Gail Simone about female friendships in comics

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Gail Simone about female friendships in comics

Post by Freak » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:45 pm

So, this: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/sh ... stcount=41

What's your opinion on this?

Personally, I think the problem is that men (and therefore male comic writers) generally have no idea about female friendships, as those tend to be more complicated than male ones (or it only seems that way for most men :shifty). Can't write well what you have no idea about.
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Gail Simone about female friendships in comics

Post by neling4 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:57 pm

I completely agree, with both the article and your assessment of the reason. This is why female friendships in comics are so boring and uninteresting. Another problem is that the writers have no idea how to write a realistic female character to begin with.
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Post by Elfdame » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:38 pm

Not to be b*tchy, but ... yeah.

I've felt for a L-O-N-G time that women in fiction (tv, movies, comics) were simply excuses to fill in a tight-fitting costume. And even in fluffy books I enjoyed, let's say, Mary Higgins Clark, I got bored really fast with the way her protagonists were always prowling for men.

As I NEVER tire of telling my stepdaughters (and grandgirls): "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." I was a complete person before I married Hubby. I'm just, um, completer with him. :shifty Fictional women should have real lives outside of trying to be fulfilled by belonging to some male (as in, some male, any male).

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Gail Simone about female friendships in comics

Post by neling4 » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:35 pm

Oh! Oh! Elfdame! I just had a BRILLIANT idea! Just imagine yourself in a skin-tight Spiderman suit, and me in Nightcrawler's suit, or maybe Wolverine's, since I can get snickety sometimes, and Feral Female as Deadpool (or we could fight over Wolvie), and we form a little old lady do-gooder team.

Maybe Paty would join us in a Magneto suit?

Real women doing real stuff. ;)

Do you think we could sell that idea to Marvel as a comic book?

Hey, they're doing Zombies.




Let's nosh.


[Edited on 5/8/09 by neling4]
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Post by Elfdame » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:57 am

Lots of people think I *am* a zombie.

Paty would certainly be useful for any @$$-kicking scenes ... I could do the comic relief ("me and my big mouth" stuff) ... Ang handles the swordfighting ... yeah, and we have this whole market of Boomer Women who want something to read while the grandkids are at soccer practice.

But NO WAY we gonna have Grammaw in a skin-tight anything. Unless I go as Frederica Dukes. *snicker*

I'll have my agent do lunch with your agent. Burger King okay?
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Gail Simone about female friendships in comics

Post by neling4 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:28 am

:LOL





I meant in a comic book.

Doesn't Marvel have a primate series also, with apes, orangutans, etc? Why not a little old lady team? I think it has potential to be hilarious.

I prefer Wendy's. I'll have my agent call your agent.
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Gail Simone about female friendships in comics

Post by steyn » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:27 am

What Marvel needs is a desperate Housewives meets Sex and the City bunch of gal superheroes :cracked

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Post by neling4 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:26 pm

Those women aren't realistic either, at least not in my world. They all look like models and aren't they all after men, or romance?

Comic books need some middle-aged old lady characters like Aunt May or Miss Emelia Witherspoon, the clairvoyant in Excalibur #44.
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Post by Elfdame » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:32 pm

In one of the Spidey ones -- I forget, not Marvel Adventures but maybe during Civil War??? -- there were a coupla vignettes with May volunteering at a homeless shelter and NOT getting bamboozled by some of the schemers there.

LOVED it.
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Post by Nandireya » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:26 am

neling4 wrote:Comic books need some middle-aged old lady characters like Aunt May or Miss Emelia Witherspoon, the clairvoyant in Excalibur #44.
She was kinda after Kurt though...

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Post by LIV4TheObsession » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:32 pm

I dunno....Maybe Marvel should (gasp) acctualy hire some female writers?! Some different view points could really make the stories more interesting.
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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:22 pm

:surprise female writers??? You're joking, right?

Lol... I think it would be nice to have a few females who actually MADE SENSE without being tacked onto a male. Kitty is often associated with Piotr cuz she had a crush on him right off the bat, Rogue is associated with either Gambit or Magneto, Storm used to be great, now she's the Black Panther's trophy widow, Jean will always be connected to Scott... or is it the other way around? Lol. Same with Maddie.

The few non-male-connected females we have are naturally bad guys... Rogue before she went good, Mystique (and even then she is often associated with Magneto), and Emma before she started up with Scott.

Because all the females in so many comics are defined by their relationship to a male, be it a love life, a friendship, or even a father-to-daughter thing, females are never allowed to shine without a male.

Apparently behind every great comic book woman... is an even greater comic book man.
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Gail Simone about female friendships in comics

Post by neling4 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:57 pm

Nandireya wrote:
neling4 wrote:Comic books need some middle-aged old lady characters like Aunt May or Miss Emelia Witherspoon, the clairvoyant in Excalibur #44.
She was kinda after Kurt though...

"May I be permitted to touch your fur?" :naughty
She was based on me.
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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 » Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:57 pm

neling4 wrote:
Nandireya wrote:
neling4 wrote:Comic books need some middle-aged old lady characters like Aunt May or Miss Emelia Witherspoon, the clairvoyant in Excalibur #44.
She was kinda after Kurt though...

"May I be permitted to touch your fur?" :naughty
She was based on me.
Who wouldn't want a chance to pet NC's fur???

