X-Men: 2nd Coming (SAY WHAAAA)

[Angelique]

Why wouldn't they try to make it a Catholic service. It's what Kurt would have wanted- oh, but begging pardon for expecting Kurt's funeral to be about him!

[neling4]

Why wouldn't they try to make it a Catholic service. It's what Kurt would have wanted- oh, but begging pardon for expecting Kurt's funeral to be about him!

I assume it was because there was no priest. I don't really know.

You are correct: Half the book was about Scott and Hope and a big happy get-together, not Kurt...or Logan as I had hoped. There was scarcely any reaction from Colossus either, and none from Kitty.

That wasn't right. If so much of the book hadn't been taken up with other stuff, it would have been a much better send-off for Kurt.

Now to concentrate on bringing him back.

[Ult_Sm86]

Well, also, as I pointed out in my satirical exchange, they did have to sort of rush the service. Doubts of Hope aside, they know they have very little functioning time before they're tracked again. A quick, but proper service, is called for.

Having Bobby (or Sam) read a random passage is pointless unless you explain that they don't know enough about the passages and maybe went with one that they knew Kurt enjoyed.

Also, cremating is obvious why they do that. Very.

Kill.
your.
hope.

They're not bringing him back THAT soon guys. Sorry.

[The Drastic Spastic]

Also, his (heroic) death should be the end of the story-arc. Its paroxysm.
Not the midlle of the show. Not something you throw out to regain the readers's interest.

I have to admit, this is the main reason I think he's coming back sooner than later. It was a largely meaningless way to go, and completely unnecessary to the story. It wasn't important here, so the logical conclusion it that it's a set-up for something in the future.

Unless the point really is just killing off all teleporters in which case....

[Elfdame]

three quick points from someone who admittedly doesn't keep up with MU:
1) Wasn't colussus cremated as well?
2) In "Quitting Time," he quits at the beginning and then ends up the jolly old X-man again at the end.
3) As for the funeral, trust me, if they respected his faith, they would have called a priest pronto, no matter how dangerous, at the same time that they were desperately trying to save his life. {Ang whispers in Elfdame's ear} oh, yeah -- scratch the Extreme Unction stuff. I guess the X-men felt the funeral is for the living (which is only half of the Catholic view, but I don't wanna start a religous firestorm here, so read that part quickly and move on) and they wanted to get their words in and confront their grief. And then forget the Elf.

[Ult_Sm86]

Yeah but I'm starting to think that's why they're killing him in the first place though.

How burdensome is the story now when the writer is committed to researching Catholicism to the tee everytime Kurt pops up? Getting a priest to that island is very-very-very unlikely.

I'm sorry, of all my problems with that issue, that one is not on the list. They did the best they could in a small amount of time. Makeshift Catholic wedding. They acknowledge it's not what he's would've wanted in a procedure, but I think they leave unsaid (possibly because of Fraction's terrible writing), that what he would have wanted is his friends to come together, even through their anger.

[Angelique]

I don't think it would be too hard to research the very basics of what would be needed for a Catholic funeral. I mean, it's not like the largest Christian denomination in the world is some reclusive sect of secretive hermits holed away in some remote corner of the world.

And all that would have made it an okay Catholic funeral is some indication that a priest was officiating. Getting a priest to that island is perfectly likely if the other characters had any genuine respect for Nightcrawler and his beliefs. Oh, and if they scatter Kurt's ashes, I'm calling flagrant disrespect for Kurt's faith and wishes. Cremation may be okay according to the Catholic Church, but scattering is a huge no-no.

[Edited on 6/5/2010 by Angelique]

[Ult_Sm86]

I don't buy it. There's no way to get a priest to a mutant island (titled "Utopia") that is on high-alert. No known Mutant-Friendly priest character is in existence in Marvel-U, and there's no way Scott would risk it.

Period.

It makes perfect sense, in all of Fraction's hysterical, idiotic, issue, that's the only thing Scott does that makes any genuine sense as a General of an endangered species. To get a Priest on that island would be suicide on his behalf. He has been stupidly risking the lives of all his friends and team mates and those risks cost him Kurt. He is going to act as best he can, as the man who called himself a friend to Kurt (believe me I call that a lie too), and the man who trained him to become an X-Man, he probably will regret the decision to have a botched, rushed, quasi-Catholic funeral, but he is going to do the best he can.
Also, at the end of the day, it's still a comic.

