X-Men: 2nd Coming (SAY WHAAAA)

neling4 · Post by **neling4** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:56 pm

Jeremus wrote: If I get flowers, I'll let ya'll know. I did get a letter last time, but I was one of the last ones. I'm sorry you didn't get one Neling. I'm suprised they didn't get yours in the mail first thing!

Well, maybe it's because I ran out of stamps and only sent one to Axel Alonso, who seems only interested in hyping Cyclops the Great.

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:55 pm

Jeremus wrote:I agree with pretty much everything you said. I guess it's the anti-hero that sells.....not the old-timey hero. And a real hero is exactly what the world needs right now (IMHO).

Most of my favorites get killed. John Locke was killed and is now the Smoke Monster:( I don't want Kurt to come back "wrong" (a la Pet Semetary) either.

If I get flowers, I'll let ya'll know. I did get a letter last time, but I was one of the last ones. I'm sorry you didn't get one Neling. I'm suprised they didn't get yours in the mail first thing!

Yes, the world does indeed need more superheroes.

By the way, did anyone here about a Good Samaritan in New York? He tried to protect a would-be crime victim, was stabbed in the process, and then died with a whole bunch of people standing around doing nothing to help. True story I heard on the radio today.

So maybe everyone standing around doing nothing to help or at least keep the air and blood circulating was in fact realistic. But it was not what any hero would do.

On a different note, I got no flowers, but I did very politely bring up some of my concerns with Chris Yost and have received some nice messages in return including a sincere admission of his own part in the decision and his regrets. Better than flowers, and much more personal and sincere, in my opinion.

Elfdame · Post by **Elfdame** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:00 pm

Hooray for Ang! Good to hear that you have had intelligent communications with The Powers That Be.

neling4 · Post by **neling4** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:06 pm

Angelique wrote:

On a different note, I got no flowers, but I did very politely bring up some of my concerns with Chris Yost and have received some nice messages in return including a sincere admission of his own part in the decision and his regrets. Better than flowers, and much more personal and sincere, in my opinion.

So, what was the reasoning behind the death of Nightcrawler?

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:52 pm

neling4 wrote:
Angelique wrote:

On a different note, I got no flowers, but I did very politely bring up some of my concerns with Chris Yost and have received some nice messages in return including a sincere admission of his own part in the decision and his regrets. Better than flowers, and much more personal and sincere, in my opinion.
So, what was the reasoning behind the death of Nightcrawler?

I didn't ask and don't really want to know. All he said was it was something they all unfortunately agreed "had to happen." I will not be reading the rest of the arc and so will not be in much position to judge, but I respectfully disagree with him on this.

I think unfortunately I might have given him a bit of an "oh crap" moment when I mentioned that one of my test scenarios in EMT class was a chest impalement....

neling4 · Post by **neling4** » Sat May 01, 2010 12:24 am

I would really like to know why they felt it, "Had to happen."

I'm sure it has something to do with making "Scott the Magnificent" live up to his reputation as a superb dicta...I mean...leader.

Okay, here we go. I had forgotten about this:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=24962

I just found this one:

http://comics.ign.com/articles/108/1087189p1.html

But the most important thing is the story and getting it into as many hands as possible. In this day and age, it's never a guarantee that the people who like to read these things will read them. I'll give you an example. Deadly Genesis. When we started advertising the series we didn't say anything about Vulcan being the third Summers brother, and the sales figures were terrible. This was a huge story for us, and it wasn't being reached by the same audience as the other big X-Men stories at the time. So we made it known that the third Summers brother was in the story, spoiling a major and awesome reveal. But it's more important for us to have more people read something even if they know what's coming to having a lot fewer people reading and those people being surprised. That was part of the reason we worked so hard to let people know an X-Man was dying – an important X-Man

It's all about the money!

At you, Marvel!

http://i43.tinypic.com/1z4j3fq.png

[Edited on 1/5/10 by neling4]

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Sat May 01, 2010 2:18 am

I was going to say if the writers hated having to do this, besides contractual obligations or what have you, why?

I mean, it's not as if any book I've written won't involve killing off characters I like. It's not as if I don't understand. But it is possible to do all that in a way you don't hate or end up regretting. In this case, I would not have minded as much if someone even bothered to treat the injuries and get a qualified doctor to pronounce him dead rather than just stand around and not even check his pulse before assuming he's a goner.

neling4 · Post by **neling4** » Sat May 01, 2010 3:00 am

Previews for next weeks Hellbound:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... disp=table

The good news: Colossus gives Scott what he deserves.

The bad news: Colossus stops giving Scott what he deserves.

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Sat May 01, 2010 3:07 am

Who else would want to go to Limbo to get her??