Mmmmm... fuzzy.... :LOL
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Post by Nandireya » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:10 am

And who wouldn't want to go after Kurt? The REAL Kurt...not this current, angsty imposter!
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Post by Angelique » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:09 pm

Isn't this just like 'Scrawlers. A discussion on female friendships in comics turns into one about Kurt. (At least this one isn't about his butt!)
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Post by neling4 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:16 pm

...speaking of Kurt's derriere........
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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:31 pm

Isn't this just like 'Scrawlers. A discussion on female friendships in comics turns into one about Kurt.
Well, we are mostly rabid Kurt fanatics here. And we could always tie it in to my point that girls aren't allowed to shine without a guy. How many females has Kurt's gigantic shadow enveloped?
...speaking of Kurt's derriere........
Mmmmm... fuzzy....

:LOL
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Post by Angelique » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:43 am

I'm working on a couple of comics in which the roles are very much reversed. The men are more defined by who they like than the women, and in a few instances, the women may overshadow the men- even when the story is from a male POV.
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Post by neling4 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:23 pm

Angelique wrote:I'm working on a couple of comics in which the roles are very much reversed. The men are more defined by who they like than the women, and in a few instances, the women may overshadow the men- even when the story is from a male POV.
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Gail Simone about female friendships in comics

Post by The Drastic Spastic » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:49 am

Dedicatedfollower467 wrote:
Isn't this just like 'Scrawlers. A discussion on female friendships in comics turns into one about Kurt.
Well, we are mostly rabid Kurt fanatics here. And we could always tie it in to my point that girls aren't allowed to shine without a guy. How many females has Kurt's gigantic shadow enveloped?
I can't think of any. Probably cause they always leave him for personal reasons, stuff that is more important to them than their relationship with Kurt. Amanda left to run Limbo, Cerise left to pay off her space debt to society. (That's it? Who am I missing?) Aside from them he's only had flirtations with teammates, which is not enough to cast a shadow.
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Post by Freak » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:56 pm

The Drastic Spastic wrote:
Dedicatedfollower467 wrote:
Isn't this just like 'Scrawlers. A discussion on female friendships in comics turns into one about Kurt.
Well, we are mostly rabid Kurt fanatics here. And we could always tie it in to my point that girls aren't allowed to shine without a guy. How many females has Kurt's gigantic shadow enveloped?
I can't think of any. Probably cause they always leave him for personal reasons, stuff that is more important to them than their relationship with Kurt. Amanda left to run Limbo, Cerise left to pay off her space debt to society. (That's it? Who am I missing?) Aside from them he's only had flirtations with teammates, which is not enough to cast a shadow.
He had something going with the nightschift nurse for a while.
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this kinda makes my point

Post by Elfdame » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:38 pm

Warning - this contains spoilers if you are not familiar with Spidey stuff circa couple years ago.

Is also slightly off-topic, but it does deal with how women are portrayed in comics. Even if it's a straight-male:straight-female friendship. Sorta.

I stay behind the times and check out Marvel stuff from library, so am only now getting around to reading the FNSM "Back In Black" series. (Already read some of the One More Piece O'Crap and Brand New Crock O'Crap and some of the Peter Parker Back In Black series).

So here we are, my beloved JM Straczynski writing some great stories, good art that I can actually understand ... but the COVER TO ISSUE 21 has my blood boiling.

I'm certain that Mssrs Nauk and Stull did not intend to end up with a little old granny's blood boiling. It would seem they were aiming for a different blood-boiling effect with folk a lot younger and a lot more male.

So here we go: Imagegood ol' Betty in trouble

Now, I realize it's pretty mild as covers go. Spidey is all muscle-bound and stuff. Uh-huh, fine. But, here's Miss Brant with jugs big enough to feed triplets,(allow me the hyperbole) pius her clothes are torn. Yup, people love that: a helpless female in ripped clothing tight around the chest. Fine.


*
*
*
*
S
p
o
i
l
e
r
s


s
t
a
r
t

*
*
*

Okay, so I read the issue -- and enjoy it -- but WHO is the helpless person in the bad-spider's web? Hulking phys ed guy Flash Thompson! Wuzzup wid dat? I mean, puh-leez, here's my gal Betty whompin up on the bad-spider like Van Helsing in a D-cup while the dumb blond hangs out as comic relief (and potential snack/incubator).

Yes, I am overly-sensitive about all my feminist stuff. But I think I have *reason* to be so in this case. Covers often almost-misrepresent the stories inside, and it's not so bad b/c they don't want to give away the twists and surprises. (like the cover to -- blech -- Ultimate X-men Annual #2) Fine. But couldn't they have shown a GUY in the web, maybe face turned away or webbed up or shadowed by the honkin' black spider? Or Spidey in the web?

End of rant. Thanks, I feel much better now.
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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:16 pm

What I thought was incredibly interesting was when I went to the Science Fiction museum in Seattle. Used to be comics were a big medium for sci-fi. What's hilarious and annoying about it is that every cover involves a scanitly dressed woman who has a chest the size of Jupiter, unconscious or screaming in the arms of some frightening, hideous, disgusting creature, being chased by some handsome man (with his helmet off) in a tight-fitting space suit.

From the beginning of time, females have been the "damsels in distress" for comics. Unless you're a villainess or Wonder Woman. And even she looks like she's got two soccer balls connected to her upper body.
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Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.

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Gail Simone about female friendships in comics

Post by LIV4TheObsession » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:59 pm

Dedicatedfollower467 wrote:From the beginning of time, females have been the "damsels in distress" for comics. Unless you're a villainess or Wonder Woman. And even she looks like she's got two soccer balls connected to her upper body.
Acctually, Wonder Woman is one of the characters that gets female fans pretty pissed off. When DC first created the character, she hated men because whenever her wrist gauntlets were bound together by a man, she would have to obey his every comand. Sound like S&M? Yeah.
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