[The Drastic Spastic]

It wouldn't occur to a normal person that cremation might be a problem.

Even with that, writers might be able to research all this stuff, but I don't see any writers at the funeral. It's a group of warriors honouring a dead comrade the best way they know how during a short break in the battle. I think they can be forgiven for their first impulse not being to do an intensive Google search to see what the Pope has to say about cremation.

I don't think Scott will regret half-assing the funeral. Not being a regular reader of this forum, he probably will never realize how wrong he was about everything ever.

[Angelique]

I do think that given that these people are supposedly warriors, they'd have their wishes known on certain matters like what kind of services they'd want if they encounter certain occupational hazards.

It's not just so the military can accommodate the religious beliefs of the living that they ask certain questions of new recruits, after all. It's also not as if Kurt made some huge secret of his faith, and that it's all that hard to find out.

For Cyclops to fudge a funeral for a supposed friend is disrespectful to Nightcrawler. For Fraction to fudge on that is disrespectful to Nightcrawler, fans of Nightcrawler, and Catholic readers.

[Ult_Sm86]

Not if they're trying to shake out the religious undertones.

Also, I'll excuse a fudging of a funeral procedure. First off, they're not U.S. Armed forces, they're rogue mutants, "enemies" of the Human Race, and considered, by many many many groups in the Marvel U, to be terrorists. I'm sure the last thing Kurt has considered himself, ever, is a military man, and thus would have had no military-like procedure for his burial even remotely planned.

Also, I don't think he was planning on dying any time soon. He's gotta be what, his early 30's?

[kladyelf]

They cremate him?! oye...

and surely there is someone else who can act as a lay preacher on the island, it wasn't all doing that job, surely...

Oh, i saw this on Facebook ....

http://www.facebook.com/notes/marvel/ev ... 6069458499

see the title? *facepalm* guh

[Wahnsinn]

In the slow-aging land of the Marvel Universe, Kurt's probably between 25 and 30. If that.

I don't have the issue yet--I get my comics on the weekend--but will also give them a pass on not having a proper Catholic funeral. After all, how many funerals take place less than 24 hours after the death? Frankly, I think it would have made infinitely more sense for them to stash his body in the morgue until the end of the fight with Bastion. A resolution to kick Kurt's killer's keister before coming up with some grand plan and executing it would have been quite poignant. After their inevitable success, they could come back and have a proper funeral for their fallen friend (if he's not back from the dead before the end of it all).

[neling4]

Kurt is still in his twenties.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/marvel/ev ... 6069458499

Did anyone else click on the view original post link? It takes you to Marvel.com



[Edited on 6/5/10 by neling4]

[Angelique]

So "Everyone Loves Second Coming"? I guess that makes me a nobody.

Killing Kurt was a bad idea from the get-go. Trying to downplay his religion (and refusing to give him a Catholic funeral is much more than just downplaying it- it's a statement that either nobody cares or that he's rejected it) is also a dumb idea. I mean, does Marvel really need to further offend and alienate readers?

Just like trying to write out Magneto's Jewish heritage is anti-Semitic, trying to write out Nightcrawler's Catholicism (which even if it wasn't what Dave originally intended, is an established part of his character that a lot of readers like and find relatable) is disrespectful to Catholics.

And then telling us that "everybody loves" this is an insult to Nightcrawler, to Dave's legacy, and to those of us who are not enjoying this.

[neling4]

I guess I'm a nobody too.

[Jeremus]

I agree with Wahnsinn. Why didn't they keep his body until later when they had time to perform a proper funeral? It just seems that all this second coming stuff is happening now! now! now! and they really wouldn't have time to have even a memorial service, much less a funeral.

I also think that given his religious beliefs, out of respect for him, they should have had a basic Catholic funeral. If they'd been on another planet and were running out of air or something, I could see them putting him in the ground and saying a little something and leaving. But, if they had time for a funeral, they had time to find a priest. (What about using a teleporter to pop on over to the mainland and shanghai one? Wouldn't take 15 minutes.)