......The only person I can think of... is Nightcrawler....

Trigger · Post by **Trigger** » Sat May 01, 2010 3:16 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:Who else would want to go to Limbo to get her??.

Possibly Kitty, even though she's pretty useless right now.

neling4 · Post by **neling4** » Sat May 01, 2010 3:16 am

That flower bouquet got me to wondering why Axel Alonso/Marvel didn't even give me the courtesy of a response?

They killed off Nightcrawler to increase sales, and they had this planned long before our B.A.A.D.D. campaign.

I'm feeling pretty crabby right now, and my opinion of Marvel has sunk to a new low.

Ult_Sm86 wrote:Who else would want to go to Limbo to get her??

......The only person I can think of... is Nightcrawler....

Cannonball and his team. For some reason, Gambit is there too.

[Edited on 1/5/10 by neling4]

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:09 pm

WHAT??? Why?? That's silly.

Though, again, I know the catholic fans here are very sure he won't show up.... I'm pretty sure Kurt is going to risk his religion to help them find her in Limbo. And maybe thus find a way back.

Or, they'll find a way to help him IN limbo.

Trigger · Post by **Trigger** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:45 pm

As much as I'd like to believe that he's coming back that quickly, I highly doubt it.

It doesn't make sense to kill him in one issue, and than in the same week in which his funeral is being held, bring him back.

[Edited on 1/5/10 by Trigger]

Jeremus · Post by **Jeremus** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:15 pm

neling4 wrote:
They killed off Nightcrawler to increase sales, and they had this planned long before our B.A.A.D.D. campaign.

That means that when they were advertising "Quitting Time", they already knew they were going to kill him off. They kept alluding to the idea that Nightcrawler might not be with the Xmen anymore.....jerking us around like that. I'm wondering if maybe they were really just wanting to see how much backlash they would get if they did get rid of him.

I know we posted a lot to Joe Q and Marvel around that time....but we didn't write letters like we did for the retcon. Now I'm feeling guilty that maybe if we had, they'd have gotten the message and maybe they would have had second thoughts.....

But then, if they were only interested in money, then nothing we could have said or written would have mattered.....

The only good thing about them being only interested in money is if they can get a lot of it by bringing him back, they will. But I wouldn't think they'd do it in less than (at least) a year.
(Ugh....I'm making myself depressed again.

)

[Edited on 01/19/09 by Jeremus]

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:42 pm

Trigger wrote:As much as I'd like to believe that he's coming back that quickly, I highly doubt it.

It doesn't make sense to kill him in one issue, and than in the same week in which his funeral is being held, bring him back.

[Edited on 1/5/10 by Trigger]

Au contraire, I would find this really enjoyable.

Xavier : and rest in peace, our friend, dear teamate. May you find salvation in a much, muc better place.

Wolverine, almost crying : Amen to that, bub.

Suddely, BAMF ! Kurt teleports from his closed coffin.

Nightcrawler : Mein Gott ! Why these long faces, meine Freunden ? Are we burying someone ?

Then, Shadowcat shouts "Elf ! You're bck !", Colossus applauds, Cyclops faints, Storm makes the clouds and the sad rain go away, the sun shines... and Logan really burst into tears this time.

[Edited on 1-5-2010 by Diablo]

neling4 · Post by **neling4** » Sat May 01, 2010 6:21 pm

Cyclops faints?

I hope the floor is really hard or he's close to a cliff.

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Sat May 01, 2010 6:51 pm

Logan starts bawling and Emma gives him a hug.

WORLD.
COLLAPSES.

Dedicatedfollower467 · Sat May 01, 2010 11:17 pm

You guys just made my day with the back-and-forth of Nightcrawler's "funeral!"

Thanks!

My friend at the comic book store and I were talking the other day about how to bring him back. We decided the best way would be if God basically said to him, "This wasn't your time, you were doing too much good, and I'm sending you back."

But then I realized that, to bring him back, Marvel either has to make Nightcrawler WRONG about his faith (i.e. going to Limbo), make him a demon, or acknowledge God or a god-like being exists.

... Unfortunately I'm thinking Limbo is going to be the most likely choice.

P.S. Just read the preview for Hellbound #1. PUNCH HIM HARDER COLOSSUS!!!!!

[Edited on 5/1/10 by Dedicatedfollower467]

neling4 · Post by **neling4** » Sun May 02, 2010 12:49 am

Judging by your letter, it sounds like they plan to make him a demon.

By the way, did you call the flower shop to ask who sent the flowers?

[Edited on 3/5/10 by neling4]

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Sun May 02, 2010 1:37 am

They'll find another way to around it Dedicated Flower, don't worry.

