmm...

Anyway, I guess in a way X-Men is like DBZ, when they have too many episodes of talk, then too many of Action. I wish they'd just combine the two together, since it gets bland after a while.

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 am

Blob55 wrote:
Ult_Sm86 wrote:
Ult, some people don't read superhero comics for suspense.
So what do you read them for? The pecks?
Mmm...

Anyway, I guess in a way X-Men is like DBZ, when they have too many episodes of talk, then too many of Action. I wish they'd just combine the two together, since it gets bland after a while.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. I like balance. Not blandness, and not overkill.