[Ult_Sm86]

Has anyone stopped to think maybe the funeral was shit on PURPOSE???

Maybe the writers DO KNOW about catholic procedures, and my predictions of him landing in Limbo were accurate, and now he's gonna sit in wait in Marvel U's Purgatory for someone to come and fix this? And in that time, how much you want to bet he gets to use the Soul Sword? And hang out with Magik? And Biggie?

I ask because I'm atheist and before that baptist, but can a botched Catholic funeral send you to Limbo? I doubt it would send a soul to hell, Catholics can't be THAT spiteful, can they?

It seems to me like the funeral is a chump for a reason. I expect Logan will have words to say about it also when this is all said and done, and I wouldn't be surprised if this entire event was pulled together to make Xavier finally "stand" up to Scott and remind him and all his students they have drastically lost their way, and I bet he uses Kurt's death and funeral as evidence. Let this storyline FINISH, please. I hate it too, but we're focusing on the completely wrong point.

How about focusing on the fact that now they're screwed because they're down essentially 3 teleporters and they all were forced to congregate on one island to bury a fallen friend? They're in a serious corner now, how do they get out? How can any of these idiots at Marvel possibly write them out of this corner without pulling a massive Deus Ex Machina?

[Angelique]

I think we'll need a separate thread for exactly what was wrong with the funeral, but suffice to say, Kurt wouldn't be hanging around with Magic and wielding any Soulsword just because his friends couldn't be bothered to give him the right kind of funeral.

A Mass for Christian burial would be a lot nicer for Iceman, too, as he could leave it all up to the priest and not find himself shoehorned into the extremely awkward role of an unordained minister/rabbi (his mom was Jewish after all) officiating at a Catholic's funeral, but I digress.

As for Kurt's death being a catalyst for Xavier finally standing up to Cyclops- well, they might as well have carved him up and stuffed him in Xavier's refrigerator if that's the case.
And I do believe Cyclops trusts Hope will be his own deus ex machina. The story line will finsih, but without me reading.

[neling4]

I will not be reading it either. They completely lost me with the death of Kurt.

I will pick up one or two other issues featuring Kurt, like the Wolverine: Weapon X Requiem issue, then Mr. Claremont's Forever series will be all I read.







[Edited on 7/5/10 by neling4]

[Wahnsinn]

How about focusing on the fact that now they're screwed because they're down essentially 3 teleporters and they all were forced to congregate on one island to bury a fallen friend? They're in a serious corner now, how do they get out? How can any of these idiots at Marvel possibly write them out of this corner without pulling a massive Deus Ex Machina?

Yep, they're down to Pixie. In his grand wisdom, Scott is immediately sending her off to help retrieve Illyana. No more teleporters!
They have jets. That's how they get out. Jets. And Atlanteans. Surely, they can assist with water transport?

What the frag was Scott thinking when he thought Utopia was the thing to do? Yes, putting large numbers of mutants on rocks has worked so well in the past. I give you Asteroid M, Asteroid M 2, and Genosha!

Oh, you know there'll be a deus ex machina. The best they can do is make it be somebody/something we don't expect. Of course, they seem to like telegraphing their moves months in advance. I'll gladly eat crow if it's not Hope. I'll be even happier if it turns out to be Kurt kicking Bastion's arse from within.

[Ult_Sm86]

Yep, they're down to Pixie. In his grand wisdom, Scott is immediately sending her off to help retrieve Illyana. No more teleporters!

They have Vanisher and--technically, if she's even still around?--Layla Miller who, aside from Kurt, is the most powerful teleporter ever. She teleports between universes. She also has the ability to further a dried up plot and move things along.

[neling4]

Don't forget Cloak. I assume they still have him too.

[Ult_Sm86]

He doesn't count as a mutant. His powers came and his mutation never actually manifested.

THough if they're going to take in Count Jubilee, Blade, and Spidey, I suppose their standards will drop finally.

[Angelique]

Cloak left, leaving a giant plot hole in his wake. And if the previews for the next New Mutants are any indication, spoiler....






















Doesn't look like Vanisher will make it.

[Edited on 7/5/2010 by Angelique]