Dedicatedfollower467 · Sun May 02, 2010 1:58 am

neling4 wrote:Judging by your letter, it sounds like they plan to make him a demon.

By the way, did you call the flower shop to ask who sent the flowers?

[Edited on 2/5/10 by neling4]

Not yet.

: It's been a little crazy around here!

(edited cuz I always mess up the smileys!!!!! >.<)

[Edited on 5/2/10 by Dedicatedfollower467]

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Sun May 02, 2010 2:27 am

Dedicatedfollower467 wrote:We decided the best way would be if God basically said to him, "This wasn't your time, you were doing too much good, and I'm sending you back."

But then I realized that, to bring him back, Marvel either has to make Nightcrawler WRONG about his faith (i.e. going to Limbo), make him a demon, or acknowledge God or a god-like being exists.

... Unfortunately I'm thinking Limbo is going to be the most likely choice.

I'm trying to figure out what the heck you are talking about. It's like you're speaking a foreign language I'm passingly familiar with. I recognize individual words, but I can't figure out the overall meaning. How would there being no God make him go to Limbo? If there is no God, then Limbo is just a magical dimension and not where people go when they die. Actually it is that anyway, whether "Biblical Limbo" exists or not in the MU, so what exactly are you going on about?

Ult_Sm86 wrote:WHAT??? Why?? That's silly.

Though, again, I know the catholic fans here are very sure he won't show up.... I'm pretty sure Kurt is going to risk his religion to help them find her in Limbo. And maybe thus find a way back.

Or, they'll find a way to help him IN limbo.

WTF. Why would people think he's in Limbo, or could somehow choose to go there? He's dead. Has anyone who died in the Marvel U ever been spotted in Limbo after the fact? Hmm? HMM?? I think you are confusing your mythologies!

It's pretty obvious what's going on here. Combining the mythology of the MU with real life religion is impossibly complicated, and not fun.

OMG you can't become a Catholic priest in six months!!!

OMG real Catholics don't even believe in the Rapture!!!

OMG a real Catholic would shun Dr Strange as a heretic!!!

Enough. You don't see anyone whining because it actually isn't possible to travel through time and they must do better research as stretching the truth about the facts of science for the sake of a story is personally offensive. I've got my fingers crossed that this is what is behind it and whether he comes back or not, Marvel is finally Done With This Shit.

In conclusion, it is all Chris Claremont's fault.

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Sun May 02, 2010 2:42 am

1) I was never EVER saying I agreed with anything they had said about Limbo, Drastic Troller,er spastic, sorry.

I was, in fact, disagreeing. Being I am a STRICT atheist. And yeah, why WOULDN'T he show up in Limbo? It seems like a perfectly plausible way to keep his religion in tact (he'd be upset about it) while bringing him back (having Magik tell him he was there for her or some ninnynoggins nonsense of that sort.)

2) You make a point differentiating Marvel U's Limbo from Biblical Limbo, and I agree there is a difference--and have said so before in this very site--which is why I believe, should they choose to bring him back, they will use the "demon" aspect of his origins and use that as a way to revive him. I don't see why you have to be so snippy about it. I agree that the religious aspect of Kurt has gone on for far too long and has bogged down his character. Most people her might even agree with you, but at the end of the day, he died saying a prayer, he lived for however long as a man of religious intent, and they gained a lot of fans doing that. To shake that COMPLETELY would be a mistake. Their best bet is to shake the nonsense, the stuff you have just ranted about above.
I agree that the writers need to tone down the religion and I think that's what this death is for. Bring him back from MARVEL U LIMBO would force him to re-analyze his beliefs and maybe tone them down.

Post by **Slarti** » Sun May 02, 2010 3:55 am

Stop the antagonism. Everyone. Now.

Dedicatedfollower467 · Sun May 02, 2010 4:16 am

I'm going to try to say this as politely as possible.

Frankly, Nightcrawler's religion was one of the things I liked most about him. I can understand if a lot of you don't necessarily like that (I know it wasn't a part of the character originally) but I found it something I could relate to. I felt (and still feel) like his religion was an important part. It would make me incredibly sad (and very mad) if Kurt gave up his beliefs for any reason.

Okay, so maybe I'm over-analyzing and overreacting to the whole Limbo thing (I never liked the concept -- could they tone down on the occult/demon stuff?) but I'd be really upset if they did ANYTHING to contradict his beliefs. It's one of the main reasons why I hate the whole death-and-resurrection thing -- where exactly have these characters gone while they were dead? Were they just "not there?" Were they having "out of body" experiences? It confuses me, and because I don't know where they go or how they exist when they "die," it worries me how Kurt will react to the whole thing if/when he comes back.

And I'm afraid I probably wasn't very coherent in my earlier post because I was ranting. Sorry.